# Do tall U.S. Buildings Not Have 13th Floor? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [June 2, 2011, 8:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-tall-u-s-buildings-not-have-13th-floor/584119 "2011-06-02T20:24:15Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Heracles](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/heracles/32/487_2.png) [@Heracles](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Heracles)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2011, 5:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-tall-u-s-buildings-not-have-13th-floor/584119/41 "2011-06-06T17:08:07Z")
> [@Omar\_Little](#): > > Which of course makes no sense at all. As if the ground floor doesn’t count. It’s more of a language thing. In French there’s a word for the ground level of a house (_rez-de-chaussée_) and a separate word for the level above, _l’étage_. If there are more levels above that, then the first _étage_ is the one right above the ground level / _rez-de-chaussée_, and the second _étage_ is above that one, etc. When you translate it into English the numbers make no sense because the word “floor” obviously applies to the “ground floor” as well as the ones above it. ---
**Author:** ![SciFiSam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/47e85d/32.png) [@SciFiSam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SciFiSam)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2011, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-tall-u-s-buildings-not-have-13th-floor/584119/42 "2011-06-06T17:12:21Z")
> [@DCnDC](#): > > Not necessarily. It’s common in hotels, but AFAIK most non-residential buildings do in fact have a 13th floor. Buildings lacking a 13th floor often skip to 14 or designate it 12A or M (the 13th letter of the alphabet). There may also actually be a 13th floor but it’s not open to the public and used as a mechanical floor. > > Can’t help you with the rest of that. The M stands for mezzanine, even if that 13th floor isn’t really a mezzanine - it’s one of the letters commonly available for elevators, so convenient as a replacement. ---
**Author:** ![constanze](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f9ae1b/32.png) [@constanze](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/constanze)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2011, 5:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-tall-u-s-buildings-not-have-13th-floor/584119/43 "2011-06-06T17:18:15Z")
> [@focusoninfinity](#): > > Wendell is so correct, the Wikipedia link on gargoyles is outstanding, especially the word etymology section. As long as you don’t confuse them with the other[type of Gargoyle](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trolls_(Discworld)#Gargoyles)… > [@](#): > > Mentioned is gurgling gargoyles: I’ve seen and heard “gurgling” or burping water pitchers; do any building gargoyles actually gurgle or burp? I wish I could get my animal “spitter” in my yard water-fountain to audibly gurgle. I think this effect could be built into yard fountains? The gurgling is a side effect, not a feature, on lots of rain water running through a channel. If you want to recreate it, I’d consult a plumber and experiment with different bent pipe shapes or holes in the pipe. ---
**Author:** ![Omar\_Little](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omar_little/32/269_2.png) [@Omar\_Little](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omar_Little)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2011, 5:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-tall-u-s-buildings-not-have-13th-floor/584119/44 "2011-06-06T17:26:02Z")
> [@Heracles](#): > > It’s more of a language thing. In French there’s a word for the ground level of a house (_rez-de-chaussée_) and a separate word for the level above, _l’étage_. If there are more levels above that, then the first _étage_ is the one right above the ground level / _rez-de-chaussée_, and the second _étage_ is above that one, etc. > > When you translate it into English the numbers make no sense because the word “floor” obviously applies to the “ground floor” as well as the ones above it. So in France, if you have four children, do you count them in a similar fashion? Firstborn child; first child after firstborn; second child after firstborn; and third child after firstborn. See how stupid that sounds. ---
**Author:** ![Lasciel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e79b87/32.png) [@Lasciel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lasciel)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2011, 5:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-tall-u-s-buildings-not-have-13th-floor/584119/45 "2011-06-06T17:53:42Z")
Worked as a courier in a medium sized southern city for about 2 years. About 2/3rds of them had a 13th floor. The third that didn’t was pretty universally the older buildings, and I found out that the glaring “new building” exception was actually a huge remodel, and they took a survey and people wanted the elevator to keep skipping 13. Mostly it just went 11, 12, 14, 15… Two buildings (both in the same style) had 12A and 12B, and in those two, 12B wasn’t a viable elevator stop - there was no button for it, just a space on the grid. I wasn’t able to tell conclusively if there was a 12B floor for maintenance or whatnot, or if they just put a space on the button grid to make the numbering consistent (begs the question: consistent with what?). Regarding ground floors, that’s a bit trickier. What I saw most often was L or G 2 3 4 … So there, the “first” (usually the street-entry) floor is CALLED the lobby or ground floor and indicated as such on the elevator buttons (as L or G, resepectively) and then the next floor is just 2. Rarely, I saw: 1 2 3 … And only once I saw: G 1 2 3 … which I thought was just weird all the way around. Oddly enough, in that building, the street-entry level (G) wasn’t the main entry level (from the lobby of another building) so maybe that had something to do with it? ---
