# Do the British sleep with zedzedzedzedzedzeds above their heads? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [October 31, 2009, 2:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-the-british-sleep-with-zedzedzedzedzedzeds-above-their-heads/515803 "2009-10-31T02:32:58Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![KneadToKnow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kneadtoknow/32/3999_2.png) [@KneadToKnow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KneadToKnow)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2009, 12:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-the-british-sleep-with-zedzedzedzedzedzeds-above-their-heads/515803/41 "2009-11-03T00:59:26Z")
[Shaun] We’re not using _the zed word_! [/Shaun] ---
**Author:** ![NinjaChick](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/71c47a/32.png) [@NinjaChick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NinjaChick)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2009, 4:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-the-british-sleep-with-zedzedzedzedzedzeds-above-their-heads/515803/42 "2009-11-03T04:09:43Z")
> [@TWDuke](#): > > How often do actors in American shows have to say “zee”? > > I have heard it in science-fiction contexts. Douglas Adams located earth in “sector zed zed nine plural zed alpha.” Presumably all those zeds suggest what a backwater fringe planet this is. > > In Doctor Who, the Dalek mothership has a “zed-neutrino core.” I guess that’s 26 times as exotic as an apha-neutrino core. _Huh_. I’ve read that book at least a dozen times, have known for years that ‘z’ is pronounced that way elsewhere in the world, and even once had an extremely passionate (and increasingly inebriated) debate with a British friend over pronunciation differences like that while I was living in London…and I _just now_ and realizing that “zed” in this context is just…a letter. ---
**Author:** ![WotNot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e19b73/32.png) [@WotNot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WotNot)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2009, 9:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-the-british-sleep-with-zedzedzedzedzedzeds-above-their-heads/515803/43 "2009-11-03T09:32:03Z")
> [@Cardinal](#): > > This is crazy talk. There are different names for cases? I know I don’t know everything (by a long shot) about Britain, but this never occurred to me, and I’m 40. There aren’t really. It’s just that when children first start to read, they’re taught the sound of the letter, rather than its name. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2009, 11:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-the-british-sleep-with-zedzedzedzedzedzeds-above-their-heads/515803/44 "2009-11-03T11:37:13Z")
It has to be pronounced “zee” - otherwise the song doesn’t rhyme. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Piranha\_Brothers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/aca169/32.png) [@The\_Piranha\_Brothers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Piranha_Brothers)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2009, 11:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-the-british-sleep-with-zedzedzedzedzedzeds-above-their-heads/515803/45 "2009-11-03T11:55:30Z")
> [@Captain\_Amazing](#): > > Zed’s dead, baby. Oh, you beat me to it. ☹ ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2009, 12:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-the-british-sleep-with-zedzedzedzedzedzeds-above-their-heads/515803/46 "2009-11-03T12:06:33Z")
> [@WotNot](#): > > There aren’t really. It’s just that when children first start to read, they’re taught the sound of the letter, rather than its name. I was also taught this way (I went to a Montessori schoolhouse). We learned lowercase first, and were actually forbidden to refer to the letter by name until we learned all the sounds. And when we officially learned the letters, we used the capitals. So I could understand why someone would think the letters had different names for different cases. BTW, did you guys also trace the letters on sandpaper blocks? > [@Gyrate](#): > > It has to be pronounced “zee” - otherwise the song doesn’t rhyme. I believe that has been offered as the reason the letter’s name changed. That, plus the same vowel shift that is noticed in the word zebra. ---
**Author:** ![legalsnugs](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/45deac/32.png) [@legalsnugs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/legalsnugs)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2009, 1:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-the-british-sleep-with-zedzedzedzedzedzeds-above-their-heads/515803/47 "2009-11-03T13:11:48Z")
How does the Alphabet Song go in non-American English? (to the tune of Twinkle, Twinkle Little Star): “a, b, c, d, e, f, g,…q, r, s; t, u, v; w, x, y and…” zed? Or is the Alphabet Song just in America? ---
