# Do some progressives love the welfare budget? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [March 2, 2016, 8:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-some-progressives-love-the-welfare-budget/747769 "2016-03-02T20:59:46Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![GloryDays](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e9c0ed/32.png) [@GloryDays](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GloryDays)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2016, 8:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-some-progressives-love-the-welfare-budget/747769/1 "2016-03-02T20:59:46Z")
It seems that progressives love to increase the welfare budget at all costs, until in 1996 when welfare had to be reformed. Do some progressives like the welfare budget to be increased as possible? Do some of them not understand that it causes dependency? Why is not addressed in campaigns? ---
**Author:** ![El\_Kabong](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/el_kabong/32/496_2.png) [@El\_Kabong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/El_Kabong)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2016, 9:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-some-progressives-love-the-welfare-budget/747769/2 "2016-03-02T21:10:31Z")
> [@GloryDays](#): > > It seems that progressives love to increase the welfare budget at all costs, until in 1996 when welfare had to be reformed. Do some progressives like the welfare budget to be increased as possible? Do some of them not understand that it causes dependency? Why is not addressed in campaigns? 1. No 2. I don’t know. Does it? 3. Apparently the candidates and voters don’t find this subject as important as some others. Now, a question for you: what would you say was your personal tax burden for welfare last year? If your only response is “doesn’t matter, because anything above zero is too much” then feel free to make some sort of argument as to why you believe that. ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2016, 9:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-some-progressives-love-the-welfare-budget/747769/3 "2016-03-02T21:11:00Z")
It “causes dependency” in the same way lifeboats on a ship do. Without such protections, people simply die. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2016, 9:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-some-progressives-love-the-welfare-budget/747769/4 "2016-03-02T21:12:11Z")
Considering that our OP considers _paying members of the military for their service_ to be a “handout”, I shudder to think what he defines “welfare” as being. ---
**Author:** ![Defensive\_Indifference](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/defensive_indifference/32/6502_2.png) [@Defensive\_Indifference](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Defensive_Indifference)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2016, 9:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-some-progressives-love-the-welfare-budget/747769/5 "2016-03-02T21:17:24Z")
Yeah, welfare is kind of a broad category. What do you include as welfare? SNAP? Medicaid? Medicare? Social Security? Student aid? Corporate tax incentives? Federal programs? State? County? I guess candidates aren’t talking much about it because somehow we’ve decided to hate immigrants this year more than poor people. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2016, 9:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-some-progressives-love-the-welfare-budget/747769/6 "2016-03-02T21:17:29Z")
> [@GloryDays](#): > > It seems that progressives love to increase the welfare budget at all costs, until in 1996 when welfare had to be reformed. Do some progressives like the welfare budget to be increased as possible? Do some of them not understand that it causes dependency? Why is not addressed in campaigns? Define “welfare”. ---
**Author:** ![wolfpup](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpup/32/10618_2.png) [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2016, 9:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-some-progressives-love-the-welfare-budget/747769/7 "2016-03-02T21:18:36Z")
> [@GloryDays](#): > > Do some of them not understand that it causes dependency? Some of them understand that the absence of a social safety net causes death. Like an estimated 45,000 deaths per year from lack of health care, just for starters. In any case, any thread setting out the subject as “loving the welfare budget” is already a thoroughly poisoned well and a discussion dead-end. Some of us simply care about the kind of society we live in. ---
**Author:** ![dracoi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/90db22/32.png) [@dracoi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dracoi)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2016, 9:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-some-progressives-love-the-welfare-budget/747769/8 "2016-03-02T21:27:33Z")
> [@Trinopus](#): > > It “causes dependency” in the same way lifeboats on a ship do. Without such protections, people simply die. I can partly agree with this, but there are some real problems with how certain rules are implemented. When income tax benefits like EIC go down as income goes up, there are people who stop working or work less than they would otherwise. Some welfare or disability benefits expire at sharp cutoff points, which can leave a person either stuck below the allowed income, or having to double their income overnight just to make up for the lost benefits. (Which is perhaps a tangent, but is one reason why I think universal health care might be a good idea. When health insurance/expenses are taken off the list of benefits you lose by increasing your income, it makes the transition off public assistance to a higher income much easier.) ---
**Author:** ![GloryDays](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e9c0ed/32.png) [@GloryDays](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GloryDays)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2016, 10:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-some-progressives-love-the-welfare-budget/747769/9 "2016-03-02T22:08:18Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Define “welfare”. SNAP. Supplementary Nutritional Assistance Program. ---
**Author:** ![GloryDays](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e9c0ed/32.png) [@GloryDays](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GloryDays)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2016, 10:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-some-progressives-love-the-welfare-budget/747769/10 "2016-03-02T22:16:16Z")
I have nothing against Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid. What I don’t like is SNAP. Some people are using it with fraud. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2016, 10:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-some-progressives-love-the-welfare-budget/747769/11 "2016-03-02T22:17:32Z")
