# Do the events at the US Capitol on 1-6 indicate that the insurrectionist groups had not been infiltrated by Law Enforcement? **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [January 18, 2021, 11:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-the-events-at-the-us-capitol-on-1-6-indicate-that-the-insurrectionist-groups-had-not-been-infiltrated-by-law-enforcement/930832 "2021-01-18T23:42:13Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 9\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![River\_Hippie](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/river_hippie/32/26_2.png) [@River\_Hippie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/River_Hippie)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2021, 11:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-the-events-at-the-us-capitol-on-1-6-indicate-that-the-insurrectionist-groups-had-not-been-infiltrated-by-law-enforcement/930832/1 "2021-01-18T23:42:13Z")
We’ve known that there are police and military that joined these groups and law enforcement and military has been infiltrated by insurrectionists. I would have bet that the Proud Boys and Booga-Loogies had also been infiltrated by law enforcement agencies such as the FBI and ATF. However I’m having a hard time seeing how the authorities got caught by surprise if they had people on the inside. Do the insurrectionists really have a better screening-vetting procedure than LEO and the military? ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2021, 12:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-the-events-at-the-us-capitol-on-1-6-indicate-that-the-insurrectionist-groups-had-not-been-infiltrated-by-law-enforcement/930832/2 "2021-01-19T00:32:03Z")
Given that both law enforcement and the military have been infiltrated by those idiotic groups, I’d have to say it’s hard to say. ---
**Author:** ![glowacks](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/glowacks/32/5548_2.png) [@glowacks](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/glowacks)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2021, 12:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-the-events-at-the-us-capitol-on-1-6-indicate-that-the-insurrectionist-groups-had-not-been-infiltrated-by-law-enforcement/930832/3 "2021-01-19T00:53:07Z")
I don’t think it was organized groups large enough to attract attention. Whatever people may have gotten tours the day before, they were not part of a pre-existing group, but one formed very hastily for the specific purpose that Trump put into their mind. That’s also the reason why it failed to do much of anything other than get people hurt and killed - there wasn’t really that much planning as to what they wanted to accomplish exactly. ---
**Author:** ![River\_Hippie](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/river_hippie/32/26_2.png) [@River\_Hippie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/River_Hippie)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2021, 12:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-the-events-at-the-us-capitol-on-1-6-indicate-that-the-insurrectionist-groups-had-not-been-infiltrated-by-law-enforcement/930832/4 "2021-01-19T00:58:35Z")
This guy claims to have infiltrated the Hells Angels > **[Jay Dobyns](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jay_Dobyns)** > > Pages for logged out editors learn more > > Jay Anthony "Jaybird" Dobyns (born 1961), is a retired Special Agent and veteran undercover operative with the United States Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (ATF), New York Times Best-Selling author, public speaker, and high school football coach. > Dobyns was born in Hammond, Indiana in 1961, but was raised in Tucson, Arizona. He was a standout athlete in several sports at Sahuaro High School before attending the University of ... This guy claims to have infiltrated Hells Angels and two mob families. > **[Paul Manning](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_Manning_(police_officer))** > > Pages for logged out editors learn more > > Paul Manning may refer to: I’m not meaning to say I doubt either one, just that I only did a quick Google search. ---
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2021, 1:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-the-events-at-the-us-capitol-on-1-6-indicate-that-the-insurrectionist-groups-had-not-been-infiltrated-by-law-enforcement/930832/5 "2021-01-19T01:00:43Z")
> [@River\_Hippie](#): > > However I’m having a hard time seeing how the authorities got caught by surprise if they had people on the inside. Do the insurrectionists really have a better screening-vetting procedure than LEO and the military? I suspect it is more than law enforcement agencies were not taking these groups as seriously as they should, combined with a political environment to treat white nationalists and the like with kid gloves while focusing attention upon BLM activists and George Floyd protesters who, while they may have occasionally gotten out of control and performed acts of vandalism and property destruction, were never dedicated to any kind of violence insurrection or subverting democratic norms. Back in the 'Nineties, and especially after the bombing of the Alfred P. Murrah building in Oklahoma City, the FBI and other national and state law enforcement agencies took threats of domestic terrorism and “alt-right” groups seriously. But since the 11 September 2001 attacks, the focus has been on the threat of foreign terrorists acting on American soil, despite the fact that this has resulted in fewer deaths than annual mortality by drowning, while white nationalist, fascist, and anti-government groups have grown exponentially. And frankly, it is hard