# Do the Brits call them Zed Zed Top? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [July 16, 2000, 5:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-the-brits-call-them-zed-zed-top/25744 "2000-07-16T17:06:50Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![curwin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f05b48/32.png) [@curwin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/curwin)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2000, 5:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-the-brits-call-them-zed-zed-top/25744/1 "2000-07-16T17:06:50Z")
Where did the X, Y, Zed deal come from? I’m sure someone is going to tell me that’s the original way. But when the alphabet is recited, Zee sounds much better than Zed, no? ---
**Author:** ![annalamerino](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b3f665/32.png) [@annalamerino](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/annalamerino)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2000, 5:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-the-brits-call-them-zed-zed-top/25744/2 "2000-07-16T17:29:09Z")
I think the original is probably from German, pronounced “tzet”, which is close to zed. And they also say zebra as “zedbra”. Over there, “z-bra” is the largest size underwear. ---
**Author:** ![casdave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c6cbf5/32.png) [@casdave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/casdave)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2000, 5:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-the-brits-call-them-zed-zed-top/25744/3 "2000-07-16T17:38:06Z")
Out of respect for the fact that they are a US band and so local pronunciation applies we use Zee Zee Top too. ---
**Author:** ![casdave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c6cbf5/32.png) [@casdave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/casdave)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2000, 5:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-the-brits-call-them-zed-zed-top/25744/4 "2000-07-16T17:40:55Z")
**Annalamerino** Naughty, naughty. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![dtilque](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d6d6ee/32.png) [@dtilque](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dtilque)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2000, 7:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-the-brits-call-them-zed-zed-top/25744/5 "2000-07-16T19:26:46Z")
That country down there near Australia is actually called New Zedland by the people there… The name of the letter goes back to the Greek zeta, so zed is historically accurate. The American pronunciation was changed to make the alphabet song rhyme. ---
**Author:** ![Crunchy\_Frog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ebca7d/32.png) [@Crunchy\_Frog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crunchy_Frog)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2000, 7:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-the-brits-call-them-zed-zed-top/25744/6 "2000-07-16T19:37:18Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by dtilque \* > \*\*The name of the letter goes back to the Greek zeta, so zed is historically accurate. The American pronunciation was changed to make the alphabet song rhyme. > \*\* And where did you pick up that tidbit of information? Different languages all have different names for the letters of the alphabet and although Americans and Britains both speak “English” there’s no denying that it’s two different kinds of English. It could just be with the distance and time between the two countries American English is slowly evolving away from the British English and we may eventually have two separate languages. ---
**Author:** ![dtilque](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d6d6ee/32.png) [@dtilque](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dtilque)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2000, 10:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-the-brits-call-them-zed-zed-top/25744/7 "2000-07-16T22:07:31Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by BratMan007 \* > > > [@](#): > > > > \*Originally posted by dtilque \* > > The name of the letter goes back to the Greek zeta, so zed is historically accurate. The American pronunciation was changed to make the alphabet song rhyme. > > And where did you pick up that tidbit of information? Probably from misremembering this [Mailbag item](http://www.straightdope.com/mailbag/mzed.html). > [@](#): > > Different languages all have different names for the letters of the alphabet and although Americans and Britains both speak “English” there’s no denying that it’s two different kinds of English. It could just be with the distance and time between the two countries American English is slowly evolving away from the British English and we may eventually have two separate languages. They were evolving into separate languages up until about the 1930s or so. In fact, the English in England was slowly fracturing up 'til then as well. Then along came talking movies and later tv, and as a result the various dialects are losing their more extreme features. Not a complete convergence yet, but they are certainly more inter-intelligible than before. ---
**Author:** ![Tapioca\_Dextrin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Tapioca\_Dextrin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tapioca_Dextrin)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2000, 11:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-the-brits-call-them-zed-zed-top/25744/8 "2000-07-16T23:39:39Z")
And who are these Brits anyway? I’m British. Not a Brit. Are Americans unable to cope with words of more than one syllable any more? ---
**Author:** ![nebuli](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/0ea827/32.png) [@nebuli](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nebuli)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2000, 11:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-the-brits-call-them-zed-zed-top/25744/9 "2000-07-16T23:46:19Z")
Are Americans unable to cope with words of more than one syllable any more? Yup, all us Yanks are 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![bibliophage](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bibliophage/32/7615_2.png) [@bibliophage](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bibliophage)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2000, 11:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-the-brits-call-them-zed-zed-top/25744/10 "2000-07-16T23:48:05Z")