**Author:** ![A.Gwilliam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ea5d25/32.png) [@A.Gwilliam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/A.Gwilliam)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2011, 6:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-tall-u-s-buildings-not-have-13th-floor/584119/46 "2011-06-06T18:25:10Z")
> [@Omar\_Little](#): > > So in France, if you have four children, do you count them in a similar fashion? > > Firstborn child; first child after firstborn; second child after firstborn; and third child after firstborn. See how stupid that sounds. So your child is born on April 4, 2007. Her “first” “birthday” is on April 4, 2008. Her “second” “birthday” is April 4, 2009… See how stupid that sounds? :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![commasense](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/commasense/32/3017_2.png) [@commasense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/commasense)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2011, 8:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-tall-u-s-buildings-not-have-13th-floor/584119/47 "2011-06-06T20:05:49Z")
I asked Cecil many of the OP’s questions more than eight years ago, but he declined to answer them in the column. Instead, I got an e-mail from **C K Dexter Haven** suggesting I ask them here at the SDMB. It was my [first post here](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=169515&). (This may be the source of **C K** ’s memory of a column.) It looks like you’re getting better answers than I did in 2003, and you also have the benefit of the Wikipedia page, which hadn’t been created back then. ---
**Author:** ![matt\_mcl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7ab992/32.png) [@matt\_mcl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/matt_mcl)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2011, 8:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-tall-u-s-buildings-not-have-13th-floor/584119/48 "2011-06-06T20:16:33Z")
> [@Omar\_Little](#): > > So in France, if you have four children, do you count them in a similar fashion? > > Firstborn child; first child after firstborn; second child after firstborn; and third child after firstborn. See how stupid that sounds. You missed the point. The point is that there are two words that refer to what we would call the first and second floor of a two-storey building: _rez-de-chaussée_ and _étage._ If you add another storey on top of that, it becomes the _deuxième étage_. The _rez-de-chaussée_ isn’t the “zeroth” _étage_. It’s simply not an _étage_ at all, since _étage_ means an upper storey. You may find this stupid, but it wasn’t set up to please you. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2011, 8:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-tall-u-s-buildings-not-have-13th-floor/584119/49 "2011-06-06T20:33:58Z")
Quoth **friedo** : > [@](#): > > Today I was in a building that was very odd indeed. It had two elevators, one for odd floors and one for even (an arrangement I have never seen.) It probably actually only had one elevator, with a two-story car. You can get more throughput that way while only needing a single shaft-- With, of course, the cost being that you sometimes have to go up or down a flight of stairs to get where you’re going. ---
**Author:** ![Blakeyrat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ecd19e/32.png) [@Blakeyrat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blakeyrat)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2011, 10:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-tall-u-s-buildings-not-have-13th-floor/584119/50 "2011-06-06T22:30:05Z")
I’ve never seen a building that skipped 13 in Seattle, so I always kind of assumed this was an East Coast thing. Surprised to learn from this thread that there are some buildings on the West Coast that skip 13. Our oldest skyscraper, Smith Tower, completed in 1914 has a 13th floor. The building my office is in, completed 1930, also has a 13th floor. Does anybody know of any Seattle buildings that skip 13? Now I’m curious. ---
**Author:** ![friedo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/8edcca/32.png) [@friedo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/friedo)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2011, 12:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-tall-u-s-buildings-not-have-13th-floor/584119/51 "2011-06-07T00:40:07Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > Quoth **friedo** :It probably actually only had one elevator, with a two-story car. You can get more throughput that way while only needing a single shaft-- With, of course, the cost being that you sometimes have to go up or down a flight of stairs to get where you’re going. No, they were in parallel shafts (and both stopped in the lobby.) ---
**Author:** ![Princhester](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3e96dc/32.png) [@Princhester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Princhester)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2011, 2:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-tall-u-s-buildings-not-have-13th-floor/584119/52 "2011-06-07T02:07:40Z")
My office building has the machinery on the 13th floor. This [became very important recently](http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2011/01/12/3111441.htm). The high location of almost all machinery meant this building re-opened way before many buildings with machinery in the basement. ---
