# Do states other than New York have an "Upstate"? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [May 30, 2012, 1:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-states-other-than-new-york-have-an-upstate/623501 "2012-05-30T01:00:33Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2012, 2:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-states-other-than-new-york-have-an-upstate/623501/81 "2012-06-04T14:17:42Z")
> [@Rhythmdvl](#): > > I’d say that most residents of Sullivan, Ulster and Dutchess counties don’t associate themselves with upstate. Those counties are on the exact border of upstate to me and I can never decide which they are. On the one hand if you’re just tooling around and looking at the scenery they feel pretty far removed from NYC. On the other hand you can take a local train to the city and back. ---
**Author:** ![ShibbOleth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/848f3c/32.png) [@ShibbOleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ShibbOleth)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2012, 4:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-states-other-than-new-york-have-an-upstate/623501/82 "2012-06-04T16:26:57Z")
> [@Jenaroph](#): > > Michigan has 3 times the area of Ireland. Would you refer to the entire country by one unflattering characteristic of, say, Dublin? 3 times the land mass (okay, it’s Michigan, so they probably count the lake as area), and 1/3 the sense of humour. So it’s a bit diluted. ---
**Author:** ![whc.03grady](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/a6a055/32.png) [@whc.03grady](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/whc.03grady)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2012, 8:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-states-other-than-new-york-have-an-upstate/623501/83 "2012-06-04T20:57:03Z")
“Outstate” Nebraska is taken to mean, very roughly, from anywhere West of Grand Island or Kearney. Sometimes Omahans (and less often, Lincolnites) call anywhere outside of Omaha and Lincoln “Outstate”. ---
**Author:** ![Rhythmdvl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/85f322/32.png) [@Rhythmdvl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rhythmdvl)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2012, 9:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-states-other-than-new-york-have-an-upstate/623501/84 "2012-06-04T21:12:31Z")
> [@Ludovic](#): > > Those counties are on the exact border of upstate to me and I can never decide which they are. On the one hand if you’re just tooling around and looking at the scenery they feel pretty far removed from NYC. On the other hand you can take a local train to the city and back. Ah, hence the whole “downstate” thing. We’re not part of NYC, and we’re not part of upstate. ---
**Author:** ![crowduus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/41988e/32.png) [@crowduus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowduus)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2016, 7:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-states-other-than-new-york-have-an-upstate/623501/85 "2016-07-02T07:53:52Z")
Currently, the most widely-accepted (upstate/downstate do not have official boundaries) version as per those who actually matter: myself and my fellow downstaters, is that downstate NY includes Long Island (Nassau & Suffolk Counties), NYC (Queens, Kings, Bronx, New York, and Richmond Counties), and Westchester County. Everything else is “Upstate.” However, upstaters don’t particularly like the moniker that pretty much refers to them as the “everything else” part of NY that nobody cares about (which is true). People do sometimes say “downstate,” but since everything downstate is well-known and actually matters to the rest of the country, people will normally refer to downstate areas specifically (Long Island or NYC… Westchester is less-well known and sometimes gets lumped into NYC, sometimes upstate). If you’re FROM upstate, you refer to your region as either Western New York, or Central New York. Or, you may say you live in Buffalo if you live there, but that’s even more embarrassing than saying you live in upstate NY. Why is “upstate” unique to NY? Is that really a question? NY is unique. It is the most unique and well-known metropolitan area in the world, and has by-far the most sprawling skyline and urban landscape. This is all on a little small spot on the bottom tip, and then you’ve got the HUGE span of rural farmlands to the north—which nobody outside the US (and possibly in the US as well) knows anything about. If you’re on another continent, and you say you’re from NY, people assume NYC and have no concept of the fact that you may actually live an 8-hour drive away. NY doesn’t play by the same rules. Long Island is called Long Island, even though there is not actually any address/city/or county called LI. You also are not “in” Long Island—you’re ON Long Island. I can’t think of any other island like that. Bronx, NY is also referred to as “The” Bronx. That’s unique as well. There NEEDS to be a way to differentiate from the biggest city in the world vs. the rest. There DOESN’T need to be a difference in Pennsylvania, or in California, or in any other state. New York does what we want, and that won’t change until the sea level washes it away. Boom. ---
**Author:** ![enipla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/54ee81/32.png) [@enipla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/enipla)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2016, 1:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-states-other-than-new-york-have-an-upstate/623501/86 "2016-07-02T13:21:51Z")
This is a little different use… Folks that live in the mountains of Colorado refer to the front range (Denver, Boulder, Colorado Springs) as ‘down’. “I’m going down to Denver tomorrow” would be a common use. ---
