# Do the people of Scotland have their own language? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [November 18, 2001, 5:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-the-people-of-scotland-have-their-own-language/94038 "2001-11-18T05:45:41Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![mangeorge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d78d45/32.png) [@mangeorge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mangeorge)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2001, 5:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-the-people-of-scotland-have-their-own-language/94038/1 "2001-11-18T05:45:41Z")
I overheard a co-worker say that they only speak their own version of english. I doubt that this is true, but don’t know for sure. Peace, mangeorge ---
**Author:** ![Duck\_Duck\_Goose](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/50afbb/32.png) [@Duck\_Duck\_Goose](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duck_Duck_Goose)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2001, 5:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-the-people-of-scotland-have-their-own-language/94038/2 "2001-11-18T05:58:23Z")
In parts of it, they speak Gaelic, which is not a “kind of English” but is a separate language all its own. Otherwise, they just speak English. ---
**Author:** ![Hemlock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/c5a1d2/32.png) [@Hemlock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hemlock)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2001, 5:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-the-people-of-scotland-have-their-own-language/94038/3 "2001-11-18T05:58:56Z")
There is a Gaelic language, similar to Erse (Irish Gaelic), and also related to Welsh and Breton. It was traditionally spoken in the highland areas (there are still native speakers in the western isles). In the lowlands, people traditionally spoke a variant of English known as Scots. Robbie Burns, the poet, wrote in this language. Today, educated people in Scotland speak standard English with a distinct accent (the most trusted regional accent in the UK, according to opinion polls). The less educated use more old Scots words and can have very heavy accents. ---
**Author:** ![Duck\_Duck\_Goose](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/50afbb/32.png) [@Duck\_Duck\_Goose](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duck_Duck_Goose)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2001, 6:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-the-people-of-scotland-have-their-own-language/94038/4 "2001-11-18T06:03:41Z")
It’s possible your friend is referring to a strongly accented version of English, almost dialect–the kind of English they speak in Glasgow (“Glaswegian”?), which is reportedly nearly incomprehensible to anyone who didn’t grow up with it. ---
**Author:** ![Wendell\_Wagner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/8491ac/32.png) [@Wendell\_Wagner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wendell_Wagner)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2001, 6:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-the-people-of-scotland-have-their-own-language/94038/5 "2001-11-18T06:12:20Z")
In parts of Scotland, the dialect of English spoken is so different from standard English (both from standard British English and standard American English) that some people speak of it as being a separate language called Scots. For instance, Ethnologue, which tends to be enthusiastic about splitting off dialects into separate languages, calls Scots a different language. See the following URL: [http://www.ethnologue.com//show\_family.asp?name=Indo-European&subid=629](http://www.ethnologue.com//show_family.asp?name=Indo%2DEuropean&subid=629) This is a matter of controversy whether it’s just a nearly imcomprehensible dialect or a very close but different language. ---
**Author:** ![Hemlock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/c5a1d2/32.png) [@Hemlock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hemlock)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2001, 6:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-the-people-of-scotland-have-their-own-language/94038/6 "2001-11-18T06:42:29Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Wendell Wagner \* > \*\*This is a matter of controversy whether it’s just a nearly imcomprehensible dialect or a very close but different language. \*\* I don’t think it really is controversial at all. It’s an excellent example about how there is no scientific way of defining a “language”, a “dialect”, a “regional variant”, or whatever. To see how similar they are, try reading the first para without looking at the second… SCOTS \*\*The kintra we nou ken as Scotlan his bin pairtit bi leid fur mair nor twa thousant yeir. In the Roman Eild, the Britons byded in the south o the kintra an thair leid wis a forebeir o modren Welsh. Bit in the unvinkisht north they spak Pictish, o whilk puckle is kent. Whan the Romans quat, new invaders cam in, the Gaelic-speikin Scotti frae Erlan in about AD five hunner an the Angles frae Northumberlan tha spok a norlan kin o Anglo Saxon. \*\* ENGLISH \*The country we now know as Scotland has been divided by language for more than two thousand years. In the Roman Age, the Britons lived in the south of the country, and their language was relative to modern Welsh. But in the north people spoke Pictish, of which little is known. When the Romans left, new invaders came, the Gaelic-speaking Scotti from Ireland in about AD 500, and the Angles from Northumberland who spoke a northern variety of Anglo-Saxon. \* ---
**Author:** ![Hemlock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/c5a1d2/32.png) [@Hemlock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hemlock)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2001, 6:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-the-people-of-scotland-have-their-own-language/94038/7 "2001-11-18T06:44:39Z")
Forgot to credit… [http://www.geocities.com/indoeurop/index8.html](http://www.geocities.com/indoeurop/index8.html) ---
**Author:** ![Niobium\_Knight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/bc8723/32.png) [@Niobium\_Knight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Niobium_Knight)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2001, 6:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-the-people-of-scotland-have-their-own-language/94038/8 "2001-11-18T06:52:16Z")
parts of Scotland have strange words for certain things, and pronounciation can be odd, espesially to americans. Aberdeen is one of the worst accents - Dorick. sounds bloody awful. there isnt really a separate language though, except for those on the islands who speak Gaelic. few people on the mainland understand it though. most people sound fairly normal. easiest to understand is probably the Edinburgh accent (eg Trainspotting, Shallow Grave) worst is definitely Dorick ---
