# Do some progressives love the welfare budget? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [March 2, 2016, 8:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-some-progressives-love-the-welfare-budget/747769 "2016-03-02T20:59:46Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2016, 10:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-some-progressives-love-the-welfare-budget/747769/21 "2016-03-02T22:40:36Z")
> [@GloryDays](#): > > I have nothing against Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid. What I don’t like is SNAP. Some people are using it with fraud. Are we talking about the [welfare queens and strapping young bucks](http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.com/2007/11/10/innocent-mistakes/?_r=0)? ---
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2016, 10:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-some-progressives-love-the-welfare-budget/747769/22 "2016-03-02T22:41:07Z")
I’m sure the OP is horrified at the amount of fraud at the Pentagon. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2016, 11:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-some-progressives-love-the-welfare-budget/747769/23 "2016-03-02T23:01:45Z")
> [@Procrustus](#): > > I’m sure the OP is horrified at the amount of fraud at the Pentagon. That’s not fraud, it’s . . . military deception. ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2016, 11:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-some-progressives-love-the-welfare-budget/747769/24 "2016-03-02T23:04:35Z")
> [@Procrustus](#): > > I’m sure the OP is horrified at the amount of fraud at the Pentagon. No, but his friends in Queens are ready to SNAP. ---
**Author:** ![steronz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steronz/32/11765_2.png) [@steronz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/steronz)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2016, 11:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-some-progressives-love-the-welfare-budget/747769/25 "2016-03-02T23:08:08Z")
Guys, I’m not worried about welfare fraud, but some friends of mine are worried about the future of the white race. You don’t understand how upset they’re getting. These friends of mine. Why are we still posting in GloryDays threads? ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2016, 11:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-some-progressives-love-the-welfare-budget/747769/26 "2016-03-02T23:14:38Z")
> [@steronz](#): > > Guys, I’m not worried about welfare fraud, but some friends of mine are worried about the future of the white race. You don’t understand how upset they’re getting. These friends of mine. > Why are we still posting in GloryDays threads? Same reason some people read “The Family Circus”? “And it’s always there, in the lower right hand corner, just waiting to suck.” ---
**Author:** ![HeXen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/c89c15/32.png) [@HeXen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HeXen)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2016, 11:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-some-progressives-love-the-welfare-budget/747769/27 "2016-03-02T23:22:50Z")
> [@Trinopus](#): > > It “causes dependency” in the same way lifeboats on a ship do. Without such protections, people simply die. The vast majority of recipients aren’t in it to abuse it because they’re lazy. Most of them lack the opportunities in their area to get a job that provides more than the benefits that Welfare provides. Some work 2 jobs and still qualify for assistance because the hours offered are that bad. Those that could work more will actually lose far more benefits that assistance provides and cost them more than they could afford…hence why they won’t work unless it’s for a beneficial amount over welfare. The problems as to why the poor stay poor are largely a sub-cultural communities issue among the poor class that grow up in these kinds of communities. It’s not something that policies, donations or the pathetic community fundings that doesn’t really fund the communities is ever going to solve…ever. Without welfare, the crime will get more desperate and children will suffer, we all know that much. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2016, 11:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-some-progressives-love-the-welfare-budget/747769/28 "2016-03-02T23:29:17Z")
> [@HeXen](#): > > The problems as to why the poor stay poor are largely a sub-cultural communities issue among the poor class that grow up in these kinds of communities. It’s not something that policies, donations or the pathetic community fundings that doesn’t really fund the communities is ever going to solve…ever. It could perhaps be solved by taking the poor **out** of those communities – e.g., project housing could be in the form of duplexes scattered throughout the 'burbs instead of high-rise warehouses. Then the poor kids can grow up in, still, a plain and small and austere home, but also in a more socially functional environment, they can go to better schools, and, if they ever present a crime problem, they will soon learn that the local LEOs make it their business to know exactly where every one of them lives – not like in the inner city where a kid can snatch a purse and fade into the background. ---
**Author:** ![Onomatopoeia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/onomatopoeia/32/4145_2.png) [@Onomatopoeia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Onomatopoeia)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2016, 11:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-some-progressives-love-the-welfare-budget/747769/29 "2016-03-02T23:37:45Z")
> [@steronz](#): > > Guys, I’m not worried about welfare fraud, but some friends of mine are worried about the future of the white race. You don’t understand how upset they’re getting. These friends of mine. > Why are we still posting in GloryDays threads? Exactly. All of **GloryDays** ’ OPs are “just asking the questions” and come out of nowhere. He seems to have an obsession with black people as often as they come up in his threads either explicitly or through innuendo, this thread being a case in point. The above stated, even these types of threads would be fine if it weren’t for **GloryDays** ’ lack of understanding of the details of the topic he has chosen to address and the frustrating amount of false information he responds with (when he responds at all). **GloryDays** ’ definition of ‘welfare’ is a laughable, but I am not surprised, and this thread is destined for the same fate as the others he’s started, the dustbin. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2016, 11:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-some-progressives-love-the-welfare-budget/747769/30 "2016-03-02T23:47:24Z")
