# Do tall U.S. Buildings Not Have 13th Floor? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [June 2, 2011, 8:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-tall-u-s-buildings-not-have-13th-floor/584119 "2011-06-02T20:24:15Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Wendell\_Wagner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/8491ac/32.png) [@Wendell\_Wagner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wendell_Wagner)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2011, 4:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-tall-u-s-buildings-not-have-13th-floor/584119/21 "2011-06-04T16:16:05Z")
The Wikipedia entry on “Thirteenth floor” is also interesting: > **[Thirteenth floor](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thirteenth_floor)** > > The thirteenth floor is a designation of a level of a multi-level building that is often omitted in countries where the number 13 is considered unlucky. Omitting the 13th floor may take a variety of forms; the most common include denoting what would otherwise be considered the thirteenth floor as level 14, giving the thirteenth floor an alternate designation such as "12A" or "M" (the thirteenth letter of the Latin alphabet), or closing the 13th floor to public occupancy or access (e.g., by Reaso... ---
**Author:** ![hogarth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hogarth/32/1773_2.png) [@hogarth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hogarth)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2011, 11:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-tall-u-s-buildings-not-have-13th-floor/584119/22 "2011-06-04T23:50:44Z")
The condo building I used to live in (in Toronto) was built in 2003 and had no 4th, 13th or 14th floor, nor did it have units #4, #13 or #14 on each floor; it just skipped from 3 to 5 and from 12 to 15. So I ostensibly lived in unit 2016, but on the actual deed it was listed as unit 1713. (The number “4” is unlucky in some areas of Asia since it sounds similar to the word for “death”. I guess “14” was unlucky because it had a 4 in it?) ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2011, 11:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-tall-u-s-buildings-not-have-13th-floor/584119/23 "2011-06-04T23:51:08Z")
> [@Freudian\_Slit](#): > > I doubt it. I live in a building where the elevator doesn’t ding for each floor, and I can’t remember ever being in an elevator that dinged like that. It sounds like it would be really annoying. [ADA Accessibility Guidelines for Buildings and Facilities (ADAAG)](http://www.access-board.gov/adaag/html/adaag.htm#4.10) As amended through September 2002 > [@](#): > > 4.10.13\* Car Position Indicators. In elevator cars, a visual car position indicator shall be provided above the car control panel or over the door to show the position of the elevator in the hoistway. As the car passes or stops at a floor served by the elevators, the corresponding numerals shall illuminate, and an audible signal shall sound. Numerals shall be a minimum of 1/2 in (13 mm) high. The audible signal shall be no less than 20 decibels with a frequency no higher than 1500 Hz. An automatic verbal announcement of the floor number at which a car stops or which a car passes may be substituted for the audible signal. It’s been the law for quite a while. ---
**Author:** ![John\_W.Kennedy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_w.kennedy/32/1031_2.png) [@John\_W.Kennedy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_W.Kennedy)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2011, 12:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-tall-u-s-buildings-not-have-13th-floor/584119/24 "2011-06-05T00:37:55Z")
It is annoying, though, when the “passing a floor without stopping” and “arriving and opening the door” signals both use the same ding. But that’s rare. ---
**Author:** ![friedo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/8edcca/32.png) [@friedo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/friedo)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2011, 9:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-tall-u-s-buildings-not-have-13th-floor/584119/25 "2011-06-05T21:40:15Z")
Today I was in a building that was very odd indeed. It had two elevators, one for odd floors and one for even (an arrangement I have never seen.) There were 15 floors, but no 13th, so the “odd” elevator went 1, 3, 5, 7, 9, 11, 14, and the “even” elevator went 2, 4, 6, 8, 10, 12, 15. Dumb. ---
**Author:** ![Hakuna\_Matata](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/a88e4f/32.png) [@Hakuna\_Matata](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hakuna_Matata)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2011, 10:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-tall-u-s-buildings-not-have-13th-floor/584119/26 "2011-06-05T22:14:31Z")
> [@friedo](#): > > Today I was in a building that was very odd indeed. It had two elevators, one for odd floors and one for even (an arrangement I have never seen.) > > There were 15 floors, but no 13th, so the “odd” elevator went 1, 3, 5, 7, 9, 11, 14, and the “even” elevator went 2, 4, 6, 8, 10, 12, 15. > > Dumb. Wow–that is odd. What happens when one breaks down? If you live on floor 7 do you have to take the even elevator to 6 or 8 and walk down or up? I can’t believe that is more efficient then running two elevators that go to all floors. I have to ask my elevator consultant about that one but I am sure it can’t be very efficient to run it that way. ---