**Author:** ![Siam\_Sam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d78d45/32.png) [@Siam\_Sam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siam_Sam)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2011, 4:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-tall-u-s-buildings-not-have-13th-floor/584119/53 "2011-06-07T04:34:47Z")
> [@Gyrate](#): > > \*And of course in the usual European tradition the 1st floor is the floor above Ground. > [@Omar\_Little](#): > > Which of course makes no sense at all. As if the ground floor doesn’t count. It gets even more confusuing in Thailand, where some buildings follow one style and others the other style. I’ve always put it down to whether the architects were American- or British-trained. > [@constanze](#): > > That’s the Asian culture you’re thinking of. Chinese, mostly. That’s very rare in Southeast Asia apart from ethnic-Chinese communities. ---
**Author:** ![commasense](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/commasense/32/3017_2.png) [@commasense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/commasense)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2011, 2:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-tall-u-s-buildings-not-have-13th-floor/584119/54 "2011-06-07T14:47:00Z")
> [@Blakeyrat](#): > > I’ve never seen a building that skipped 13 in Seattle, so I always kind of assumed this was an East Coast thing. Surprised to learn from this thread that there are some buildings on the West Coast that skip 13. > > Our oldest skyscraper, Smith Tower, completed in 1914 has a 13th floor. The building my office is in, completed 1930, also has a 13th floor. > > Does anybody know of any Seattle buildings that skip 13? Now I’m curious. I’d wager that most tall hotel buildings in Seattle don’t have a 13th floor. It’s mostly hotels that I’ve noticed it in. Easy way to check without going there: call and ask for Room 1301. ---
**Author:** ![matt\_mcl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7ab992/32.png) [@matt\_mcl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/matt_mcl)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2011, 4:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-tall-u-s-buildings-not-have-13th-floor/584119/55 "2011-06-08T04:05:25Z")
> [@Siam\_Sam](#): > > It gets even more confusuing in Thailand, where some buildings follow one style and others the other style. I’ve always put it down to whether the architects were American- or British-trained. Same story in Montreal – some buildings follow North American style, others French style, especially newer buildings and government buildings. ---
**Author:** ![tanstaafl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ba8739/32.png) [@tanstaafl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tanstaafl)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2011, 2:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-tall-u-s-buildings-not-have-13th-floor/584119/56 "2011-06-08T14:42:34Z")
I’m pretty sure I’ve seen a Cecil column that talks about 13th floors too. IIRC, he makes a joke like “Of course all tall buildings have a 13th floor; it’s located between the 12th and 14th. The question is ‘why don’t all tall buildings have a floor _numbered_ 13’” Or maybe someone else was just imitating Cecil’s style. ---
**Author:** ![captnkurt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/edb3f5/32.png) [@captnkurt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/captnkurt)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2011, 1:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-tall-u-s-buildings-not-have-13th-floor/584119/57 "2011-06-10T13:59:27Z")
“The hotel I’m staying in doesn’t have a thirteenth floor because of superstition. But people on the fourteenth floor- you know what floor you’re really on. Don’t believe me? Jump out the window. You will die earlier!” **- (the late, great) Mitch Hedberg** ---
**Author:** ![BMalion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e274bd/32.png) [@BMalion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BMalion)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2011, 5:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-tall-u-s-buildings-not-have-13th-floor/584119/58 "2011-06-10T17:04:29Z")
My office building has a 13th floor button on the elevator. I’ve never actually ridden up there so I don’t know, it might be a trap. ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2011, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-tall-u-s-buildings-not-have-13th-floor/584119/59 "2011-06-10T17:12:58Z")
Lots of hotels in Las Vegas skip anything related to “4” in floor levels. The Wynn/Encore hotels go “…38, 39, 50, 51…” This also makes the hotel sound taller than it really is. ---
**Author:** ![caveat\_lector](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ed655f/32.png) [@caveat\_lector](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/caveat_lector)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2011, 12:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-tall-u-s-buildings-not-have-13th-floor/584119/60 "2011-06-11T00:40:57Z")
I’ve lived in several residential buildings in different cities and I don’t recall any having a 13th floor. One in Dallas I lived on the 14th floor - it was a two-story condo. Mine had stairs down a flight and I’m sure the 12th floor units had stairs going up a flight. No elevator stop on the floor between. No floor 13 in the building I live now and it is less than 7 yes of age. Also not in the building where I work - I’m on floor 12. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-tall-u-s-buildings-not-have-13th-floor/584119.md?page=2)