**Author:** ![mangeorge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d78d45/32.png) [@mangeorge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mangeorge)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2001, 6:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-the-people-of-scotland-have-their-own-language/94038/9 "2001-11-18T06:59:39Z")
Thanks, fellow dopers. That’s exactly what I wanted to know. The Scotts version in **Hemlock’s** cite is familiar, but near impossible to comprehend. Reminds me of the dialog in the non-dubbed version of _Das Boot_ in that regard. I’ll print this and take it to him (my co-worker). I’m sure he’ll find it as interesting as I have. Peace, mangeorge ---
**Author:** ![Wiwaxia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Wiwaxia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wiwaxia)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2001, 7:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-the-people-of-scotland-have-their-own-language/94038/10 "2001-11-18T07:48:52Z")
I am not a linguist, but I have lived in both Scotland and England, and I’ve visited virtually every square yard of Scotland during many my 15-20 visits. It would be interesting to know how old **Hemlocks** example of Scots v English is? The Scottish accent can be very heavy, especially so around Aberdeen, Ulster and Orkney and Shetland Islands. (Americans usually find in incomprihensible, whereas I, as a Scandinavian, don’t find it very difficult since the non-English words are often Scandinavian words.) I have however never heard anyone claiming it’s another language, neither Scots nor English - except for some radical nationalists 😉 Gaelic is spoken at the Western Islands, but all Gaelic speakers also speak English, and they speak with less accent since they have often learned English at school, as a second language. Gaelic is a Celtic language just as Welsh and Irish, but none of three are so similar so one can understand the other - they just speak English with each other. ---
**Author:** ![Niobium\_Knight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/bc8723/32.png) [@Niobium\_Knight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Niobium_Knight)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2001, 7:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-the-people-of-scotland-have-their-own-language/94038/11 "2001-11-18T07:59:02Z")
“The Scottish accent can be very heavy, especially so around Aberdeen, Ulster…” Ulster??? since when was that in Scotland??? ---
**Author:** ![Hemlock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/c5a1d2/32.png) [@Hemlock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hemlock)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2001, 8:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-the-people-of-scotland-have-their-own-language/94038/12 "2001-11-18T08:19:47Z")
English is descended from the languages of the anglo-saxons, who started to settle in Britain around 1500 years ago. It received a huge infusion of French vocanulary after the Norman invasion, but that influence was probably weaker in Scotland, so they retained many earlier anglo-saxon words, and picked up more from Scandinavia, and from Gaelic. **Wiwaxia** - I don’t know of the date of that passage. It could well be artificial - just to indicate what the spoken vernacular looks like. I don’t think Scots was ever really a written language used in education, government, etc. Robert Burns’ poetry was in the speech of uneducated people of his time - a bit like rap singers using black slang today. Adam Smith, who lived at the same time, wrote in standard English. It’s virtually a political question. Do you believe black slang should be termed a “language” (Ebonics)? **Noibium** - Ulster was settled by people from Scotland, and you can still hear it in the accent. ---
**Author:** ![Mersavets](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/aca169/32.png) [@Mersavets](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mersavets)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2001, 8:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-the-people-of-scotland-have-their-own-language/94038/13 "2001-11-18T08:34:11Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Hemlock \* > \*\ ***Noibium** - Ulster was settled by people from Scotland, and you can still hear it in the accent. \*\* _Resettled_ might be a better word.µ ---
**Author:** ![ruadh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/d2c977/32.png) [@ruadh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ruadh)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2001, 11:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-the-people-of-scotland-have-their-own-language/94038/14 "2001-11-18T11:22:35Z")
> [@](#): > > _Originally posted by Wiwaxia_ > **I have however never heard anyone claiming it’s another language, neither Scots nor English - except for some radical nationalists** You must not have been paying much attention, then. It’s probably a minority who consider it a separate language, but a fairly substantial minority, certainly not just a few fringe separatists. [This page](http://www.scots-online.org/grammar/whits.htm) is the best web resource I’ve come across. > [@](#): > > Gaelic is a Celtic language just as Welsh and Irish, but none of three are so similar so one can understand the other. Scottish Gaelic and Irish speakers _can_ understand each other, though with some difficulty. Hemlock: > [@](#): > > Ulster was settled by people from Scotland, and you can still hear it in the accent. Agreeing with the “resettled” correction, this is true only to an extent. In parts of Ulster like Ballymena the accent is so similar that natives of those areas are sometimes mistaken for Scots, but that’s _extremely_ unusual over the whole of Ulster. There are some features of “the Ulster accent” (there of course being a number of distinct Ulster accents) that are shared with Scots rather than with Irish accents, such as a tendency in some places to roll the r. But for the most part they’re _quite_ distinct from Scottish accents. ---
