# Do stars read lines or fake them? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [November 18, 2008, 7:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-stars-read-lines-or-fake-them/473337 "2008-11-18T19:34:50Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 15\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![NAF1138](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/naf1138/32/3245_2.png) [@NAF1138](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NAF1138)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2008, 5:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-stars-read-lines-or-fake-them/473337/41 "2008-11-19T17:33:50Z")
> [@CC](#): > > I quite agree that the structure of a story can contribute or determine much of what the dialog is. But I question your premise that dialog does not create structure. Of course it does. In fact, your life is a pretty good example of that. What is said determines in many ways what happens next. LIkewise, what an actor \*says \*can determine or influence what comes next. I know that movies are not made (usually) by improvisation, but how things play out is in great measure a result of what people say. And in terms of the story, it’s hard for me to believe that the actors have that kind of latitude, which is sometimes implied in movie commentary, and what I was asking about. Right, I get that. But your starting premise is incorrect. You are assuming that scriptwriting is a linear process, it isn’t. It is a process of winnowing down to completion, where dialogue is typically the last element created. The overall storyline is created, then the individual scenes necessary to tell that story, then the moments within those scenes that create the scenes drive, then the words that are used to fuel those moments. Dialogue serves structure, it’s the structure that is important to the storytelling process. You say > [@](#): > > What is said determines in many ways what happens next. LIkewise, what an actor \*says \*can determine or influence what comes next. And this is true. But in order to have a coherant story you have to know what comes next in order for the character to say the right thing to get you there. Acting then goes one futhrer layer inward and extrapolates the motive for why the line is said which then creates the next line, which then moves the scene which then moves the story along it arch. But the endpoint of each individual beat is planned in advance. Dialogue is window dressing. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2008, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-stars-read-lines-or-fake-them/473337/42 "2008-11-19T17:51:43Z")
> [@davekhps](#): > > Hey, thanks to everyone correcting me on the sitcom bit. > > It’s interesting to me that most of the sitcom shoots I ever attended had fewer cameras than the drama shoots. . . guess I just know how to pick them, eh? 🙂 It isn’t a matter of sitcom vs drama, it is whether the show is filmed in front of an audience. The show I was at was a comedy, but it shot on location with only one camera. The only exception was for a complex gag that they only wanted to do once. In addition, these shows are filmed out of order, so too much improv might screw up scenes already filmed. The actors went exactly according to script, but they were mostly kids. ---
**Author:** ![Jester](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jester/32/8223_2.png) [@Jester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jester)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2008, 6:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-stars-read-lines-or-fake-them/473337/43 "2008-11-19T18:17:09Z")
Just wanted to say that, **NAF** , you’re quite good at explaining this. The interplay between dialogue, structure, acting, directing, etc. is hugely complicated, so it’s always fun to see a pretty clear elucidation on it. Awesome points all around. Eventually, be it in theatre or film, the final product doesn’t really “belong” to any one person. The problem most reviewers face is that it’s much easier to say “Heath Ledger creates a harrowing Joker” as opposed to going into the various and sundry contributions that led to his final performance. ---
**Author:** ![Hal\_Briston](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/a9a28c/32.png) [@Hal\_Briston](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hal_Briston)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2008, 6:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-stars-read-lines-or-fake-them/473337/44 "2008-11-19T18:18:15Z")
Bizarre…a half hour ago I was reading through this, and I thought “Hmm…I wonder if 30 or 40 years from now, when Lucas is long gone, if someone will remake I-III and get them right.” Then I decided to catch up on PvP, where I came across [this](http://www.pvponline.com/2008/11/18/trek-on/). Odd timing… ---
**Author:** ![NAF1138](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/naf1138/32/3245_2.png) [@NAF1138](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NAF1138)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2008, 6:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-stars-read-lines-or-fake-them/473337/45 "2008-11-19T18:27:34Z")
> [@Jester](#): > > Just wanted to say that, **NAF** , you’re quite good at explaining this. The interplay between dialogue, structure, acting, directing, etc. is hugely complicated, so it’s always fun to see a pretty clear elucidation on it. Awesome points all around. Eventually, be it in theatre or film, the final product doesn’t really “belong” to any one person. The problem most reviewers face is that it’s much easier to say “Heath Ledger creates a harrowing Joker” as opposed to going into the various and sundry contributions that led to his final performance. Thanks! This is one of the few areas that I can really claim some level expertise in; it’s good to know the explinations are making sense. These are complicated issues that can be hard to understand without first hand experience. ---
**Author:** ![Kaio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/c68b51/32.png) [@Kaio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kaio)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2008, 1:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-stars-read-lines-or-fake-them/473337/46 "2008-11-20T01:20:02Z")
> [@NAF1138](#): > > Right, I get that. But your starting premise is incorrect. You are assuming that scriptwriting is a linear process, it isn’t. It is a process of winnowing down to completion, where dialogue is typically the last element created. The overall storyline is created, then the individual scenes necessary to tell that story, then the moments within those scenes that create the scenes drive, then the words that are used to fuel those moments. Dialogue serves structure, it’s the structure that is important to the storytelling process. Exactly. Your mistake is in comparing a script to real life. In real life, you _don’t know_ what’s going to happen next, or how the story is going to end. Whatever you do, and whatever you say, will influence and possibly change that outcome, moment-to-moment. In a completed script, you already know both. The dialogue is developed as one of the tools to get you from one pre-determined moment to the next, and from the pre-determined beginning of the story, to the pre-determined end. A well-written story/script _looks like_ real life, especially to someone reading or seeing it for the first time, but it’s actually far from it. In real life the next moment isn’t pre-determined, much less the end of the story. ---