**Author:** ![WotNot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e19b73/32.png) [@WotNot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WotNot)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2009, 1:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-the-british-sleep-with-zedzedzedzedzedzeds-above-their-heads/515803/48 "2009-11-03T13:18:44Z")
> [@legalsnugs](#): > > How does the Alphabet Song go in non-American English? (to the tune of Twinkle, Twinkle Little Star): “a, b, c, d, e, f, g,…q, r, s; t, u, v; w, x, y and…” zed? > > Or is the Alphabet Song just in America? It may have spread, by now, via Sesame Street or something like that, but I never learned it as a child in England. Just as well, probably. It’s a crap song and it doesn’t scan properly. It would have annoyed the hell out of me. ---
**Author:** ![bagga](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@bagga](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bagga)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2009, 1:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-the-british-sleep-with-zedzedzedzedzedzeds-above-their-heads/515803/49 "2009-11-03T13:24:55Z")
Well, I always pronounce it “zee” if it’s in the alphabet song. Any other way would be madness 😃 I was on the phone to the TV License people last week and I pronounced the ‘z’ in my postcode as ‘zee’ (too much US television). This did not compute for the guy on the other end of the phone and he made me repeat it a few times trying to figure out what I meant (until I realised and corrected myself). Sure, it was my mistake in pronouncing it the wrong way, but I was surprised that there’d be anyone who wouldn’t at least realise that zee is an alternative pronunciation of zed. For OP, I’ve never heard anyone in the UK use the phrase “I’m going to grab some z’s”, probably for the same reason no one here says “kickarse”. It sounds wrong unless it’s in US dialect. ---
**Author:** ![Reply](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/reply/32/15952_2.png) [@Reply](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Reply)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2009, 2:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-the-british-sleep-with-zedzedzedzedzedzeds-above-their-heads/515803/50 "2009-11-03T14:51:11Z")
> [@Gyrate](#): > > It has to be pronounced “zee” - otherwise the song doesn’t rhyme. Oh. My. God. I… never noticed that song rhymed. I always just thought certain letters were emphasized for no particular reason. :smack: ---
**Author:** ![amarone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e0b2c6/32.png) [@amarone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/amarone)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2009, 4:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-the-british-sleep-with-zedzedzedzedzedzeds-above-their-heads/515803/51 "2009-11-03T16:58:52Z")
> [@legalsnugs](#): > > How does the Alphabet Song go in non-American English? (to the tune of Twinkle, Twinkle Little Star): “a, b, c, d, e, f, g,…q, r, s; t, u, v; w, x, y and…” zed? > > Or is the Alphabet Song just in America? In England we have/had a different song. It’s not really a song, more of a melodic recitation. And it ends vee, double-u, ex, why, zed. Of course. ---
**Author:** ![Hampshire](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hampshire/32/4887_2.png) [@Hampshire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hampshire)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2009, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-the-british-sleep-with-zedzedzedzedzedzeds-above-their-heads/515803/52 "2009-11-03T17:12:09Z")
a, b, c, d,e, f, ged, h, i, j, k, l, m, n, o, ped. q, r, s, t, u, ved, w, x, y and zed. ---
**Author:** ![Rayne\_Man](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/df705f/32.png) [@Rayne\_Man](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rayne_Man)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2009, 5:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-the-british-sleep-with-zedzedzedzedzedzeds-above-their-heads/515803/53 "2009-11-03T17:25:03Z")
> [@bagga](#): > > I was on the phone to the TV License people last week and I pronounced the ‘z’ in my postcode as ‘zee’ (too much US television). This did not compute for the guy on the other end of the phone and he made me repeat it a few times trying to figure out what I meant (until I realised and corrected myself). > Sure, it was my mistake in pronouncing it the wrong way, but I was surprised that there’d be anyone who wouldn’t at least realise that zee is an alternative pronunciation of zed. Not only too much American television, but your spell checker must be set to American English, otherwise how do you explain spelling “licence” incorrectly? 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2009, 11:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-the-british-sleep-with-zedzedzedzedzedzeds-above-their-heads/515803/54 "2009-11-03T23:06:27Z")
> [@Hampshire](#): > > a, b, c, d,e, f, ged, > h, i, j, k, l, m, n, o, ped. > q, r, s, t, u, ved, > w, x, y and zed. Lovely, but I’m worried someone will think you’re serious. Our alphabet song simply _doesn’t rhyme at the end_. The kids singing it don’t appear to care. ---