**Author:** ![Gary\_Kumquat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/4491bb/32.png) [@Gary\_Kumquat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gary_Kumquat)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2001, 12:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-the-people-of-scotland-have-their-own-language/94038/15 "2001-11-18T12:15:04Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Niobium Knight \* > **Aberdeen is one of the worst accents - Dorick. sounds bloody awful…most people sound fairly normal. easiest to understand is probably the Edinburgh accent (eg Trainspotting, Shallow Grave) worst is definitely Dorick** **Niobuium Knight** , I hate to let facts get in the way of your opinion, but Doric - no k - is actually a dialect, not an accent. I’d also argue that the north east scottish accent is actually quite nice, and certainly no worse than can be found in Leith, Glasgow or Dundee. Or, for that matter, in Liverpool, Newcastle or London. The other slight problem with your post is that for the two films you quote, non of the principal actors (Ewan McGregor, Ewen Bremner, Jonny Lee Miller,Kevin McKidd,Tommy MacKenzie ,Robert Carlyle, Kerry Fox,Christopher Eccleston) actually come from Edinburgh. Perhaps you’re thinking of Ewan McGregor’s Perthshire accent? ---
**Author:** ![Rayne\_Man](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/df705f/32.png) [@Rayne\_Man](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rayne_Man)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2001, 12:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-the-people-of-scotland-have-their-own-language/94038/16 "2001-11-18T12:51:21Z")
I am surprised that nobody has mentioned Rab C. Nesbit’s accent. Whenever I watched that programme here in England I had to switch on the TV subtitles to understand what he was talking about. Still a great show though. Also a few years ago the comedian Stanley Baxter did a sketch called “lets speak Glaswegian” which was a spoof of the language tuition programmes that we get on TV. ---
**Author:** ![Wendell\_Wagner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/8491ac/32.png) [@Wendell\_Wagner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wendell_Wagner)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2001, 3:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-the-people-of-scotland-have-their-own-language/94038/17 "2001-11-18T15:22:30Z")
Hemlock writes: \> I don’t think it really is controversial at all. It’s an \> excellent example about how there is no scientific way of \> defining a “language”, a “dialect”, a “regional variant”, \> or whatever. Um, Hemlock, do you and I both speak the same language? I said that it’s a controversial matter. You said that it’s not a controversial matter, but there’s no scientific way of defining the difference between a language and a dialect. What are you saying here? If there’s no scientific way of defining the difference, then it is a matter of controversy whether one calls it a different language or just another dialect. What did you mean by your comment? ---
**Author:** ![Hemlock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/c5a1d2/32.png) [@Hemlock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hemlock)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2001, 4:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-the-people-of-scotland-have-their-own-language/94038/18 "2001-11-18T16:19:33Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Wendell Wagner \* > \*\*…What did you mean by your comment? \*\* **Wendell Wagner** - Well, your use of the words “dialect” and “language” is controversial. I meant that most linguists have stopped trying to classify speech that way. Related languages meld into one another, and the best you can do is try to quantify degrees of similarity in vocabulary or grammar at various points in the continuum. Someone once said “A language is a dialect with an army”. People call the speech of those who have political power a “language”, while related tongues are dismissed as mere “dialects”. Spoken Mandarin (now renamed “common language”) and Cantonese, for example, are no more similar than Spanish and Portuguese. Tagalog (now renamed “Filipino”) and Visayan is another example. Linguistically, Scots is not a subsidiary or offshoot of what we call standard English. Both are descended from anglo-saxon. If one is a “dialect”, so is the other. Socially, of course, it’s different. You wouldn’t want your kid trying to get anywhere in the world speaking Scots. ---
**Author:** ![sailor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a587f6/32.png) [@sailor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sailor)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2001, 6:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-the-people-of-scotland-have-their-own-language/94038/19 "2001-11-18T18:40:45Z")
If [The best laid schemes o’ Mice an’ Men, Gang aft agley](http://www.electricscotland.com/burns/mouse.html) or [Tam O’Shanter](http://www.electricscotland.com/burns/poem.html) or [Auld Lang Syne](http://www.electricscotland.com/burns/langsyne.html) are English, then I guess I don’t really understand English… Listen to the audio files. I for one would love to have an English translation of Tom O’Shanter as it is the origin of the name of the famous clipper ship _ **Cutty Sark** _ ---
**Author:** ![ruadh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/d2c977/32.png) [@ruadh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ruadh)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2001, 7:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-the-people-of-scotland-have-their-own-language/94038/20 "2001-11-18T19:20:09Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by David Cronan \* > **I am surprised that nobody has mentioned Rab C. Nesbit’s accent. Whenever I watched that programme here in England I had to switch on the TV subtitles to understand what he was talking about.** Somewhere in the back of my head there’s the notion that the dialogue on this programme was actually re-recorded for broadcasts in England. Anyone know if this is true or not? > [@](#): > > Also a few years ago the comedian Stanley Baxter did a sketch called “lets speak Glaswegian” which was a spoof of the language tuition programmes that we get on TV. Now to my ears Glaswegian is just about the _easiest_ Scottish accent to understand. For some reason there don’t seem to be many other people in the world who think so, though. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-the-people-of-scotland-have-their-own-language/94038.md?page=2)