**Author:** ![bibliophage](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bibliophage/32/7615_2.png) [@bibliophage](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bibliophage)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2016, 2:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-states-other-than-new-york-have-an-upstate/623501/87 "2016-07-02T14:19:01Z")
> [@crowduus](#): > > However, upstaters don’t particularly like the moniker that pretty much refers to them as the “everything else” part of NY that nobody cares about (which is true). I was raised in upstate New York and I don’t remember any of my family, friends, neighbors, teachers, or classmates ever taking offense at the term. It was–and still is I think–a conveniently shorthand way of explaining to outsiders that you’re from New York State but not New York City. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2016, 2:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-states-other-than-new-york-have-an-upstate/623501/88 "2016-07-02T14:20:36Z")
> [@crowduus](#): > > Currently, the most widely-accepted (upstate/downstate do not have official boundaries) version as per those who actually matter: myself and my fellow downstaters, is that downstate NY includes Long Island (Nassau & Suffolk Counties), NYC (Queens, Kings, Bronx, New York, and Richmond Counties), and Westchester County. Everything else is “Upstate.” However, upstaters don’t particularly like the moniker that pretty much refers to them as the “everything else” part of NY that nobody cares about (which is true). People do sometimes say “downstate,” but since everything downstate is well-known and actually matters to the rest of the country, people will normally refer to downstate areas specifically (Long Island or NYC… Westchester is less-well known and sometimes gets lumped into NYC, sometimes upstate). If you’re FROM upstate, you refer to your region as either Western New York, or Central New York. Or, you may say you live in Buffalo if you live there, but that’s even more embarrassing than saying you live in upstate NY. Why is “upstate” unique to NY? Is that really a question? NY is unique. It is the most unique and well-known metropolitan area in the world, and has by-far the most sprawling skyline and urban landscape. This is all on a little small spot on the bottom tip, and then you’ve got the HUGE span of rural farmlands to the north—which nobody outside the US (and possibly in the US as well) knows anything about. If you’re on another continent, and you say you’re from NY, people assume NYC and have no concept of the fact that you may actually live an 8-hour drive away. NY doesn’t play by the same rules. Long Island is called Long Island, even though there is not actually any address/city/or county called LI. You also are not “in” Long Island—you’re ON Long Island. I can’t think of any other island like that. Bronx, NY is also referred to as “The” Bronx. That’s unique as well. There NEEDS to be a way to differentiate from the biggest city in the world vs. the rest. There DOESN’T need to be a difference in Pennsylvania, or in California, or in any other state. New York does what we want, and that won’t change until the sea level washes it away. Boom. This is why the rest of us get annoyed at New York City. ---
**Author:** ![Hari\_Seldon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hari_seldon/32/5173_2.png) [@Hari\_Seldon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hari_Seldon)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2016, 2:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-states-other-than-new-york-have-an-upstate/623501/89 "2016-07-02T14:57:30Z")
> [@cochrane](#): > > There’s [Upstate Pennsylvania](http://www.visitpa.com/upstatepa). Spending the first 26 years of my life in Philly, I never heard the term. On the other hand, in the four years I lived in IL, I heard “downstate” all the time. Like “upstate” in NY, it referred to the hicks who weren’t in or around the big city. ---
**Author:** ![Rhythmdvl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/85f322/32.png) [@Rhythmdvl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rhythmdvl)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2016, 3:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-states-other-than-new-york-have-an-upstate/623501/90 "2016-07-02T15:35:49Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > This is why the rest of us get annoyed at New York City. Plenty of reasons to be annoyed at New York City, but I don’t think \*\*crowduus \*\*is from there. At any given time there is a maximum of twenty people in the entire New York City Metropolitan region that refer to the city itself as ‘downstate’. This is part of natural law, codified in both city and state regulations. ---
**Author:** ![boffking](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/858c86/32.png) [@boffking](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/boffking)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2016, 3:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-states-other-than-new-york-have-an-upstate/623501/91 "2016-07-02T15:45:17Z")
The region referred to as “Central Maine” is quite far from the geographical center of the state. It is used to refer to the Lewiston/Auburn area, which is geographically far to the south of the center. Southern Maine refers, almost exclusively, to Cumberland and York County. ---
**Author:** ![Terminus\_Est](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/terminus_est/32/3087_2.png) [@Terminus\_Est](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terminus_Est)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2016, 3:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-states-other-than-new-york-have-an-upstate/623501/92 "2016-07-02T15:52:29Z")
> [@crowduus](#): > > There NEEDS to be a way to differentiate from the biggest city in the world vs. the rest. So… Tokyo? Or Shanghai? ---
