# Do the words "song" and "long" rhyme? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [June 25, 2014, 5:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-the-words-song-and-long-rhyme/691624 "2014-06-25T17:14:08Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Rysto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ecccb3/32.png) [@Rysto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rysto)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2014, 10:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-the-words-song-and-long-rhyme/691624/41 "2014-06-25T22:13:25Z")
> [@cochrane](#): > > All of those words rhyme to me, at least in my head and how I pronounce them. I grew up in western Pennsylvania, USA. > > ETA: and yes, dog, log, frog, and other words ending in “og” rhyme to me, too. But “yes” neither ends in -og nor rhymes with those other words. 😕 ---
**Author:** ![PatriotGrrrl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/9dc877/32.png) [@PatriotGrrrl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatriotGrrrl)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2014, 10:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-the-words-song-and-long-rhyme/691624/42 "2014-06-25T22:19:23Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > Song, long and wrong rhyme. Gong doesn’t. This. Song, long, and wrong are kinda like saw-ng, law-ng, raw-ng, but gong is like gah-ng. AFAIK I have a pretty generic American accent, I’ve lived in several parts of the county. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Drake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ad7895/32.png) [@Dr.Drake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Drake)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2014, 10:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-the-words-song-and-long-rhyme/691624/43 "2014-06-25T22:22:15Z")
> [@Heart\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > . . .My guesses: **suranyi** says “song” and “gong” with a more front, unrounded vowel, closer to “ah”, and “long” and “wrong” with a more back, rounded vowel, closer to “aw”. I pronounce them exactly this way, with exactly the same distinction. Born & raised in Southern California. My mother was from Canada, though; doesn’t \*\*suranyi \*\*also have a partly Canadian background? ---
**Author:** ![Weeping\_Wyvern](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/858c86/32.png) [@Weeping\_Wyvern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Weeping_Wyvern)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2014, 10:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-the-words-song-and-long-rhyme/691624/44 "2014-06-25T22:37:18Z")
I wonder how much one’s position on this “ong” debate correlates with whether one pronounces “Mary,” “merry”, and “marry” differently or not. For the record, they are three entirely distinct sounds. > [@Eyebrows\_0f\_Doom](#): > > This. > > “Song,” “long,” and “wrong” all use the _aw_ sound, whereas as “prong,” “tong,” “thong” and “Hong Kong” sound closer to “prahng” “tahng” etc. > > And dog (dawg) and log (lahg) don’t rhyme either. We are brethren! ---
**Author:** ![Dendarii\_Dame](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/bbce88/32.png) [@Dendarii\_Dame](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dendarii_Dame)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2014, 10:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-the-words-song-and-long-rhyme/691624/45 "2014-06-25T22:49:26Z")
To paraphrase Bart Simpson: I am happy, I am merry, I got a rhyming dictionary. It says song, long, wrong, gong, prong, and Hong Kong rhyme. ---
**Author:** ![Filbert](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/filbert/32/3433_2.png) [@Filbert](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Filbert)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2014, 10:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-the-words-song-and-long-rhyme/691624/46 "2014-06-25T22:56:12Z")
> [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > This is, I think, an example of what is called the cot/caught merger. For most Americans, the phonemes /ɒ/ and /ɔ/, distinct in British English, have merged, so they don’t perceive (or create) teh difference between song & long that suranyi appears to. I’m English, and they all rhyme to me! Mary marry merry are all different, cot and caught are different, but all the long, strong, gong, thong words are all /ɒ/ and all rhyme in my accent! ---
**Author:** ![Seanette](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/seanette/32/9139_2.png) [@Seanette](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Seanette)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2014, 11:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-the-words-song-and-long-rhyme/691624/47 "2014-06-25T23:57:49Z")
> [@Weeping\_Wyvern](#): > > I wonder how much one’s position on this “ong” debate correlates with whether one pronounces “Mary,” “merry”, and “marry” differently or not. For the record, they are three entirely distinct sounds. Not to me. ---
**Author:** ![elfkin477](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/a9a28c/32.png) [@elfkin477](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elfkin477)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2014, 12:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-the-words-song-and-long-rhyme/691624/48 "2014-06-26T00:13:33Z")
> [@Weeping\_Wyvern](#): > > I wonder how much one’s position on this “ong” debate correlates with whether one pronounces “Mary,” “merry”, and “marry” differently or not. For the record, they are three entirely distinct sounds. Nope. Mary, Merry, and Marry are all distinctly different in my accent too, despite not agreeing with you on those ng words. Cot/caught and tot/taught, on the other hand are the same, though. Don/Dawn too. ---
**Author:** ![Hari\_Seldon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hari_seldon/32/5173_2.png) [@Hari\_Seldon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hari_Seldon)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2014, 12:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-the-words-song-and-long-rhyme/691624/49 "2014-06-26T00:20:54Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > Song, long and wrong rhyme. Gong doesn’t. This. For me, gong has the vowel of father. The other three have the vowel of ball. ---
**Author:** ![suranyi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e36b37/32.png) [@suranyi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/suranyi)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2014, 1:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-the-words-song-and-long-rhyme/691624/50 "2014-06-26T01:18:51Z")
> [@Dr.Drake](#): > > I pronounce them exactly this way, with exactly the same distinction. Born & raised in Southern California. My mother was from Canada, though; doesn’t \*\*suranyi \*\*also have a partly Canadian background? I do indeed. Partly Canadian and partly American. I was a very mixed-up kid. ---
