# Do some towns choose to be unincorporated? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [July 30, 2017, 4:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-some-towns-choose-to-be-unincorporated/792445 "2017-07-30T16:23:31Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 12\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![ftg](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ftg/32/2801_2.png) [@ftg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ftg)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2017, 8:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-some-towns-choose-to-be-unincorporated/792445/41 "2017-08-01T20:33:59Z")
> [@Nava](#): > > But in every other country whose tax situation I’m familiar with (IANATaxSpecialist), it is simply not possible to be taxed on income at more than one level. Having federal and state income tax is already two levels. I didn’t just ask about having income tax at the municipal level; I asked about having income tax at multiple levels. I was presuming the context of the OP: municipalities being at the heart of the question. ---
**Author:** ![thelurkinghorror](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7c8e57/32.png) [@thelurkinghorror](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thelurkinghorror)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2017, 8:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-some-towns-choose-to-be-unincorporated/792445/42 "2017-08-01T20:34:16Z")
> [@Nava](#): > > But in every other country whose tax situation I’m familiar with (IANATaxSpecialist), it is simply not possible to be taxed on income at more than one level. Having federal and state income tax is already two levels. I didn’t just ask about having income tax at the municipal level; I asked about having income tax at multiple levels. Sure, [Canada is one](https://www.canada.ca/en/revenue-agency/services/tax/individuals/topics/about-your-tax-return/tax-return/completing-a-tax-return/deductions-credits-expenses/line-428-provincial-territorial-tax.html). And as far as sales tax, it’s the opposite: there is no national sales tax in the US while many countries have a national VAT. So US sales tax ranges from 0% to about 10% (looks like currently it’s some Louisiana cities at 9.98%) Though different places give different exemptions depending on the type of purchase (is food taxable or not?) so it’s hard to make direct comparisons. ---
**Author:** ![doreen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/858c86/32.png) [@doreen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doreen)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2017, 8:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-some-towns-choose-to-be-unincorporated/792445/43 "2017-08-01T20:52:01Z")
> [@thelurkinghorror](#): > > Sure, [Canada is one](https://www.canada.ca/en/revenue-agency/services/tax/individuals/topics/about-your-tax-return/tax-return/completing-a-tax-return/deductions-credits-expenses/line-428-provincial-territorial-tax.html). > > And as far as sales tax, it’s the opposite: there is no national sales tax in the US while many countries have a national VAT. So US sales tax ranges from 0% to about 10% (looks like currently it’s some Louisiana cities at 9.98%) Though different places give different exemptions depending on the type of purchase (is food taxable or not?) so it’s hard to make direct comparisons. It’s hard to make direct comparisons between different taxing schemes for a lot of reasons. People often say to me "You have to pay a city income tax? " as if they are horrified. Yes, I have to pay a city income tax, which as the name suggests is based on my income. The horrified people pay 4-5x what I do in property tax, which as that name suggests is not based on income. They seem to think I am paying property tax at thesame rate they are, but I am not and In many cases, the total tax is about the same. (But I will never have to sell my house because I can’t afford the income tax, while I have known many people who sold because they could not longer afford the property taxes)\_ ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2017, 9:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-some-towns-choose-to-be-unincorporated/792445/44 "2017-08-01T21:56:20Z")
> [@thelurkinghorror](#): > > Sure, [Canada is one](https://www.canada.ca/en/revenue-agency/services/tax/individuals/topics/about-your-tax-return/tax-return/completing-a-tax-return/deductions-credits-expenses/line-428-provincial-territorial-tax.html). > > And as far as sales tax, it’s the opposite: there is no national sales tax in the US while many countries have a national VAT. So US sales tax ranges from 0% to about 10% (looks like currently it’s some Louisiana cities at 9.98%) Though different places give different exemptions depending on the type of purchase (is food taxable or not?) so it’s hard to make direct comparisons. The sales tax in my great state of Washington gets above 10% in some cities. The one I live in is 10% but the most expensive city, Lynnwood, is 10.4%. ---
