# Do some gay people \*really\* say this??? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [February 12, 2004, 12:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-some-gay-people-really-say-this/228759 "2004-02-12T00:46:58Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Leaper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/4bbf92/32.png) [@Leaper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaper)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2004, 12:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-some-gay-people-really-say-this/228759/1 "2004-02-12T00:46:58Z")
I just read this blog entry where the writer doubts that homosexuality is innate. He says that he’s “got 35 years of experience living in the gay dominated communities of San Francisco and New York City,” and during that time, people have said the following to him: > [@](#): > > My gay friends drop the innate theory when they’ve tried to seduce me. They tell me that I’m a fool not to turn gay. Gay men are smarter, they say, because they can get all the sex they want without the interference of women, and they do not have to shoulder the burdens of responsibility for women and children. In other words, they tell me that they chose to be gay because it is a more intelligent, more self-serving lifestyle. > [@](#): > > Gay co-workers, particularly those entering the workforce directly out of college, have also been telling me for years that I am “stupid” for remaining straight, and that they are “smart” for deciding to be gay. They point out, accurately, the many punishments the quota system metes out to straight men, and the many rewards that same quota system metes out to gay men. Since I work in the world of the arts, I cannot dispute that. In my field, it is positively a negative to be openly straight. I am reminded almost daily by the gay co-workers that I am cutting my own throat by being openly straight. Almost daily, I am told that I would be better off if I’d at least pretend to be gay. Has he been majorly misintrepreting people for the past 35 years, or are gay people **really** telling him all this? If so, for God’s sake, WHY? I can’t accept this as proof that people CHOOSE to be homosexual, but for someone who doesn’t know better, what other conclusion could they possibly derive from all this? IOW, if this tale is true, what the FUCK are these people THINKING??? ---
**Author:** ![iampunha](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/74df32/32.png) [@iampunha](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iampunha)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2004, 12:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-some-gay-people-really-say-this/228759/2 "2004-02-12T00:52:06Z")
Some people will try anything to get laid. My roommate wouldn’t take no for an answer one night (he finally did); when he got frustrated, he openly doubted that I was bisexual, and asked me how I knew. The thing he neglected to consider was that I, like him (or so he claimed many times), had taste, and whatever desire I might have had to fuck him beforehand was gone the instant he didn’t take no for an answer. Making the system work for you, on the other hand, is a smart business decision, regardless of how bad it makes the rest of us look. ---
**Author:** ![leander](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/bcef8e/32.png) [@leander](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/leander)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2004, 12:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-some-gay-people-really-say-this/228759/3 "2004-02-12T00:52:51Z")
Maybe they’re just telling him the same shit straight people have been telling them for years… ---
**Author:** ![Vlad\_Igor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/7feea3/32.png) [@Vlad\_Igor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Vlad_Igor)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2004, 12:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-some-gay-people-really-say-this/228759/4 "2004-02-12T00:56:56Z")
Why would anyone want to [willingly] choose a lifestyle that could subject them to harrassment, bigotry, predjudice, physical harm and homocide? It sounds to me like this guy is being overly sensitive, playing the pity card, trolling, or he is being teased and/or harrassed by gay me he works with. Vlad/Igor ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2004, 1:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-some-gay-people-really-say-this/228759/5 "2004-02-12T01:37:49Z")
I have no doubt at all he has had gay people tell him just that. 'Cause this guy is transparently a sucker of the first water. Clearly, the gay people he knows enjoy playing “wind up the insecure straight guy.” And can you blame 'em? How can you not mess with the head of someone this thick? ---
**Author:** ![Brandus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/898d66/32.png) [@Brandus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Brandus)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2004, 2:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-some-gay-people-really-say-this/228759/6 "2004-02-12T02:12:10Z")
The people who said that were probably saying it tongue-in-cheek. No one really believes that it is a choice It just makes them feel better about themselves. Cheers. ---