**Author:** ![friedo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/8edcca/32.png) [@friedo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/friedo)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2011, 10:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-tall-u-s-buildings-not-have-13th-floor/584119/27 "2011-06-05T22:50:26Z")
> [@Hakuna\_Matata](#): > > Wow–that is odd. What happens when one breaks down? If you live on floor 7 do you have to take the even elevator to 6 or 8 and walk down or up? I can’t believe that is more efficient then running two elevators that go to all floors. I have to ask my elevator consultant about that one but I am sure it can’t be very efficient to run it that way. I assume you would have to go down one flight and take the other elevator. As far as I could tell, the shafts were sealed on the floors where a particular elevator did not stop, so it could not be drafted to serve the whole building. I, of course, had an appointment on the 14th floor, and naively got into the “even” elevator. I ended up taking it to 15 and walking down. Even without the 13th floor mess, the odd/even arrangement is quite baffling. Usually you have one elevator (or group of elevators) serving the lobby and the lower half of the building, and the other elevator serving the lobby and the upper half. The advantage of this is you can reclaim the shaft space of the lower-half elevator in the upper-half of the building. Not so with the odd/even arrangement. ---
**Author:** ![matt\_mcl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7ab992/32.png) [@matt\_mcl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/matt_mcl)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2011, 10:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-tall-u-s-buildings-not-have-13th-floor/584119/28 "2011-06-05T22:52:48Z")
I’ve seen both in Montreal. My current workplace does have a 13th floor but it is a SRS BSNS government building. ---
**Author:** ![Siam\_Sam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d78d45/32.png) [@Siam\_Sam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siam_Sam)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2011, 3:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-tall-u-s-buildings-not-have-13th-floor/584119/29 "2011-06-06T03:08:29Z")
The Hale Manoa residence hall at the East West Center on the University of Hawaii campus is exactly 13 stories tall, but that floor is either 12A or 12B, can’t remember. The elevators stop only at floors 3, 6, 9, and 12. The doors open onto a building-wide landing, from where you walk up one floor to, say, floor 6A or down one to floor 6B. Or up one to 6B and down one to 6A. One or the other. A unique arrangement. ---
**Author:** ![friedo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/8edcca/32.png) [@friedo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/friedo)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2011, 3:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-tall-u-s-buildings-not-have-13th-floor/584119/30 "2011-06-06T03:48:37Z")
> [@Siam\_Sam](#): > > The Hale Manoa residence hall at the East West Center on the University of Hawaii campus is exactly 13 stories tall, but that floor is either 12A or 12B, can’t remember. The elevators stop only at floors 3, 6, 9, and 12. The doors open onto a building-wide landing, from where you walk up one floor to, say, floor 6A or down one to floor 6B. Or up one to 6B and down one to 6A. One or the other. A unique arrangement. One of the dorms at my high school was kind of like that. The third and fourth floors shared a split-level elevator lobby, so the elevator only made one stop to serve the top two floors, and you had to take the stairs up or down half a floor to get to your room. 'Twould not fly under ADA regs today, I imagine. ---
**Author:** ![TubaDiva](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tubadiva/32/507_2.png) [@TubaDiva](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TubaDiva)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2011, 2:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-tall-u-s-buildings-not-have-13th-floor/584119/31 "2011-06-06T14:19:55Z")
Since there is no column on this, I’m moving the query to General Questions. ---
**Author:** ![Markxxx](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/5daacb/32.png) [@Markxxx](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Markxxx)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2011, 2:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-tall-u-s-buildings-not-have-13th-floor/584119/32 "2011-06-06T14:32:39Z")
I worked in quite a few hotels and most, but not all skipped the 13th floor. One of them was lucky to have 13 floors in total so, above the 12th floor was called the “Penthouse” floor. Then we had another hotel that was labled 11, 12, concierge, 14, 15, 16 I worked at another that had a 13th floor but put the hotel offices and shops on the 13th floor so that the guests wouldn’t have to be there. It doesn’t matter anyway because it’s the actual FLOOR that’s unlucky, you can call a skunk a rose, but it still stinks. Oh yeah and don’t for our non-American friends, don’t forget, we Americans start out with the ground floor as being the first floor. I worked at one “European style” hotel in Florida which labeled the floors, ground floor, 1st floor, 2nd floor etc…Which would be what most Americans think of 1st floor, 2nd floor, 3rd floor… ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2011, 2:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-tall-u-s-buildings-not-have-13th-floor/584119/33 "2011-06-06T14:41:57Z")
My (UK) office building is less than 20 years old and goes from 12 to 14, so the floor labelled “14” is actually the 13th floor.\* \*And of course in the usual European tradition the 1st floor is the floor above Ground. ---