to take a group like the “Boogaloo Boys” or “Proud Boys” seriously just by name and description (is it just me or does “Proud Boys” sound like a Village People tribute band?) until you see them amassing enough people to overwhelm a law enforcement response. Even then, they’re not particularly well-organized or professionally lead in comparison to actual paramilitary organizations; their might is in their numbers and show of force with their tiki torches and off-brand GI Joe couture, but they have yet to actually present a concerted action. The Capitol Building rampage was horrific and disturbing, but they were essentially a disorganized rabble that did little beyond vandalism and stealing a few keepsakes instead of actually occupying the building or even disrupting certification of the Electoral College vote for more than a few hours. It isn’t that their existence isn’t concerning, but more for the fact of what that kind of sentiment could be cultivated to by an actually effective demagogue instead of a failed businessman and cheap celebrity who conned his way into a job that he had no interest or competence in performing. It is concerning that so many current and former law enforcement and military personnel sympathize with them, because these are people with the skills and access to weapons that could actually be a real threat to democracy. Stranger ---
**Author:** ![River\_Hippie](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/river_hippie/32/26_2.png) [@River\_Hippie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/River_Hippie)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2021, 1:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-the-events-at-the-us-capitol-on-1-6-indicate-that-the-insurrectionist-groups-had-not-been-infiltrated-by-law-enforcement/930832/6 "2021-01-19T01:02:54Z")
The Proud Boys, Oath Keepers and BoogaLoogies have been on my radar since Charlottesville at least. Frontline (PBS) did a documentary about them a while back. There are certainly journalists keeping tabs on them from the outside. > **[FRONTLINE | Documenting Hate: New American Nazis | Season 2018 | Episode 21 |...](https://www.pbs.org/video/documenting-hate-new-american-nazis-vrbezk/)** > > An investigation of a neo-Nazi group that has actively recruited inside the U.S. military. ---
**Author:** ![Wesley\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wesley_clark/32/20581_2.png) [@Wesley\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wesley_Clark)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2021, 2:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-the-events-at-the-us-capitol-on-1-6-indicate-that-the-insurrectionist-groups-had-not-been-infiltrated-by-law-enforcement/930832/7 "2021-01-19T02:16:14Z")
My understanding is the insurrection was planned in the open, but law enforcement didn’t take it seriously due to a couple reasons. 1. Ideological agreement with white nationalists 2. They don’t take crime or terrorism from conservative whites as seriously as they do from leftists or brown immigrants. Also supposedly (it needs to be investigated) that the capitol police tried to call for more backup before the insurrection but they kept getting turned down. That could be because Trump appointees wanted the insurgents to take over the capitol, but who knows. It needs to be investigated. Seeing how about 84% of cops voted for Trump (and another 5% voted for Johnson) I’m surprised so many of them pushed back against the insurrection. A lot of cops may agree with the far right on issues like bigotry, nationalism, authoritarianism, etc but when the far right start killing cops I’m hoping that allegiance ends. ---
**Author:** ![Hari\_Seldon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hari_seldon/32/5173_2.png) [@Hari\_Seldon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hari_Seldon)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2021, 3:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-the-events-at-the-us-capitol-on-1-6-indicate-that-the-insurrectionist-groups-had-not-been-infiltrated-by-law-enforcement/930832/8 "2021-01-19T15:53:11Z")
My impression is that the FBI did issue warnings that the Capitol Police and the sergeants-at-arms refused to take seriously because it would make for “bad optics”. So instead they got really really bad optics. The mayor of Washington asked for National Guard support. It is still not clear whose decision it was to veto that request. ---
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2021, 3:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-the-events-at-the-us-capitol-on-1-6-indicate-that-the-insurrectionist-groups-had-not-been-infiltrated-by-law-enforcement/930832/9 "2021-01-19T15:55:43Z")
> [@River\_Hippie](#): > > However I’m having a hard time seeing how the authorities got caught by surprise if they had people on the inside. But this is a false premise, we know that the authorities were not “caught by surprise”. The narrative that this happened through incompetence or inadequate intelligence is bullshit. > **[FBI report warned of ‘war’ at Capitol, contradicting claims there was no...](https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/capitol-riot-fbi-intelligence/2021/01/12/30d12748-546b-11eb-a817-e5e7f8a406d6_story.html)** > > An internal FBI report reviewed by The Post is the starkest evidence yet of the sizable intelligence failure that preceded last week’s mayhem. But we hardly needed an FBI report or inside sources - they were announcing publicly on social media that something serious was likely to happen. Between Trump directly influencing deployment and pro-Trump collusion, security at the Capitol was deliberately stood down to allow it to happen.