**Author:** ![Kaio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/c68b51/32.png) [@Kaio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kaio)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2008, 1:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-stars-read-lines-or-fake-them/473337/47 "2008-11-20T01:29:20Z")
Missed the edit, so also: what **Jester** said. I don’t know what your role is in the film-making business, but you’ve got a nice perspective on things that I can totally geek on endlessly. I come at this mainly from an actor’s perspective, though I also have a writing background, and listen to enough DVD commentary to have some idea from a director’s POV. I am enough of a geek on this that I’d love to sit in a room and watch **WhyNot** demonstrate all of her 50 versions of “I love you.” 😃 ---
**Author:** ![The\_Hamster\_King](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/8edcca/32.png) [@The\_Hamster\_King](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Hamster_King)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2008, 5:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-stars-read-lines-or-fake-them/473337/48 "2008-11-20T05:18:08Z")
A small business point: The standard SAG contract requires actors to be paid extra if they are asked to ad lib and a substantial amount of their improvisation makes it into the final product. So there’s a financial incentive in many productions to have the actors stick to the script. ---
**Author:** ![Lakai](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/9de0a6/32.png) [@Lakai](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lakai)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2008, 6:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-stars-read-lines-or-fake-them/473337/49 "2008-11-20T06:54:41Z")
The DVD extras on Pulp Fiction have the actors talking about how everyone stayed true to the script. Of course, other times you have to keep them in line. The script in The Sopranos had to be followed word for word. Chase was very particular with his language. There was dissent at first, but eventually the actors went along. If the script is really good then actors will follow along, if not, then they might try to make it better. After all, their careers are on the line. If they can’t have a good performance because of the script, the audience is not going to blame the script. A guy like Chase can make actors fall in line because everyone knows he’s good. If Lucas makes another film, he’s going to have trouble. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Second\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@The\_Second\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Second_Stone)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2008, 7:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-stars-read-lines-or-fake-them/473337/50 "2008-11-20T07:47:29Z")
> [@KneadToKnow](#): > > It’s a little known fact that by themselves they mean nothing, but all of Lucas’s films run together to form a multimedia invocation of the Great Demon. Every time an actor goes off script just makes more work for him in later films to get the correct sequence of words, images, and music which will open the dimensional rift and summon forth the Underworld, which explains why he’s gotten more strict and tyrannical over the years. > > Rumor has it the chant must include the correct sequence of the following words: 1138, meesa, dark side, and NOOOOOOOOOOO! Let’s not forget Lucas’ love of the Wilhelm scream. When was the last time he made a movie without one? Fortunately I don’t notice them during viewing usually, but it is not a fun call out, like 1138. ---
**Author:** ![singular1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ba9def/32.png) [@singular1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/singular1)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2008, 1:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-stars-read-lines-or-fake-them/473337/51 "2008-11-20T13:00:26Z")
[The love of the Wilhelm.](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cdbYsoEasio) ---
**Author:** ![Hazle\_Weatherfield](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e9bcb4/32.png) [@Hazle\_Weatherfield](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hazle_Weatherfield)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2008, 7:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-stars-read-lines-or-fake-them/473337/52 "2008-11-20T19:51:14Z")
> [@singular1](#): > > [The love of the Wilhelm.](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cdbYsoEasio) Oh, my God! I had never heard of this phenomenon before! What’s the story? ---
**Author:** ![Kaio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/c68b51/32.png) [@Kaio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kaio)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2008, 8:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-stars-read-lines-or-fake-them/473337/53 "2008-11-20T20:20:59Z")
> [@singular1](#): > > [The love of the Wilhelm.](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cdbYsoEasio) I about fell off my chair laughing. Somehow I’d never drawn the connection that it’s the _exact same scream._ That must be the best-selling stock sound-effect CD evar. ---
**Author:** ![Bijou\_Drains](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bijou_drains/32/2814_2.png) [@Bijou\_Drains](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bijou_Drains)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2008, 8:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-stars-read-lines-or-fake-them/473337/54 "2008-11-20T20:23:31Z")
In Goodfellas the scene where they visited Tommy’s mother to get a shovel to bury Billy Batts was all unscripted except for the part about the painting. Tommy’s mother was played by Martin Scorsese’s mother who was not an actress. ---
**Author:** ![Hi\_Neighbor](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hi_neighbor/32/494_2.png) [@Hi\_Neighbor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hi_Neighbor)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2008, 8:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-stars-read-lines-or-fake-them/473337/55 "2008-11-20T20:35:13Z")
The scene in _Good Will Hunting_ where Robin Williams’ character tells Will about his wife’s nuances like farting in the bed… that was all adlibbed. I later read that during this scene, the camera man laughs so hard that you can noticeably see the view shake. And Matt Damon is truly laughing his ass off because he wasn’t expecting it. Good stuff. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-stars-read-lines-or-fake-them/473337.md?page=2)