**Author:** ![Lemur866](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lemur866/32/434_2.png) [@Lemur866](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemur866)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2017, 10:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-some-towns-choose-to-be-unincorporated/792445/45 "2017-08-01T22:18:07Z")
> [@LSLGuy](#): > > IMO the big thing that’s different about the US is that we don’t have one system. We have at least 50 systems. Most are sorta similar, but there are lots of severe outliers. And this is true whether we’re talking local government or license plates or commercial life insurance or electricity supply or … > > The thing that continues to amaze me are the Americans who confidently post “In the USA it’s done like \” for their own local definition of \. Even if they’ve never left their own state even once in their lives, they have been reading the 'Dope for awhile. > > The USA: we might be kinda silly sometimes, but we’re \*always \*inconsistent. 😃 Yeah, for example in all the other states every square inch is part of a county, or in Louisiana which has parishes, which is why if you meet a down-and-out street musician in a cell in New Orleans it’s never going to be in the county jail. Except in Alaska. We don’t have counties, we have boroughs, and most of the state is not actually part of a borough. And there are various places in the US where a county and city are merged into one entity. Or, like Hawaii, have no city governments. ---
**Author:** ![thelurkinghorror](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7c8e57/32.png) [@thelurkinghorror](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thelurkinghorror)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2017, 10:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-some-towns-choose-to-be-unincorporated/792445/46 "2017-08-01T22:45:22Z")
> [@Atamasama](#): > > The sales tax in my great state of Washington gets above 10% in some cities. The one I live in is 10% but the most expensive city, Lynnwood, is 10.4%. Oh, I think the LA figure is the average across the state. The average across all of WA is a “mere” 8.92% or so. > [@Lemur866](#): > > And there are various places in the US where a county and city are merged into one entity. Or, like Hawaii, have no city governments. Or cities that don’t even have an associated county: Baltimore, MD, St. Louis, Mo, Carson City, NV, and many in VA (they do some things weird). ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2017, 10:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-some-towns-choose-to-be-unincorporated/792445/47 "2017-08-01T22:58:13Z")
> [@thelurkinghorror](#): > > Oh, I think the LA figure is the average across the state. The average across all of WA is a “mere” 8.92% or so. You’re probably correct, the minimum found in some unincorporated areas is 7.5%. Averaged out across the whole state, that seems about right. Most of the higher-priced tax areas are subsidizing transportation projects that people out in the sticks don’t benefit from and don’t have to pay for. ---
**Author:** ![Melbourne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b5e925/32.png) [@Melbourne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Melbourne)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2017, 1:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-some-towns-choose-to-be-unincorporated/792445/48 "2017-08-02T01:35:52Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > **Martini Enfield** , Australia doesn’t sound too different from the US in that regard, except that your federal government probably has more power than ours, and it sounds like your local government areas might be designed to have comparable population to each other, rather than comparable area as is typical in the US. But local roads are in fact one thing local governments are in charge of: You can often tell, for instance, when you cross the line from one city or suburb into another, because one’s doing a lot better job of fixing the potholes. Martini was speeking specifically about Queensland, the other states are each slightly different: like most of the USA, all are influenced by earlier English words. Incorporation is mostly controled by the state, with very little input from the residents. Since Queensland has the very flat structure, there won’t be many changes: If a local-government area gets more people, the size of the local government offices will change, and the extra staff will make new planning rules. The big difference is probably the level of state governement, since the state is mostly responsible for Schools and services. In my own state (Victoria), the state has gradually taken control of Water, Electricity, Sewerage, Hospitals, Ambulance, Schools and other stuff, as well as always having control of main roads, police, jails. The States have lost control to the Feds for Income tax, military, trade, foreign relations. My local government sets property taxes, but only within a tight framework defined by my state. Boundaries can be changed by the state, and townships joined or liquidated (if they think they can get away with it). Between Income Tax/Comapny tax & Property tax, the state has control of a bunch of “other” taxes: stamp duty, payroll tax etc. They can invent new taxes, if they think they can get away with it. ---
**Author:** ![Lord\_Feldon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lord_feldon/32/341_2.png) [@Lord\_Feldon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lord_Feldon)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2017, 2:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-some-towns-choose-to-be-unincorporated/792445/49 "2017-08-02T02:46:24Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > Pretty sure they are mutually exclusive. In Ohio, you are either township or city. There is no both. No, there can definitely be a both. It’s common in the Columbus suburbs (and in small rural villages, which some of the Columbus burbs still pretend to be). If you live in Dublin, you vote for the Dublin city council _and_ the Washington Township trustees. Even the local officials mess it up. My city recently found that it hadn’t properly removed land from its townships since the 1970s, so all areas annexed since then were supposed to be paying township taxes and voting in township elections. Oops. (Both sides agreed to pretend it had never been a problem.) > [@DSYoungEsq](#): > > Yeah, Ohio was a pain to live in, if you lived within the incorporated limits of a village/city. They get pretty persnickety about making sure you pay those taxes, and going through the process of getting the money credited properly can be annoying. I had one year I lived in one village, moved to another, all while working in a city. I hated that tax year. :mad: Yeah, I’ve heard nightmare stories about people who do work in a bunch of different cities (like a plumber or something) having to send in dozens of returns with $5 and $10 checks. The state tried to simplify it a few years ago, by making it a schedule on your state return (like school income taxes are), and the cities bitched and moaned so much about “local control” that it was dropped. ---
**Author:** ![Rick\_Kitchen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rick_kitchen/32/522_2.png) [@Rick\_Kitchen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick_Kitchen)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2017, 3:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-some-towns-choose-to-be-unincorporated/792445/50 "2017-08-02T03:15:06Z")
The town i live in, in Sacramento County, has over 80,000 people and has only been incorporated for 20 years. And it took a lot of fighting to get that. They had to agree with the County to give large percentages of the taxes the city collected to the county for, I think, 20 years. The city is just now starting to get all of its own taxes. Most of the places in Virginia are unincorporated. Incorporated cities in Virginia are not part of any count. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2017, 2:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-some-towns-choose-to-be-unincorporated/792445/51 "2017-08-02T14:19:13Z")
> [@Lord\_Feldon](#): > > No, there can definitely be a both. It’s common in the Columbus suburbs (and in small rural villages, which some of the Columbus burbs still pretend to be). If you live in Dublin, you vote for the Dublin city council _and_ the Washington Township trustees. > > Even the local officials mess it up. My city recently found that it hadn’t properly removed land from its townships since the 1970s, so all areas annexed since then were supposed to be paying township taxes and voting in township elections. Oops. (Both sides agreed to pretend it had never been a problem.) Huh, Ohio always amazes me. We really like to make things complicated. I absolutely believe you, but I still don’t think it makes any sense. > [@](#): > > Yeah, I’ve heard nightmare stories about people who do work in a bunch of different cities (like a plumber or something) having to send in dozens of returns with $5 and $10 checks. The state tried to simplify it a few years ago, by making it a schedule on your state return (like school income taxes are), and the cities bitched and moaned so much about “local control” that it was dropped. I don’t know how many companies handle it, but the cable company was able to actually direct my withholdings to all of the municipalities I worked in. I had to file for all of them, which was a pain (for my CPA), but I was already paid up on them all, so at least didn’t have to send out millions of checks for less than a dollar. Some of the municipalities I may have only worked in for a few hours, and so would owe like $0.75 or less. ---
**Author:** ![DSYoungEsq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c6cbf5/32.png) [@DSYoungEsq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSYoungEsq)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2017, 3:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-some-towns-choose-to-be-unincorporated/792445/52 "2017-08-02T15:21:56Z")
> [@Rick\_Kitchen](#): > > The town i live in, in Sacramento County, has over 80,000 people and has only been incorporated for 20 years. And it took a lot of fighting to get that. They had to agree with the County to give large percentages of the taxes the city collected to the county for, I think, 20 years. The city is just now starting to get all of its own taxes. > > Most of the places in Virginia are unincorporated. Incorporated cities in Virginia are not part of any count. But you can be an incorporated “town” in Virginia and they are not independent of the counties. Some incorporated towns are larger than some independent cities. It’s all quite silly. Especially when you start merging independent cities with counties to make larger independent municipalities. :eek: [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-some-towns-choose-to-be-unincorporated/792445.md?page=2)