# Do super-hero stories in which the hero creates the Minnis s/she must defeat bug anyone else? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [May 23, 2018, 4:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-super-hero-stories-in-which-the-hero-creates-the-minnis-s-she-must-defeat-bug-anyone-else/814685 "2018-05-23T16:10:14Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 14\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![bordelond](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bordelond/32/150_2.png) [@bordelond](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bordelond)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2018, 10:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-super-hero-stories-in-which-the-hero-creates-the-minnis-s-she-must-defeat-bug-anyone-else/814685/41 "2018-05-23T22:09:05Z")
> [@kenobi\_65](#): > > “Menace,” I suspect. Skald is now using voice-recognition software, as his vision is now extremely limited, and it has popped out a few odd words in his posts. Ack – serves me right for skipping over the entire thread. When I encounter a new term on this board, I typically assume it’s simply something to which I’m not yet hip. ---
**Author:** ![Hilarity\_N.Suze](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hilarity_n.suze/32/6223_2.png) [@Hilarity\_N.Suze](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hilarity_N.Suze)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2018, 11:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-super-hero-stories-in-which-the-hero-creates-the-minnis-s-she-must-defeat-bug-anyone-else/814685/42 "2018-05-23T23:17:55Z")
> [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > I composed the OP using the dictation feature on my iPhone rather than typing it using a wireless keyboard, as I don’t carry said keyboard around every place. When I do that, I will dictate a sentence and then stop to listen to it to find any place the iPhone has screwed up. For example, in the previous sentence, it transcribed CARRY as “care he.” But homophones (some of which the goddamn phone just makes up on the spot because the goddamn programmers are frequently goddamn incompetent) can easily trip me up. To find them I have to go letter by letter at times, which I will think to do if I am concerned about, for example, WAIT coming out as WEIGHT, but obviously can’t always fine. Sorry. > > However, as if to make up for this failing, the iPhone does allow me to do things like pronounce the name STARK as ASSHOLE. That’s always fun! Yeah but was it menace, enemies, or nemesis? And also, what color was that dress? ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2018, 4:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-super-hero-stories-in-which-the-hero-creates-the-minnis-s-she-must-defeat-bug-anyone-else/814685/43 "2018-05-24T04:31:33Z")
> [@Hilarity\_N.Suze](#): > > Yeah but was it menace, enemies, or nemesis? And also, what color was that dress? Putting my serious hat on, I am going to ignore the first question as frivolous and address the second. I have no idea what dress you are talking about, and even if I did, I would probably not be sure of what color it is. Many colors have merged for me now. I have difficulty telling many shades of blue from gray, for instants. My stepdaughter helps me to look snappy at work by sorting my shirts, jackets, ties, & pants and placing the outfits she designs together in the closet. Otherwise I would look like tatterdemalion. ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2018, 4:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-super-hero-stories-in-which-the-hero-creates-the-minnis-s-she-must-defeat-bug-anyone-else/814685/44 "2018-05-24T04:34:35Z")
> [@Telemark](#): > > Not MCU, but since Marvel and Pixar are both owned by Disney… > > Mr Incredible creates Syndrome by not wanting Buddy as a sidekick. That is far from what I mean. Nothing Mr. Incredible did too Buddy good reasonably have been expected to cause a turn to villainy, nor was Mr. Incredible motivated by anything other than justified annoyance and benevolent concern. ---
**Author:** ![nightshadea](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/7ba0ec/32.png) [@nightshadea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nightshadea)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2018, 9:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-super-hero-stories-in-which-the-hero-creates-the-minnis-s-she-must-defeat-bug-anyone-else/814685/45 "2018-05-24T09:43:00Z")
According to the superfriends Superman created lex as a enemy when he messed up an experiment and then overkilled on the clean up … ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2018, 10:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-super-hero-stories-in-which-the-hero-creates-the-minnis-s-she-must-defeat-bug-anyone-else/814685/46 "2018-05-24T10:14:59Z")
> [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > Oh, you and I never agree, Dibble. I fully expect you to explain someday that the sky has turned orange. It frequently does - usually around dusk or dawn, but also other times. To me, creating your own nemesis is _perfectly_ plausible - after all, _we_ do it all the time, and always have. Just ask the 17th, 18th and 19th Roman Legions how plausible Arminius was…or ask Americans soldiers in, oh, anyplace they’re facing enemies the US used to sell weapons to. ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2018, 10:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-super-hero-stories-in-which-the-hero-creates-the-minnis-s-she-must-defeat-bug-anyone-else/814685/47 "2018-05-24T10:35:04Z")
