# Do the Harry Potter stories reference the "Muggle" internet at all? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [November 20, 2005, 8:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-the-harry-potter-stories-reference-the-muggle-internet-at-all/331902 "2005-11-20T08:47:17Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 19\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Rysto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ecccb3/32.png) [@Rysto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rysto)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2005, 3:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-the-harry-potter-stories-reference-the-muggle-internet-at-all/331902/21 "2005-11-22T03:24:25Z")
> [@asterion](#): > > And would that be the Japanese launch, the American launch, or the European launch? The Japanese launch. In the books it would have happened in the summer of 1994, but the PS didn’t launch until December that year. ---
**Author:** ![WotNot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e19b73/32.png) [@WotNot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WotNot)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2005, 9:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-the-harry-potter-stories-reference-the-muggle-internet-at-all/331902/22 "2005-11-22T09:38:25Z")
> [@Airblairxxx](#): > > You know, I’ve heard this timeline bandied about a couple of times. How did you arrive at the 1991 date? As **Rysto** says, everything’s based on Nearly-Headless Nick’s Deathday. There are other hints and clues, but that’s (so far) the only unarguable date in the series. [Have a look here](http://www.hp-lexicon.org/timeline.html) for more than you probably want to know about the Harry Potter timeline. As you’ll see, there are a few places where things don’t fit exactly, but it does seem as though this is the timeline that Rowling is working to. On the other hand, there are enough occasions when she seems to have gone out of her way to avoid making a direct reference to identifiable events in the real world to make me think that she’s trying to be deliberately vague. I imagine she’d like the books to have a kind of timeless quality – just more-or-less “now-ish”. ---
**Author:** ![GuanoLad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guanolad/32/42_2.png) [@GuanoLad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GuanoLad)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2005, 10:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-the-harry-potter-stories-reference-the-muggle-internet-at-all/331902/23 "2005-11-22T10:06:18Z")
Any inaccuracies in the calendar can be explained by the Wizarding Calendar, which for all we know doesn’t have a leap year. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![asterion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/4da419/32.png) [@asterion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asterion)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2005, 3:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-the-harry-potter-stories-reference-the-muggle-internet-at-all/331902/24 "2005-11-22T15:03:16Z")
> [@GuanoLad](#): > > Any inaccuracies in the calendar can be explained by the Wizarding Calendar, which for all we know doesn’t have a leap year. > > 🙂 Heck, you could go all-out and claim that it’s lunar without the corrections needed, so that you get something resembling the Islamic calendar (as compared to the Jewish calendar). > [@Rysto](#): > > The Japanese launch. In the books it would have happened in the summer of 1994, but the PS didn’t launch until December that year Ah, I see. I didn’t remember the launch dates (I didn’t even get a PS until 1997) but I wondered if they might have imported a system for Dudley. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2005, 3:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-the-harry-potter-stories-reference-the-muggle-internet-at-all/331902/25 "2005-11-22T15:11:42Z")
The Dursleys love Dudley so much, and spoil him so rotten, that I think they would do everything in their power to get a computer game for Dudley before it was “officially” released. ---
**Author:** ![Quercus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/7ab992/32.png) [@Quercus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quercus)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2005, 4:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-the-harry-potter-stories-reference-the-muggle-internet-at-all/331902/26 "2005-11-22T16:35:21Z")
> [@](#): > > On the other hand, there are enough occasions when she seems to have gone out of her way to avoid making a direct reference to identifiable events in the real world to make me think that she’s trying to be deliberately vague. I imagine she’d like the books to have a kind of timeless quality – just more-or-less “now-ish”. I strongly believe this. While I can’t offer any examples right now, I’ve noticed this several times while reading the books – talking about events that happened “X years ago” in places it might have been more natural to give a date, and so forth. For the record, I think it’s a good idea. Timelessness isn’t bad. ---
**Author:** ![WotNot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e19b73/32.png) [@WotNot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WotNot)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2005, 5:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-the-harry-potter-stories-reference-the-muggle-internet-at-all/331902/27 "2005-11-22T17:36:57Z")
> [@Quercus](#): > > I strongly believe this. While I can’t offer any examples right now, I’ve noticed this several times while reading the books – talking about events that happened “X years ago” in places it might have been more natural to give a date, and so forth. > > For the record, I think it’s a good idea. Timelessness isn’t bad. One example is the first chapter of _Goblet of Fire,_ where something strange and horrible happened “half a century ago,” when Frank Bryce had “come back from the war”. And I agree, I have no problem with the idea. It’s just that in the later books (particularly the most recent one), so much of the story is told in flashbacks that the deliberate avoidance of date references makes it tricky to keep track of which event followed what, and by how long. ---