> [@GloryDays](#): > > SNAP. Supplementary Nutritional Assistance Program. So…“welfare” consists solely of SNAP? You are going with _that_ as your definition? And you oppose SNAP? ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2016, 10:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-some-progressives-love-the-welfare-budget/747769/12 "2016-03-02T22:21:11Z")
> [@GloryDays](#): > > It seems that progressives love to increase the welfare budget at all costs, until in 1996 when welfare had to be reformed. Do some progressives like the welfare budget to be increased as possible? Do some of them not understand that it causes dependency? Why is not addressed in campaigns? There is a persistent and mean-minded myth in American culture – [going back to Reconstruction](http://www.vrml.k12.la.us/bergeron/Class%20Projects/Reconstruction/cartoons/Freedman's_bureau.jpg) – that public assistance amounts to hardworking whites being taxed to support lazy or unemployable blacks. It was always nonsense, the majority of welfare recipients have always been white. You might not subscribe to this myth yourself – but you should know that you are getting your memes and talking-points from those who do. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2016, 10:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-some-progressives-love-the-welfare-budget/747769/13 "2016-03-02T22:23:10Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > So…“welfare” consists solely of SNAP? You are going with _that_ as your definition? And you oppose SNAP? Oooh, SNAP! ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2016, 10:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-some-progressives-love-the-welfare-budget/747769/14 "2016-03-02T22:24:24Z")
> [@GloryDays](#): > > I have nothing against Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid. What I don’t like is SNAP. Some people are using it with fraud. You realize that every government program has fraud, and most are costing much more than SNAP, right? BTW, SNAP has a budget of about $74 Billion, as opposed to over $1 Trillion for Medicaid/Medicare. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2016, 10:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-some-progressives-love-the-welfare-budget/747769/15 "2016-03-02T22:26:22Z")
> [@GloryDays](#): > > I have nothing against Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid. What I don’t like is SNAP. Some people are using it with fraud. So, you have nothing against programs that benefit white people with jobs, but you don’t like the kind that feeds the poorest of the poor. Funny how that works. See post #12. ---
**Author:** ![Defensive\_Indifference](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/defensive_indifference/32/6502_2.png) [@Defensive\_Indifference](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Defensive_Indifference)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2016, 10:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-some-progressives-love-the-welfare-budget/747769/16 "2016-03-02T22:26:30Z")
SNAP was a little over 2% of the federal budget in 2015. I’m not saying there’s no fraud, but as far as fiscal issues go, I’m going to have to rank it fairly low in priority. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2016, 10:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-some-progressives-love-the-welfare-budget/747769/17 "2016-03-02T22:28:39Z")
> [@GloryDays](#): > > I have nothing against Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid. What I don’t like is SNAP. Some people are using it with fraud. And some people go to restaurant buffets and sneak food out. :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![Lightnin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lightnin/32/180_2.png) [@Lightnin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lightnin)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2016, 10:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-some-progressives-love-the-welfare-budget/747769/18 "2016-03-02T22:33:23Z")
> [@GloryDays](#): > > I have nothing against Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid. What I don’t like is SNAP. Some people are using it with fraud. Just so we progressives understand why you’re so concerned, can you give us a sourced dollar amount for that SNAP fraud? ---
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2016, 10:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-some-progressives-love-the-welfare-budget/747769/19 "2016-03-02T22:34:51Z")
> [@GloryDays](#): > > I have nothing against Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid. What I don’t like is SNAP. Some people are using it with fraud. According to [this article from US News](http://www.usnews.com/opinion/blogs/economic-intelligence/2013/05/16/facts-show-food-stamp-program-has-a-strong-record-of-efficienty), the facts of the matter: > [@](#): > > …just 3 percent of benefits went to ineligible households or exceeded the allowable benefit for eligible households. Moreover, honest mistakes by recipients, eligibility workers, data entry clerks or computer programmers – not fraud – account for an overwhelming majority of such overpayments. > [@](#): > > CBPP analysis finds that more than 90 percent of the benefit dollars that these programs spend go to assist people who are elderly, seriously disabled or members of working households – not to able-bodied, working-age Americans who choose not to work. There is some level of fraud in _every_ enterprise known to man. SNAP serves an important function in our society (supplemented by public and private charitable endeavors, such as food banks), and the relative amount of fraud (which _has_ apparently been reduced), compared to the good that it does, makes it worthwhile. ---
**Author:** ![Dangerosa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Dangerosa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dangerosa)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2016, 10:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-some-progressives-love-the-welfare-budget/747769/20 "2016-03-02T22:39:14Z")
> [@GloryDays](#): > > I have nothing against Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid. What I don’t like is SNAP. Some people are using it with fraud. Oh my God, we’d better increase the IRS budget for audit! In terms of how many people cheat the system, I’m going to guess that more people cheat the IRS than cheat on their SNAP benefits - and to a much bigger bottom line cost for our government. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-some-progressives-love-the-welfare-budget/747769.md?page=2)