**Zed** dates from Middle English. **Zee** dates from the 17th century, and let’s not forget **izzard** (archaic) which dates from the 18th century and the obsolete **zad**. Apparently **zed** is from Old French _zède_ and **zee** from Old French _zé_. They all derive from Greek **zeta** which is in turn of Hebrew or Aramaic origin. ---
**Author:** ![Milton\_De\_La\_Warre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e480ec/32.png) [@Milton\_De\_La\_Warre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Milton_De_La_Warre)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2000, 7:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-the-brits-call-them-zed-zed-top/25744/11 "2000-07-17T19:02:09Z")
I once heard that in Northern Ireland, the IRA and UDA used to use “Haitch” and “Aitch” (as we say “H” here in the US) as a sort of shibboleth. I reckon Australians say the former, like some of the English. I don’t know about the Scots, the Welsh or the other non-Londoners. I believe the New Zelanders (who get that name from Zeeland in Holland) use “Haitch”, even though it doesn’t sound the least little bit like “Baaaaa!” ---
**Author:** ![DAVEW0071](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e19b73/32.png) [@DAVEW0071](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DAVEW0071)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2000, 9:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-the-brits-call-them-zed-zed-top/25744/12 "2000-07-17T21:35:30Z")
**Colin** , you’re one to talk! As Cecil has pointed out, the British have a pathological aversion to pronouncing anything the way it’s spelled, thus rendering “Featheringstonehaugh” as “Fanshaw”. ---
**Author:** ![DVous\_Means](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9fc29f/32.png) [@DVous\_Means](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DVous_Means)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2000, 1:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-the-brits-call-them-zed-zed-top/25744/13 "2000-07-18T01:40:24Z")
The common usage in Australia is “zed” not “zee”. We pronounce the word “zeb-ra” not “zee-bra”. However, given that our television is absolutely swamped with American culture, including educational “info-tainment” for kids, the pronounciation is probably going to change within another couple of decades. I guess that’s what you get for being the 55th state of the Union. ---
**Author:** ![Tapioca\_Dextrin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Tapioca\_Dextrin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tapioca_Dextrin)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2000, 1:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-the-brits-call-them-zed-zed-top/25744/14 "2000-07-18T01:42:51Z")
Don’t forget Dave, we also add syllables to words like Edinburgh. Apologies for Worcestershire Sauce though 😉 ---
**Author:** ![TheThill](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/35a633/32.png) [@TheThill](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TheThill)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2000, 9:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-the-brits-call-them-zed-zed-top/25744/15 "2000-07-18T09:44:02Z")
It seems most likely that “zed” came directly from French (also “zed”) like so many other words. I can’t imagine how it could have come from the German “zett” [tset], or why this would have happened. “Zed” also has the advantage of being more easily understood (on the telephone, etc.) than “zee” which can be confused with the letter “c”. It is also easier for many non-English-speakers to differentiate. Most Germans, for example, cannot hear or pronounce the difference between a /z/ and a /s/ sound. And since English is now _the_ international language, this is not an unimportant point. Then again, living languages change as a matter of nature, and since American dialects are on the ascendant, it is quite possible that poor Zed will go the way of the Izzah in a century or so, but by no means certain. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2000, 12:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-the-brits-call-them-zed-zed-top/25744/16 "2000-07-18T12:34:54Z")
Thill- Maybe it is the case that it came from French (I don’t know) but it completely makes sense that it would have come from German, as the German influence in English is much older than the French influence (1066 onward). English is, after all, a Germanic language. ---
**Author:** ![TheThill](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/35a633/32.png) [@TheThill](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TheThill)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2000, 5:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-the-brits-call-them-zed-zed-top/25744/17 "2000-07-18T17:39:15Z")
Yes, correct, but a great number or words having to do with education including some of the names of letters were taken from French, since French was the language of the ruling class in England ever since the conquest. And actually, English has hardly been influenced by German, but is another offshoot of the same original Germanic language (as are Dutch, Swedish, Icelandic, etc.) In fact, the Angles and Saxons (and Jutes…) who brought the language with them to Britain are not likely to have much knowledge of (Roman) letters at all. ---
**Author:** ![Feynn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ecb155/32.png) [@Feynn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Feynn)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2000, 6:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-the-brits-call-them-zed-zed-top/25744/18 "2000-07-18T18:19:49Z")
I believe that Mrs Feynn told me that the Americans made some changes to the language to differentiate themselves from their former opressors, the British. I will try and find some info on this and get back later. Being a Canuck we use zed and actually know how to spell humour and colour properly. ---
**Author:** ![jayron\_32](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/41988e/32.png) [@jayron\_32](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayron_32)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2000, 8:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-the-brits-call-them-zed-zed-top/25744/19 "2000-07-18T20:50:01Z")
Ah, the Canadians… aren’t those the people who speak British English with an American accent? I’m reminded of a joke: It’s been said that Canada could have had the best of all worlds: English Culture, French Cuisine, and American Technology. Instead the opted for English Cuisine, French Technology and American Culture… Go figure. ::ducks to avoid being pelted with back bacon:: ---
**Author:** ![Phobos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Phobos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Phobos)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2000, 9:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-the-brits-call-them-zed-zed-top/25744/20 "2000-07-18T21:27:22Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by jayron 32 \* > \*\* > I’m reminded of a joke: > > It’s been said that Canada could have had the best of all worlds: English Culture, French Cuisine, and American Technology. Instead the opted for English Cuisine, French Technology and American Culture… Go figure. > \*\* Which reminds me of another joke (which I’ll ruin because I don’t remember how it goes exactly…) Heaven has French cuisine, Swiss government, Italian lovers, German cars, and British police. Hell has Italian government, French cars, Swiss cuisine, German police, and British lovers. (not my joke! :ducks:) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-the-brits-call-them-zed-zed-top/25744.md?page=2)