The part I find odd is that the OP thinks it’s the budget that we like. We like people eating. If there were a way we could feed people for free, we’d love that. Unfortunately, that’s not the way the world works, and if you want to feed more people, you need to spend more money. And if you’re worried about dependency, the best solution to that is to replace all of the cutoffs with gradual tapers. There are a lot of programs where you can get a significant amount of assistance if your income is below some threshold, but none at all if you’re a single dollar above that. Worse, most of these programs use the same threshold. So there’s an incentive for someone just below one of those thresholds to _not_ work a few more hours, or to look for a job that pays a little bit more, or to otherwise better themselves, because if they do, they’ll suddenly be a whole lot worse off. In order to benefit from hard work, they’d have to nearly double their income in the span of a single year, which is almost impossible. It would be much better if, in some range, every extra dollar you earned cut your total benefits by, say, 50 cents: That way, you’d still always have some incentive to do better. This is such an obvious idea that I can’t understand why it hasn’t already been implemented. People complain about this effect all the time with tax brackets, even though our tax system is already tapered. But nobody ever seems to suggest it for benefit programs. ---
**Author:** ![GloryDays](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e9c0ed/32.png) [@GloryDays](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GloryDays)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2016, 11:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-some-progressives-love-the-welfare-budget/747769/31 "2016-03-02T23:55:53Z")
> [@Onomatopoeia](#): > > Exactly. All of **GloryDays** ’ OPs are “just asking the questions” and come out of nowhere. \*\*He seems to have an obsession with black people \*\*as often as they come up in his threads either explicitly or through innuendo, this thread being a case in point. > > The above stated, even these types of threads would be fine if it weren’t for **GloryDays** ’ lack of understanding of the details of the topic he has chosen to address and the frustrating amount of false information he responds with (when he responds at all). > > **GloryDays** ’ definition of ‘welfare’ is a laughable, but I am not surprised, and this thread is destined for the same fate as the others he’s started, the dustbin. I’m not a bigot. I love everyone. ---
**Author:** ![elbows](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/b3f665/32.png) [@elbows](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elbows)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2016, 11:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-some-progressives-love-the-welfare-budget/747769/32 "2016-03-02T23:56:06Z")
“Conservatism is the dread fear that somewhere, some how, someone you think is your inferior,’ is being treated as your equal.” ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2016, 12:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-some-progressives-love-the-welfare-budget/747769/33 "2016-03-03T00:07:49Z")
> [@GloryDays](#): > > I’m not a bigot. I love everyone. Love and respect are two different things. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2016, 12:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-some-progressives-love-the-welfare-budget/747769/34 "2016-03-03T00:08:55Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Define “welfare”. It’s the same thing as “warfare” only more violent. ---
**Author:** ![steronz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steronz/32/11765_2.png) [@steronz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/steronz)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2016, 12:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-some-progressives-love-the-welfare-budget/747769/35 "2016-03-03T00:09:29Z")
> [@GloryDays](#): > > I’m not a bigot. I love everyone. Look, _I_ don’t think you’re a bigot either. But these friends of mine, people like **Onomatopoeia** , you should hear the things they say about you. I hear stuff like this all the time about what a bigot **GloryDays** is. I don’t agree with them, but you have to understand how upset some people are about your opinions. Shouldn’t you do something about that? ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2016, 12:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-some-progressives-love-the-welfare-budget/747769/36 "2016-03-03T00:16:36Z")
> [@GloryDays](#): > > It seems that progressives love to increase the welfare budget at all costs, until in 1996 when welfare had to be reformed. Do some progressives like the welfare budget to be increased as possible? Do some of them not understand that it causes dependency? Why is not addressed in campaigns? "Welfare’ as most dudes think of it, ended with the **Personal Responsibility and Work Opportunity Reconciliation Act of 1996.** ---
**Author:** ![Onomatopoeia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/onomatopoeia/32/4145_2.png) [@Onomatopoeia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Onomatopoeia)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2016, 12:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-some-progressives-love-the-welfare-budget/747769/37 "2016-03-03T00:18:44Z")
> [@GloryDays](#): > > I’m not a bigot. I love everyone. Yeah, okay. Of all the welfare dollars being disbursed to programs for agencies and individuals in the US, the program that has you up in arms is SNAP, the one that helps poor people eat. If you were truly concerned about fraud and abuse, you would do a little research and determine where significant fraud exists, but you don’t care about corporate or industrial welfare, do you? You care about ensuring poor people can’t get a little more food than they are allotted, is that it? Is that how you express your love for everyone? ---
**Author:** ![GloryDays](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e9c0ed/32.png) [@GloryDays](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GloryDays)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2016, 12:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-some-progressives-love-the-welfare-budget/747769/38 "2016-03-03T00:40:51Z")
> [@Onomatopoeia](#): > > Yeah, okay. > > Of all the welfare dollars being disbursed to programs for agencies and individuals in the US, the program that has you up in arms is SNAP, the one that helps poor people eat. > > If you were truly concerned about fraud and abuse, you would do a little research and determine where significant fraud exists, but you don’t care about corporate or industrial welfare, do you? You care about ensuring poor people can’t get a little more food than they are allotted, is that it? Is that how you express your love for everyone? They should be working. Working. Working. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2016, 12:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-some-progressives-love-the-welfare-budget/747769/39 "2016-03-03T00:42:42Z")
> [@GloryDays](#): > > They should be working. Working. Working. And I’m sure they would agree, but, see post #27. ---
**Author:** ![GloryDays](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e9c0ed/32.png) [@GloryDays](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GloryDays)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2016, 12:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-some-progressives-love-the-welfare-budget/747769/40 "2016-03-03T00:49:31Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > And I’m sure they would agree, but, see post #27. I understand but they should not be on it. It’s dependence. After a while, _some_ of these people will lack the will to work. It’s the fact. Also, both races are on welfare. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-some-progressives-love-the-welfare-budget/747769.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-some-progressives-love-the-welfare-budget/747769.md?page=3)