**Author:** ![Priam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/77aa72/32.png) [@Priam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Priam)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2004, 3:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-some-gay-people-really-say-this/228759/7 "2004-02-12T03:03:11Z")
I make jokes to one straight friend of mine all the time along a similar vein, although I think some of the comments, if quoted as said, are really really dumb. I’ve done the “I’ll turn you gay, baby” stuff with him before just because we both find it hilarious. He’s TRIED sleeping with another guy but just couldn’t function well, so it’s a running gag between us. ---
**Author:** ![Fish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/bc8723/32.png) [@Fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fish)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2004, 3:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-some-gay-people-really-say-this/228759/8 "2004-02-12T03:31:06Z")
It’s also possible that they have a Seduce The Straight Guy fetish. (You know, similar to The Stud Who Sets Lesbians Straight fantasy.) Seems to me that I read about someone on this very board who enjoys the former, though I can’t recall the name. I wouldn’t take it very seriously, in any case. ---
**Author:** ![Homebrew](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/c89c15/32.png) [@Homebrew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Homebrew)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2004, 4:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-some-gay-people-really-say-this/228759/9 "2004-02-12T04:35:19Z")
> [@](#): > > They point out, accurately, the many punishments the quota system metes out to straight men, and the many rewards that same quota system metes out to gay men. I wanna know more about these gay quotas. I’m the only openly gay person at my office (I know one bisexual woman, but noone else knows about her.) Obviously my company is not meeting quota and needs to hire more people so we can have a Gay Employee’s Support Group. Alternately, perhaps another company that pays better hasn’t met their quota and I can get a better paying job. Either way, I need to know more about the quota system. ---
**Author:** ![matt\_mcl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7ab992/32.png) [@matt\_mcl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/matt_mcl)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2004, 6:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-some-gay-people-really-say-this/228759/10 "2004-02-12T06:07:58Z")
It’s a Whoosh!. It’s a big gay Whoosh!. Call it a Swish!. Most likely, IMHO, the gay guy in question is teasing the straight guy (and really, wouldn’t you if you came across someone this gullible?) It could conceivably be that the gay guy is extremely unscrupulous and is actually trying to make the straight guy believe this so he can lay him. Another possibility is that he’s disingenuously using ‘be/turn gay’ as a synonym for ‘have gay sex;’ or else he believes that the straight guy is gay to begin with and just needs to have gay sex in order to realize it; or else he believes that anyone who has gay sex is automatically gay for that reason. But I find it unlikely in the absolute extreme that the fellow literally believes that he chose to actually have a gay sexual orientation and that a straight man can choose likewise. ---
**Author:** ![spectrum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9fc29f/32.png) [@spectrum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/spectrum)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2004, 6:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-some-gay-people-really-say-this/228759/11 "2004-02-12T06:17:55Z")
> [@Leaper](#): > > I just read this blog entry where the writer doubts that homosexuality is innate. He says that he’s “got 35 years of experience living in the gay dominated communities of San Francisco and New York City,” and during that time, people have said the following to him: > > Has he been majorly misintrepreting people for the past 35 years, or are gay people **really** telling him all this? If so, for God’s sake, WHY? I can’t accept this as proof that people CHOOSE to be homosexual, but for someone who doesn’t know better, what other conclusion could they possibly derive from all this? IOW, if this tale is true, what the FUCK are these people THINKING??? This sounds like Clayton Cramer, a lying bigot of the first order. Listen to not a word he says. Ever. ---
**Author:** ![matt\_mcl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7ab992/32.png) [@matt\_mcl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/matt_mcl)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2004, 6:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-some-gay-people-really-say-this/228759/12 "2004-02-12T06:45:36Z")
> [@spectrum](#): > > This sounds like Clayton Cramer, a lying bigot of the first order. Listen to not a word he says. Ever. That is another possibility. ---
**Author:** ![Leaper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/4bbf92/32.png) [@Leaper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaper)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2004, 6:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-some-gay-people-really-say-this/228759/13 "2004-02-12T06:53:38Z")
Well, I should have been clearer: this was a COMMENT to a blog post, and the name listed therein was “Stephen,” so unless it was an assumed name, I don’t think it as him. If it had been someone like this guy Clayton Cramer, I probably wouldn’t have given it a second thought. Altho’ lying to score political points is a possibility nonetheless. ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2004, 9:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-some-gay-people-really-say-this/228759/14 "2004-02-12T09:17:24Z")