**Author:** ![Apollyon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/apollyon/32/4238_2.png) [@Apollyon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Apollyon)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2009, 12:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-the-british-sleep-with-zedzedzedzedzedzeds-above-their-heads/515803/55 "2009-11-04T00:36:20Z")
> [@aldiboronti](#): > > It’s been pronounced zee in the US since at least the later 18th century and that pronunciation, says OED, does appear to have had some early currency in England. Is there thought/evidence as to whether the US case is an example of either one form becoming ossified, or of regularization : zed is an odd one out amongst the predominant “eee” sound of a, b, c, d, e, g, p, t, and v. Or some other explanation. As to the song, yep, heard kids in NZ singing the last part as: “double-you, ecks, why, and zed”, but I always suffer a moment of angst when reading the last part of the _Cat in the Hat Comes Back_; making Dr. Seuss fail to rhyme hurts. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2009, 12:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-the-british-sleep-with-zedzedzedzedzedzeds-above-their-heads/515803/56 "2009-11-04T00:48:46Z")
> [@Apollyon](#): > > As to the song, yep, heard kids in NZ singing the last part as: “double-you, ecks, why, and zed”, but I always suffer a moment of angst when reading the last part of the _Cat in the Hat Comes Back_; making Dr. Seuss fail to rhyme hurts. 🙂 Actually, it stands up pretty well - although least well right at the end - but remember, it’s not jarring at all to English ears, that are accustomed to the end of the alphabet song not rhyming. In other parts of the book, I’m almost certain the author intended it to work either way, just by altering the beat a little - discussed here: > **[UK/American versions of Dr Seuss book?](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=119496)** > > I am a huge Dr Seuss fan, his books having represented a fair bit of my childhood reading tuition; I am including the books in my own daughter’s reading time. I have The Cat In The Hat Comes Back; the cat wipes the spot off the tub with a dress,... ---
**Author:** ![Francis\_Vaughan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/francis_vaughan/32/3093_2.png) [@Francis\_Vaughan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Francis_Vaughan)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2009, 1:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-the-british-sleep-with-zedzedzedzedzedzeds-above-their-heads/515803/57 "2009-11-04T01:12:53Z")
> [@Rayne\_Man](#): > > Not only too much American television, but your spell checker must be set to American English, otherwise how do you explain spelling “licence” incorrectly? 🙂 Pedantry alert. :o Both license and licence are correct spelling in British English. License is the verb, and licence the noun. If you grant someone a licence, you license them. End pedantry. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Martini\_Enfield](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/martini_enfield/32/11123_2.png) [@Martini\_Enfield](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martini_Enfield)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2009, 1:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-the-british-sleep-with-zedzedzedzedzedzeds-above-their-heads/515803/58 "2009-11-04T01:13:00Z")
> [@Apollyon](#): > > As to the song, yep, heard kids in NZ singing the last part as: “double-you, ecks, why, and zed” That was how we always sang it when I was in school in NZ, too. ---
**Author:** ![Rayne\_Man](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/df705f/32.png) [@Rayne\_Man](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rayne_Man)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2009, 7:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-the-british-sleep-with-zedzedzedzedzedzeds-above-their-heads/515803/59 "2009-11-04T07:22:21Z")
> [@Francis\_Vaughan](#): > > Pedantry alert. :o > > Both license and licence are correct spelling in British English. License is the verb, and licence the noun. If you grant someone a licence, you license them. > > End pedantry. 😃 I am aware of that. As they was talking about the actual object it should have been “licence”. Alternatively they could have said “TV licensing people”. ---
**Author:** ![legalsnugs](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/45deac/32.png) [@legalsnugs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/legalsnugs)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2009, 9:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-the-british-sleep-with-zedzedzedzedzedzeds-above-their-heads/515803/60 "2009-11-04T09:20:44Z")
> [@WotNot](#): > > It may have spread, by now, via Sesame Street or something like that, but I never learned it as a child in England. > > Just as well, probably. It’s a crap song and it doesn’t scan properly. It would have annoyed the hell out of me. :dubious: Well, that was certainly uncalled for. Just because you didn’t learn it as a child doesn’t mean you need to be insulting about it. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-the-british-sleep-with-zedzedzedzedzedzeds-above-their-heads/515803.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-the-british-sleep-with-zedzedzedzedzedzeds-above-their-heads/515803.md?page=4)