# Do some progressives love the welfare budget? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [March 2, 2016, 8:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-some-progressives-love-the-welfare-budget/747769 "2016-03-02T20:59:46Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2016, 3:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-some-progressives-love-the-welfare-budget/747769/121 "2016-03-04T03:25:39Z")
> [@raventhief](#): > > Are there no workhouses? Not any more, but . . . let’s think about this . . . ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2016, 3:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-some-progressives-love-the-welfare-budget/747769/122 "2016-03-04T03:32:02Z")
> [@GloryDays](#): > > I fear that it creates dependency. Once you are on the system, you don’t feel the desire to actually work. > > The people that are on it, should get a job. If you cannot, then try harder. America is about work. You seem to be laboring under the mistaken impression that people who get SNAP benefits aren’t working. Please stop. ---
**Author:** ![Wolf333](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolf333/32/3460_2.png) [@Wolf333](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wolf333)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2016, 3:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-some-progressives-love-the-welfare-budget/747769/123 "2016-03-04T03:36:18Z")
Glorydaze, you claim to want discussion and debate, yet you ignore every single point that does not fit your premise. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2016, 3:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-some-progressives-love-the-welfare-budget/747769/124 "2016-03-04T03:40:29Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > You seem to be laboring under the mistaken impression that people who get SNAP benefits aren’t working. Please stop. You misunderstand. If you aren’t working, get off your lazy elderly/disabled/underaged ass and find non-existant work. If you are working, you must not be worth much because otherwise your boss will pay a fair wage. Therefore, no one needs SNAP. Scrooge was more merciful. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2016, 5:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-some-progressives-love-the-welfare-budget/747769/125 "2016-03-04T05:55:19Z")
> [@GloryDays](#): > > I relish on debating. > [@Czarcasm](#): > > Then you should ketchup and start responding, don’tcha think? I dunno; do you think he’s mustard enough credibility to do that effectively? If he can manage to whip up a coherent premise, it’ll be a Miracle. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2016, 6:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-some-progressives-love-the-welfare-budget/747769/126 "2016-03-04T06:02:12Z")
> [@andros](#): > > Hey, welcome back! We thought you’d left. > > I want accountable leadership in government too! I want my government leadership accountable for helping provide assistance to the poor, the ill, the disabled, and the struggling. > > So yeah, I love “welfare”–particularly including SNAP–and I work for its expansion. > > But since you “relish on debate,” I’ll have to ask: How \*much \*SNAP fraud actually takes? Do you have \*any \*idea? I hear that _some_ people have been abusing their SNAP benefits to buy non-essential foodstuffs, such as condiments… ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2016, 11:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-some-progressives-love-the-welfare-budget/747769/127 "2016-03-04T11:32:52Z")
AND buying bottled water! What’s wrong with what’s in the ditch by the road? Are they too lazy to dip a bucket? 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2016, 1:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-some-progressives-love-the-welfare-budget/747769/128 "2016-03-04T13:35:30Z")
> [@Happy\_Fun\_Ball](#): > > Aren’t something like 90% of full time Walmart (the nation’s largest employer - employs 1% of all workers in the US) employees getting SNAP benefits? I would like to see a cite for this - specifically that WalMart is the nation’s largest employer, and that 90% of their **full-time** employees are getting SNAP benefits. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![andros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e480ec/32.png) [@andros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andros)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2016, 2:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-some-progressives-love-the-welfare-budget/747769/129 "2016-03-04T14:57:02Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > I would like to see a cite for this - specifically that WalMart is the nation’s largest employer That part’s easy: [Fortune 500 | Fortune](http://fortune.com/fortune500/2015/) (Click the tab that says “Employees” to see that–at least acording to _Forbes_’ 2015 numbers–Walmart employs 2.2m people, over 5 times as many as the second-largest employer in the US. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2016, 3:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-some-progressives-love-the-welfare-budget/747769/130 "2016-03-04T15:10:47Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > I would like to see a cite for this - specifically that WalMart is the nation’s largest employer, and that 90% of their **full-time** employees are getting SNAP benefits. My current employer pays more than Wal-mart, but we still have some full time people on SNAP (usually ones with several kids). It wouldn’t surprise me if a high percentage of Wal-mart fulltimers are receiving benefits. ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2016, 3:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-some-progressives-love-the-welfare-budget/747769/131 "2016-03-04T15:17:48Z")
Look man. Poor people need to rely on themselves. No one helped me when I lost my job and had to survive on nothing but my unemployment checks and food stamps. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2016, 3:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-some-progressives-love-the-welfare-budget/747769/132 "2016-03-04T15:24:31Z")