**Author:** ![eleanorigby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ee7513/32.png) [@eleanorigby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eleanorigby)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2005, 7:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-the-harry-potter-stories-reference-the-muggle-internet-at-all/331902/28 "2005-11-22T19:20:06Z")
I thought that Dudley had two computers. Harry has no access to them, but they exist in his Privet Drive world, If memory serves (a big if, with me). ---
**Author:** ![iamthewalrus\_3](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/258eb7/32.png) [@iamthewalrus\_3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iamthewalrus_3)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2005, 10:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-the-harry-potter-stories-reference-the-muggle-internet-at-all/331902/29 "2005-11-22T22:52:07Z")
> [@William V.](#): > > The Dursleys love Dudley so much, and spoil him so rotten, that I think they would do everything in their power to get a computer game for Dudley before it was “officially” released. Six months is a long time for something like that. I doubt that the console would even _exist_ at any price 6 months before launch. [Simpsons] Uh, yeah, well whenever you notice something like that… a wizard did it. [/Simpsons] ---
**Author:** ![Rysto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ecccb3/32.png) [@Rysto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rysto)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2005, 11:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-the-harry-potter-stories-reference-the-muggle-internet-at-all/331902/30 "2005-11-22T23:02:22Z")
> [@Quercus](#): > > I strongly believe this. While I can’t offer any examples right now, I’ve noticed this several times while reading the books – talking about events that happened “X years ago” in places it might have been more natural to give a date, and so forth. > > For the record, I think it’s a good idea. Timelessness isn’t bad. The best example is the label on the prophecy in OotP: “Sixteen years ago.” Do they relabel it every year? Maybe the label magically updates itself? ---
**Author:** ![Fretful\_Porpentine](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fretful_porpentine/32/2873_2.png) [@Fretful\_Porpentine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fretful_Porpentine)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2005, 2:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-the-harry-potter-stories-reference-the-muggle-internet-at-all/331902/31 "2005-11-23T02:18:35Z")
> [@Rysto](#): > > The best example is the label on the prophecy in OotP: “Sixteen years ago.” Do they relabel it every year? Maybe the label magically updates itself? The label doesn’t actually _say_ “sixteen years ago”; we’re told that “In spidery writing was written a date of some sixteen years previously,” although the book doesn’t specify what that date is. ---
**Author:** ![Rysto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ecccb3/32.png) [@Rysto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rysto)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2005, 2:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-the-harry-potter-stories-reference-the-muggle-internet-at-all/331902/32 "2005-11-23T02:55:59Z")
> [@Fretful Porpentine](#): > > The label doesn’t actually _say_ “sixteen years ago”; we’re told that “In spidery writing was written a date of some sixteen years previously,” although the book doesn’t specify what that date is. Ah, that would make a lot of sense. I misunderstood something I read somewhere else. ---
**Author:** ![asterion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/4da419/32.png) [@asterion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asterion)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2005, 3:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-the-harry-potter-stories-reference-the-muggle-internet-at-all/331902/33 "2005-11-23T15:37:33Z")
I still wish she’d give some explanation on why applied electromagnetism apparently doesn’t work at Hogwarts. Something about screwing with one of the fundamental forces like that just bothers me. For that matter, why the almost complete shunning of all Muggle technology? Just because you don’t need a car because you can Apparate everywhere or a food processor because you can use magic for it doesn’t mean that some of the stuff they use is just weird. For example, why a quill? A ballpoint would work better. But you never hear of anyone with easy access to Muggle tech (I guess we’d mostly be talking Hermione in terms of the books) pulling out a ballpoint or a Sharpie or anything. [quote=RystoHe could just transfigure the nuke into something harmless, though. Or apparate away from the explosion. Besides(Book Six spoilers): Spoiler: His horcruxes will ensure that he won’t be killed, just turned back into Vapourmort.[/spoiler] [/quote] Okay, take the horcruxes off the table. And keep him from being to Apparate–put him in an area like Hogwarts. And if a nuke is overkill, what about a lethal dose of radiation? Can’t block that or transfigure it. ---
**Author:** ![Rysto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ecccb3/32.png) [@Rysto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rysto)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2005, 4:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-the-harry-potter-stories-reference-the-muggle-internet-at-all/331902/34 "2005-11-23T16:08:53Z")
> [@asterion](#): > > Okay, take the horcruxes off the table. And keep him from being to Apparate–put him in an area like Hogwarts. And if a nuke is overkill, what about a lethal dose of radiation? Can’t block that or transfigure it. Conjure a lead shield? ---