To answer the titular question: Only when it’s done poorly. Fundamentally, it’s basically a reflection of our own angst over the creation of nuclear weapons and Climate Change and so on. While, yes, it gets a bit wonky when you change it from being something that we, as a species, are to blame for to it being a single individual or small team who are to blame for the mess, because it allows us - the viewers - to cast the blame on the individuals and condemn them for the lack of foresight, ignoring that those characters are metaphors for **us**. But, the alternative is to not discuss the topic at all. And it’s worth discussing because, lack of foresight or not, someone still has to clean up the mess and it’s certainly less heroic to be a person who does not participate in that. So, from a topical standpoint: No issue. But the Avengers movies are just bucketloads of exposition and preening so, regardless of metaphor or whatever else, I’m not too pleased with the movies. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2018, 11:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-super-hero-stories-in-which-the-hero-creates-the-minnis-s-she-must-defeat-bug-anyone-else/814685/48 "2018-05-24T11:18:28Z")
> [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > Oh, you and I never agree, Dibble. I fully expect you to explain someday that the sky has turned orange. _I was walking along, minding my business…_ Having heroes accidentally create their own nemeses (or enemies or menaces or minidresses) gives the writers an excuse to make the hero have a guilt-ridden moment and allow the bad guy to escape at a suitably dramatic moment, thus giving the bad guy the opportunity to implement his Master Plan and forcing the hero to overcome his guilt in order to prevent an even bigger problem. Otherwise the bad guy would be defeated halfway through the film and the rest of it would just be the heroes sitting around eating shwarma for 45 minutes. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2018, 11:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-super-hero-stories-in-which-the-hero-creates-the-minnis-s-she-must-defeat-bug-anyone-else/814685/49 "2018-05-24T11:42:20Z")
> [@Gyrate](#): > > _I was walking along, minding my business…_ > > Having heroes accidentally create their own nemeses (or enemies or menaces or minidresses) gives the writers an excuse to make the hero have a guilt-ridden moment and allow the bad guy to escape at a suitably dramatic moment, thus giving the bad guy the opportunity to implement his Master Plan and forcing the hero to overcome his guilt in order to prevent an even bigger problem. Otherwise the bad guy would be defeated halfway through the film and the rest of it would just be the heroes sitting around eating shwarma for 45 minutes. If you need a longer runtime, there’s always Keaton and Nicholson in BATMAN. “You killed my parents.” “Heh.” [pause] “What? What are you talking about?” “I made you; you made me first.” ---
**Author:** ![Horatio\_Hellpop](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e5b9ba/32.png) [@Horatio\_Hellpop](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Horatio_Hellpop)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2018, 12:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-super-hero-stories-in-which-the-hero-creates-the-minnis-s-she-must-defeat-bug-anyone-else/814685/50 "2018-05-24T12:43:33Z")
Brush up on your Joseph Campbell. An essential ingredient of any great epic is that the catastrophe happened because the Hero could not be bothered to prevent it back when it was still preventable. Ultron is not a huge leap from this. ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2018, 9:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-super-hero-stories-in-which-the-hero-creates-the-minnis-s-she-must-defeat-bug-anyone-else/814685/51 "2018-05-24T21:51:26Z")
> [@nightshadea](#): > > According to the superfriends Superman created lex as a enemy when he messed up an experiment and then overkilled on the clean up … Lex messed up the experiment, which, ironically, was to cure superman’s allergy to glowing green rocks. And that originated in the comic books. ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2018, 9:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-super-hero-stories-in-which-the-hero-creates-the-minnis-s-she-must-defeat-bug-anyone-else/814685/52 "2018-05-24T21:56:10Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > [Moderating] > > **Skald** , given that these text-to-speak errors are likely to continue to be a problem, I’d like to ask permission in advance to just clean up the more egregious ones. Is that OK with you? > > [/Moderating] > > One challenge in superhero stories is that the superheroes and supervillains need to appear on the scene at the same time, or close to it, or you end up with an untenable imbalance. There are other ways of dealing with this issue, but the heroes creating the villains (or vice-versa) is one of the simpler ones. Knock yourself out. And I will do what I can to get you those naked pictures of Dejah Thoris I promised you back in 2002. You need to specify whether you want the Martian or earthling, though. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2018, 12:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-super-hero-stories-in-which-the-hero-creates-the-minnis-s-she-must-defeat-bug-anyone-else/814685/53 "2018-05-25T00:15:17Z")
Ok. By now there’s been enough jokes about the typo in the thread title that it’d be disruptive to change it, but I’ll fix future ones. And by “the Earthling Dejah Thoris”, you mean the one from _The Number of the Beast_? Who would thereby be a reminder of the existence of that book? No thanks, once you go red, you never go… Wait, I’m sure I can find a way to make that rhyme work. ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2018, 9:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-super-hero-stories-in-which-the-hero-creates-the-minnis-s-she-must-defeat-bug-anyone-else/814685/54 "2018-05-25T09:21:46Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > Ok. By now there’s been enough jokes about the typo in the thread title that it’d be disruptive to change it, but I’ll fix future ones. > > And by “the Earthling Dejah Thoris”, you mean the one from _The Number of the Beast_? Who would thereby be a reminder of the existence of that book? No thanks, once you go red, you never go… Wait, I’m sure I can find a way to make that rhyme work. While even Deety Carter would agree that the Martian Dejah Thoris was the hotter, I must object to you or implied liable of NUMBER OF THE BBAST. That book rocks. It is SSUPPOSED to be silly. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-super-hero-stories-in-which-the-hero-creates-the-minnis-s-she-must-defeat-bug-anyone-else/814685.md?page=2)