The blogger commited a fallacy of composition. It is not necessary that a straight man be gay to engage in sex with another man and even enjoy it. Homosexuality and heterosexuality are practically misnomers — it’s not about sex, it’s about preference, attraction, and emotional commitment. ---
**Author:** ![spectrum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9fc29f/32.png) [@spectrum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/spectrum)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2004, 3:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-some-gay-people-really-say-this/228759/15 "2004-02-12T15:47:11Z")
> [@Leaper](#): > > Well, I should have been clearer: this was a COMMENT to a blog post, and the name listed therein was “Stephen,” so unless it was an assumed name, I don’t think it as him. If it had been someone like this guy Clayton Cramer, I probably wouldn’t have given it a second thought. > > Altho’ lying to score political points is a possibility nonetheless. It appears that I sit corrected. It does sound like Cramer’s anti-gay rants, which all seem to be tied up in being hit on by gay people when he lived in San Francisco or something. Did the comment have a link back to the person’s own website? ---
**Author:** ![Leaper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/4bbf92/32.png) [@Leaper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaper)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2004, 12:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-some-gay-people-really-say-this/228759/16 "2004-02-13T00:07:27Z")
**Spectrum** : Yes, but just from seeing the front page, [I doubt it’ll give you any particular political insight](http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/mt/mt-comments.cgi?__mode=red&id=10266). And I did respond to the comment, bringing up such issues as teen suicide, but was simply told: > [@](#): > > I do not think that gay friends and associates have been pulling my chain. They’ve been telling me the truth, a truth they conceal in public forums as a way of bolstering their political claims. So fess up, gay men and women of the SDMB! Drop the act! Give us the truth! We can handle it! Oh, and I also forgot that he claims that radical lesbian feminists of the '90’s also encouraged women to “become lesbians” as further proof of his thesis. ---
**Author:** ![spectrum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9fc29f/32.png) [@spectrum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/spectrum)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2004, 12:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-some-gay-people-really-say-this/228759/17 "2004-02-13T00:41:20Z")
I have a hard time believing that any self-respecting gay man hit on that dweeb. ---
**Author:** ![Priam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/77aa72/32.png) [@Priam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Priam)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2004, 12:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-some-gay-people-really-say-this/228759/18 "2004-02-13T00:51:28Z")
Well there are some grounds for the lesbian thing, although not exactly in the '90s. In the late 60s and early 70s there were pockets of Women’s Lib folk who advocated turning “lesbian” for lack of a better word as an ultimate rebellion against male power. It never really took off because, well, most women really kinda like the dick more than the vagina and they earned the undying hatred of plenty of real lesbians who were jilted. See the Bi Until Graduation phenomenon today. I’ve never heard anything like that advocated for gay men. Lord knows plenty of straight men DO sleep with other men, but generally out of curiosity, incredible horniness, intoxication, or all of the above. This does not mean they like the dick anymore today than they did yesterday, only that they enjoy getting their rocks off. Generally when a gay man seriously attempts to seduce a straight man, it’s for the same purpose. Gay people generally don’t try to go through the effort of dating people they believe to be straight. It’s too much hassle and effort for too little reward when a pool of _willing_ guys exist. One night stands, yes. Long term relationship, no. ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2004, 4:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-some-gay-people-really-say-this/228759/19 "2004-02-13T04:55:19Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > And can you blame 'em? How can you not mess with the head of someone this thick? I couldn’t resist. I’d play gay just so I could fuck with his mind. ---
**Author:** ![Baldwin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/baldwin/32/7264_2.png) [@Baldwin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baldwin)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2004, 5:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-some-gay-people-really-say-this/228759/20 "2004-02-13T05:57:14Z")
I suggest turning to The Onion for insight into this touchy subject : [Why Do All These Homosexuals Keep Sucking My Cock?](http://www.theonion.com/onion3604/why_do_all_these.html) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-some-gay-people-really-say-this/228759.md?page=2)