**Author:** ![asterion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/4da419/32.png) [@asterion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asterion)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2005, 4:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-the-harry-potter-stories-reference-the-muggle-internet-at-all/331902/35 "2005-11-23T16:17:47Z")
> [@Rysto](#): > > Conjure a lead shield? Only if he knows it’s coming. He might have a better idea than a lot of wizards, but I bet any second-generation wizard would have no clue until it was too late. Kinda like shooting them. If they have no clue what a gun is can they move fast enough to counter? Especially if we’re talking snipers or something. ---
**Author:** ![tremorviolet](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e47774/32.png) [@tremorviolet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tremorviolet)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2005, 4:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-the-harry-potter-stories-reference-the-muggle-internet-at-all/331902/36 "2005-11-23T16:44:27Z")
I think the whole wizarding world is JK Rowling’s idealized view of pre-tech life. No TV, no internet, no cellphones. It’s almost kinda of Shire-ish. But when she figures out she needs something techy for the plot, she invents a magical equivalent. I read a lot of fan fiction and it’s interesting how the first thing writers tend to do is introduce modern technology into the wizards world. The younger writers can’t even fathom living in a world without cellphones and TV. ---
**Author:** ![asterion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/4da419/32.png) [@asterion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asterion)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2005, 5:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-the-harry-potter-stories-reference-the-muggle-internet-at-all/331902/37 "2005-11-23T17:29:48Z")
> [@tremorviolet](#): > > I think the whole wizarding world is JK Rowling’s idealized view of pre-tech life. No TV, no internet, no cellphones. It’s almost kinda of Shire-ish. But when she figures out she needs something techy for the plot, she invents a magical equivalent. > > I read a lot of fan fiction and it’s interesting how the first thing writers tend to do is introduce modern technology into the wizards world. The younger writers can’t even fathom living in a world without cellphones and TV. I’ll admit that this is probably more a fault of the readers than of the author in that we are doing Tolkein-style analysis on a body of work that doesn’t have that detail and for an author that probably isn’t that interested in it. It’s just that we can come up with all sorts of questions. For example, if you can transmogrify, can you transmute? If so, why is anyone poor? Take a base metal, transmute to gold (or platinium or palladium or anything else if you’re feeling stereotypical), sell for pounds on the open market, convert back to galleons. Of course this would only work for a while in limited amounts but still the theory is sound. Or there’s the wizarding equivalent of radio (and I wonder how it works or what frequencies they have managed to control) so why not an equivalent of television? In the business world is there credit? Has Harry’s pile of money just been sitting there in Gringott’s or has it been earning interest? Do corporations exist or is it all small business? Or take my point about ballpoint pens. We can assume they exist because the Muggle world is supposed to be effectively ours, though I don’t ever remember them being mentioned with the Dursleys. We can then assume that the Muggles quit using quills for the same reason we did, because they’re a pain. Similarly, we can assume that fountain pens are available if you want one. But almost no one uses a fountain pen now because a ballpoint is still a better option. So why doesn’t anyone use them? ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2005, 11:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-the-harry-potter-stories-reference-the-muggle-internet-at-all/331902/38 "2005-11-23T23:14:13Z")
Quills are an easy one. Some spellcasting involves a component of writing. In some fantasy settings (not explicitly Harry Potter, yet, though I wouldn’t be surprised), the magic requires the use of a quill, and often one with special properties (a feather from some magical species, most commonly). Given that you must use a quill for some purposes, it’s much more natural to keep them around for all your writing purposes. As for transmuting, leprechauns can conjure gold, but it only lasts for a few hours. Presumably, wizards have a similar restriction. And gold which disappears in an hour would attract a lot of attention, and thus would be a violation of the Statute for Secrecy (and probably an easily-tracked one, at that). ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2005, 3:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-the-harry-potter-stories-reference-the-muggle-internet-at-all/331902/39 "2005-11-24T03:26:58Z")
Also, having the ability to turn lead into gold would really decimate the value of the latter. Honestly, I LIKE the fact that the wizarding world doesn’t do with a lot of Muggle tech-it’s more interesting that way. Like **tremorviolet** says, it’s kind of sad that these kids who write fan fic seem to think that cellphones and TV are necessities. Who needs a cellphone when you have oh, the two-way mirror, that Sirius gave to Harry. You probably have something like that. Who needs electricity, which you have to pay for, which goes out when there’s a storm, energy that can be wasted, etc, when you can just wave a wand, say a few words, and do it by magic! You don’t need a microwave-just conjure up a little fire and voila! Instant baked potato. And I doubt radiation would have any effect on a wizard. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-the-harry-potter-stories-reference-the-muggle-internet-at-all/331902.md?page=1)