**Author:** ![friedo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/8edcca/32.png) [@friedo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/friedo)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2011, 2:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-tall-u-s-buildings-not-have-13th-floor/584119/34 "2011-06-06T14:54:33Z")
> [@Markxxx](#): > > Oh yeah and don’t for our non-American friends, don’t forget, we Americans start out with the ground floor as being the first floor. I worked at one “European style” hotel in Florida which labeled the floors, ground floor, 1st floor, 2nd floor etc…Which would be what most Americans think of 1st floor, 2nd floor, 3rd floor… This is by no means universal. There are a lot of building in New York City where the ground/lobby floor is separate from the first floor. I live in one. ---
**Author:** ![regginbrow](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ba9def/32.png) [@regginbrow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/regginbrow)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2011, 4:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-tall-u-s-buildings-not-have-13th-floor/584119/35 "2011-06-06T16:41:49Z")
East Asian countries have a similar cultural fear of the number four. The word for the number sounds quite similar to the word for death in a number of languages over there. No idea how prevalent, but apparently not only is the fourth floor sometimes skipped, but also fourteenth, twenty-fourth, etc. The Wikipedia article has a picture of an elevator in a building such as this. [https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/Tetraphobia](https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/Tetraphobia) ---
**Author:** ![Diceman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Diceman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diceman)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2011, 4:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-tall-u-s-buildings-not-have-13th-floor/584119/36 "2011-06-06T16:46:51Z")
> [@friedo](#): > > This is by no means universal. There are a lot of building in New York City where the ground/lobby floor is separate from the first floor. I live in one. Not universal, but it is the norm in the United States. Also, if the building has a “Ground Floor,” then that floor is usually at least partially below grade, and could be considered a basement. ---
**Author:** ![Omar\_Little](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omar_little/32/269_2.png) [@Omar\_Little](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omar_Little)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2011, 4:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-tall-u-s-buildings-not-have-13th-floor/584119/37 "2011-06-06T16:46:52Z")
> [@Gyrate](#): > > \*And of course in the usual European tradition the 1st floor is the floor above Ground. Which of course makes no sense at all. As if the ground floor doesn’t count. ---
**Author:** ![Diceman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Diceman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diceman)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2011, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-tall-u-s-buildings-not-have-13th-floor/584119/38 "2011-06-06T16:49:23Z")
> [@regginbrow](#): > > East Asian countries have a similar cultural fear of the number four. The word for the number sounds quite similar to the word for death in a number of languages over there. No idea how prevalent, but apparently not only is the fourth floor sometimes skipped, but also fourteenth, twenty-fourth, etc. The Wikipedia article has a picture of an elevator in a building such as this. > > [https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/Tetraphobia](https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/Tetraphobia) Interestingly, in that building, the basement is labelled “-1”. Does anybody have any idea if this is common in Asia? ---
**Author:** ![constanze](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f9ae1b/32.png) [@constanze](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/constanze)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2011, 5:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-tall-u-s-buildings-not-have-13th-floor/584119/39 "2011-06-06T17:03:51Z")
> [@focusoninfinity](#): > > 1. I think the Empire State Building, and perhaps the Chrysler Building also, has pseudo “historical” gar-gals (spell-check is not helping here) guarding them? What are they guarding against ? I think the word you are looking for is “[Gargoyle](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gargoyle)”. They go back (like a lot of the other superstition) to Medieval times, and are to guard against evil spirits entering the Church (originally). For that purpose, they are very ugly, to frighten the spirits away. They also served as outpours for the rainwater. ---
**Author:** ![constanze](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f9ae1b/32.png) [@constanze](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/constanze)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2011, 5:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-tall-u-s-buildings-not-have-13th-floor/584119/40 "2011-06-06T17:07:05Z")
> [@focusoninfinity](#): > > 1. Was this stricture practiced elsewhere prior to the U.S.? Did the Soviets do it first? The [superstition](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Triskaidekaphobia) that [13 is unlucky](http://www.straightdope.com/columns/read/670/why-is-the-number-13-considered-unlucky) is an old one, but observed differential in different countries. I doubt that the Soviets as communist atheists followed this practice, but don’t have data to back this hunch. > [@](#): > > 1. Similar–to me odd–customs in tall U.S. buildings? For example, in tall oriental owned U.S. buildings; do any have a zag in the front entry passage so “bad spirits” can’t get in? That’s the Asian culture you’re thinking of. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-tall-u-s-buildings-not-have-13th-floor/584119.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-tall-u-s-buildings-not-have-13th-floor/584119.md?page=3)