> [@andros](#): > > That part’s easy: [Fortune 500 | Fortune](http://fortune.com/fortune500/2015/) (Click the tab that says “Employees” to see that–at least acording to _Forbes_’ 2015 numbers–Walmart employs 2.2m people, over 5 times as many as the second-largest employer in the US. Thanks. I assume that means 'private" employer. The federal government employs more people by a fair bit than Wal-Mart, but thanks. Now for the other part - that 90% of Wal-Mart’s full-time employees receive SNAP benefits. > [@Broomstick](#): > > My current employer pays more than Wal-mart, but we still have some full time people on SNAP (usually ones with several kids). What percentage of your company’s full-time employees receive SNAP benefits? Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![andros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e480ec/32.png) [@andros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andros)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2016, 4:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-some-progressives-love-the-welfare-budget/747769/133 "2016-03-04T16:06:46Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > Thanks. I assume that means 'private" employer. The federal government employs more people by a fair bit than Wal-Mart, but thanks. Substantially. Per the [US Office of Personnel Management](https://www.opm.gov/policy-data-oversight/data-analysis-documentation/federal-employment-reports/historical-tables/total-government-employment-since-1962/), 2014 Federal civilian employment was 2.6 million, with another 1.5m uniformed military. > [@](#): > > Now for the other part - that 90% of Wal-Mart’s full-time employees receive SNAP benefits. Yeah, not even sure if those numbers exist, but not digging for it. 😃 I find the claim extremely unlikely, though. Not out of the question, but unlikely. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2016, 4:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-some-progressives-love-the-welfare-budget/747769/134 "2016-03-04T16:27:50Z")
I’d say a bit more than unlikely. The average full time hourly rate at Wal-Mart is $13.38, vs. a US national average full time hourly wage of $12.96. ([Cite](http://news.walmart.com/news-archive/2016/01/20/more-than-one-million-walmart-associates-receive-pay-increase-in-2016)). I doubt if even 90% of Wal-Mart’s part-time workers are on SNAP. But [that is very difficult to determine](http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2012/dec/06/alan-grayson/alan-grayson-says-more-walmart-employees-medicaid-/). Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![slash2k](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/439d5e/32.png) [@slash2k](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/slash2k)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2016, 4:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-some-progressives-love-the-welfare-budget/747769/135 "2016-03-04T16:28:41Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > I would like to see a cite for this - specifically that WalMart is the nation’s largest employer, and that 90% of their **full-time** employees are getting SNAP benefits. > > Regards, > Shodan I don’t see a cite for what percentage of their employees receive food stamps, but [based on a study in Wisconsin](http://www.forbes.com/sites/clareoconnor/2014/04/15/report-walmart-workers-cost-taxpayers-6-2-billion-in-public-assistance/#71fd9b1d7cd8), the average Wal-Mart Supercenter employed 300 people, who received in aggregate between $904,542 and $1.75 million per year in benefits (average $3,015 to $5,815 per employee). This does include food stamps, but also school lunch program, Medicaid, TANF, Section 8 housing, and other benefits. ---
**Author:** ![slash2k](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/439d5e/32.png) [@slash2k](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/slash2k)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2016, 4:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-some-progressives-love-the-welfare-budget/747769/136 "2016-03-04T16:34:38Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > I’d say a bit more than unlikely. The average full time hourly rate at Wal-Mart is $13.38, vs. a US national average full time hourly wage of $12.96. ([Cite](http://news.walmart.com/news-archive/2016/01/20/more-than-one-million-walmart-associates-receive-pay-increase-in-2016)). Although it doesn’t pertain directly to the question asked, I would note that about half of Wal-Mart employees are part-time ([cite](http://www.nytimes.com/2015/02/26/business/next-goal-for-walmart-workers-more-hours.html?_r=0)), many of whom want full-time work, and your own source notes that part-timers average $10.58/hour _after_ the recent big increase. (And that $13.38 is likewise after the February increase.) ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2016, 4:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-some-progressives-love-the-welfare-budget/747769/137 "2016-03-04T16:39:01Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > I’d say a bit more than unlikely. The average full time hourly rate at Wal-Mart is $13.38, vs. a US national average full time hourly wage of $12.96. ([Cite](http://news.walmart.com/news-archive/2016/01/20/more-than-one-million-walmart-associates-receive-pay-increase-in-2016)). > > I doubt if even 90% of Wal-Mart’s part-time workers are on SNAP. But [that is very difficult to determine](http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2012/dec/06/alan-grayson/alan-grayson-says-more-walmart-employees-medicaid-/). > > Regards, > Shodan Of course, that pay rate is only due to a raise effective Feb 20 of this year. > [@](#): > > On Feb. 20, 2016, the company will implement one of the largest single-day, private-sector pay increases ever, benefiting more than 1.1 million hourly associates. > > When these changes go into effect, Walmart’s average full-time hourly wage will be $13.38/hour. The average part-time hourly wage will be $10.58/hour. ---
**Author:** ![Fuzzy\_wuzzy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/a8b319/32.png) [@Fuzzy\_wuzzy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fuzzy_wuzzy)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2016, 4:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-some-progressives-love-the-welfare-budget/747769/138 "2016-03-04T16:50:53Z")
How many of these Walmart employees are living in a stable, two income household? These households seem to be a major barrier into descending into the very worst conditions of the working poor. It’s not Walmarts fault if an employee is a single mom raising three kids. Im not criticizing single moms raising three kids, but to blame Walmart for their poverty is just wrong. ---
**Author:** ![elbows](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/b3f665/32.png) [@elbows](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elbows)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2016, 4:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-some-progressives-love-the-welfare-budget/747769/139 "2016-03-04T16:58:49Z")
More importantly what percentage of it’s employees are actually working full time hours? I thought part of their deal was more part time employees, because then no benefits, way less full time workers! ---
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2016, 6:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-some-progressives-love-the-welfare-budget/747769/140 "2016-03-04T18:45:10Z")
> [@GloryDays](#): > > … Do you want the government to do everything for you? Is that what you want? … Everything. Yeah, what the hell. I’ll give that a try. Who do I talk to? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-some-progressives-love-the-welfare-budget/747769.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-some-progressives-love-the-welfare-budget/747769.md?page=8)