**Author:** ![Corry\_El](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ecae2f/32.png) [@Corry\_El](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Corry_El)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2016, 4:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-states-other-than-new-york-have-an-upstate/623501/93 "2016-07-02T16:45:22Z")
It seems ‘upstate’ has become a fairly common term in SC, once was a term in PA but fading. It’s certainly best known in NY. Upstate NY definitely does not include (besides the City and Long Island) Westchester or Rockland counties. For the next two east to west ‘rows’ of counties, Orange/Putnam, then Sullivan/Ulster/Dutchess, it’s more a matter of perspective. AFAIK (native of [the City of] NY) people from the City would tend to consider Sullivan etc ‘upstate’, people from Plattsburgh might think of it as ‘almost the City’. IME upstaters don’t typically hate the term but some seem to prefer to avoid it in favor of more detailed regional designations within the state like Western NY, Central NY, etc as detailed in a post above. However somebody from say California or another country probably won’t know what you’re talking about saying ‘Central NY’, whereas if people have heard of the state of NY at all they probably know in rough terms that ‘upstate’ means not the NY metro area, even without there being a 100% clear definition of the territory it encompasses. A related issue is where people from southwest CT say they’re from ‘New England’, which is kind of a joke. Somebody said upstate in NY had a lot in common with (real) New England but I question that. Rural upstate has its own vibe and you notice the different much more crossing most places into MA or VT than you do crossing from the ‘lower tier’ of NY (another regional term) into PA, or from Orange to the NJ highlands (a reason why Orange is probably not ‘upstate’ NY). ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2016, 5:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-states-other-than-new-york-have-an-upstate/623501/94 "2016-07-02T17:09:12Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > This is why the rest of us get annoyed at New York City. We’re not all like that. Some of us use paragraphs. ---
**Author:** ![Chefguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chefguy/32/138_2.png) [@Chefguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chefguy)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2016, 5:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-states-other-than-new-york-have-an-upstate/623501/95 "2016-07-02T17:18:05Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > We’re not all like that. > > Some of us use paragraphs. You must be from Manhattan. Fookin’ elitist. ---
**Author:** ![Leo\_Bloom](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leo_bloom/32/10377_2.png) [@Leo\_Bloom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leo_Bloom)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2016, 5:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-states-other-than-new-york-have-an-upstate/623501/96 "2016-07-02T17:21:11Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > In common usage, Upstate New York is everything north of New York City (which is the entire state except for NYC and Long Island). > > … > > The Catskills are maybe part of Central New York or maybe part of the Hudson Valley. It’s an unsolved mystery… Yes, but isn’t there a Downstate University or College or something (for Medicine?) around NYC? I never understood that. As to the Catskills, around these parts, certainly among Jews of a certain age, it’s referred to as “The [Da’] Mountins” (think _Dirty Dancing_). I had a girlfriend from the Rockies who squirted milk out of her nose when she understood I really meant that insignificant hump of geology. Portions of which also known as The Jewish Alps and The Italian Alps. ---
**Author:** ![Leo\_Bloom](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leo_bloom/32/10377_2.png) [@Leo\_Bloom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leo_Bloom)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2016, 5:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-states-other-than-new-york-have-an-upstate/623501/97 "2016-07-02T17:30:09Z")
> [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](#): > > Google hits for the phrase: > > “Upstate New York” 13,400,000 > “upstate Pennsylvania” 52,400 > “Upstate Wisconsin” 15,400 > “Upstate Florida” 15,700 > “Upstate Michigan” 32,000 > “Upstate Maine” 24,400 > > Usage in NY is 3 orders of magnitude greater than usage in geographically similar states. **Quadgop** , I’m surprised at you. This is a meaningless result of a meaningless methodology, unless you tell me text mentions of geography on the entire-Internet-as-Googled are commensurable with usage, on _or_ off that particular record. As well as per-capita, per poster. Aren’t people from Maine known to be reticent? “Mainers” is correct? It sounds weird. ---
**Author:** ![boffking](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/858c86/32.png) [@boffking](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/boffking)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2016, 5:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-states-other-than-new-york-have-an-upstate/623501/98 "2016-07-02T17:31:57Z")
Yes. I have lived in Maine almost my whole life. We call ourselves Mainers. ---
**Author:** ![Leo\_Bloom](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leo_bloom/32/10377_2.png) [@Leo\_Bloom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leo_Bloom)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2016, 5:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-states-other-than-new-york-have-an-upstate/623501/99 "2016-07-02T17:32:58Z")
> [@Leo\_Bloom](#): > > Yes, but isn’t there a Downstate University or College or something (for Medicine?) around NYC? I never understood that. SUNY DOWNSTATE MEDICAL CENTER SUNY Downstate Sesquicentennial 450 Clarkson Avenue Brooklyn, NY 11203 Still don’t get it, though. ---
**Author:** ![Leo\_Bloom](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leo_bloom/32/10377_2.png) [@Leo\_Bloom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leo_Bloom)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2016, 6:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-states-other-than-new-york-have-an-upstate/623501/100 "2016-07-02T18:10:38Z")
> [@doreen](#): > > It is to a certain group of people in NYC - former/current inmates, cops, city correction officers, etc. Nearly all of the state prisons are “upstate” to someone from NYC. Hence being sent “up the [Hudson] river” as attested in a million crime depictions. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-states-other-than-new-york-have-an-upstate/623501.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-states-other-than-new-york-have-an-upstate/623501.md?page=6)