**Author:** ![suranyi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e36b37/32.png) [@suranyi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/suranyi)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2014, 1:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-the-words-song-and-long-rhyme/691624/51 "2014-06-26T01:22:08Z")
> [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > This is, I think, an example of what is called the cot/caught merger. For most Americans, the phonemes /ɒ/ and /ɔ/, distinct in British English, have merged, so they don’t perceive (or create) teh difference between song & long that suranyi appears to. Oddly, this is another case where I pronounce them differently while most Americans don’t. By the way, I agree with the various posters who have mentioned that using the IPA would have made things clearer. I’m just not familiar enough with it to use it easily. ---
**Author:** ![JKellyMap](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jkellymap/32/15880_2.png) [@JKellyMap](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JKellyMap)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2014, 1:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-the-words-song-and-long-rhyme/691624/52 "2014-06-26T01:36:29Z")
> [@suranyi](#): > > Oddly, this is another case where I pronounce them differently while most Americans don’t. > > By the way, I agree with the various posters who have mentioned that using the IPA would have made things clearer. I’m just not familiar enough with it to use it easily. IIRC, you’ve spent long periods of time in California and in Pennsylvania. It could be that your speech is an unusual blend of the typical patterns from each of those places. (California is famous as Ground Zero for leveling several sounds into what sounds to many like a kind of “ah,” a tendency which has since spread, with varying degrees of penetration, into much of the rest of the US). ---
**Author:** ![newme](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/e0b2c6/32.png) [@newme](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/newme)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2014, 2:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-the-words-song-and-long-rhyme/691624/53 "2014-06-26T02:51:50Z")
> [@suranyi](#): > > Oddly, this is another case where I pronounce them differently while most Americans don’t. > > By the way, I agree with the various posters who have mentioned that using the IPA would have made things clearer. I’m just not familiar enough with it to use it easily. Wikipedia has an easy to use [IPA Vowel chart with audio](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IPA_vowel_chart_with_audio).Try to match up your pronunciation of the vowel sounds in “song”, “long”, and “wrong” with those on the chart. In my accent, “song” most closely matches /ɑ/. In rapid speech, “long” and “wrong” can use either /ɑ/ or /ɒ/. When I want to emphasize the word, as in “It’s a looooong way,” or “That is just _wrong_!”, the vowel comes out as a slightly nasalized /ɒ/. In my accent I do not merge cot and caught. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2014, 2:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-the-words-song-and-long-rhyme/691624/54 "2014-06-26T02:53:26Z")
> [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > This is, I think, an example of what is called the cot/caught merger. For most Americans, the phonemes /ɒ/ and /ɔ/, distinct in British English, have merged, so they don’t perceive (or create) teh difference between song & long that suranyi appears to. My dialect (Chicago/Great Lakes/Inland North American) is not part of the caught and cot merger. Those are distinct vowel sounds. “Caught” has what I would call an “aw” and “cot” has would I would call an “ah” if I were not to delve into IPA. All the words in the OP have the “aw” sound in my dialect. And the majority of Americans do not merge “caught” and “cot.” Depending on what survey you read, the estimate is about 25%-40% of American speakers merge them. ---
**Author:** ![Pai325](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c68b51/32.png) [@Pai325](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pai325)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2014, 2:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-the-words-song-and-long-rhyme/691624/55 "2014-06-26T02:58:16Z")
Song and long rhyme. Caught and cot don’t. But I was just told yesterday that I have the worst Chicago accent this person as ever heard (and he told me the same thing last fall but doesn’t remember that), so what do I know. ---
**Author:** ![panache45](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/panache45/32/64_2.png) [@panache45](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/panache45)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2014, 3:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-the-words-song-and-long-rhyme/691624/56 "2014-06-26T03:37:28Z")
They all rhyme to me. Dong Gong Hong Kong Long Song Tong Wrong Yup, they all rhyme. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2014, 3:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-the-words-song-and-long-rhyme/691624/57 "2014-06-26T03:37:40Z")
> [@Pai325](#): > > But I was just told yesterday that I have the worst Chicago accent So, does that mean you talk “normal”? 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Lukeinva](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lukeinva/32/17872_2.png) [@Lukeinva](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lukeinva)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2014, 3:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-the-words-song-and-long-rhyme/691624/58 "2014-06-26T03:43:49Z")
> [@panache45](#): > > They all rhyme to me. > > Dong > Gong > Hong Kong > Long > Song > Tong > Wrong > > Yup, they all rhyme. If you go through the alphabet I think you’ll find that every four letter word that ends with “ong” rhyme. ETA: except oong. ---
**Author:** ![cochrane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cochrane/32/10441_2.png) [@cochrane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cochrane)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2014, 6:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-the-words-song-and-long-rhyme/691624/59 "2014-06-26T06:36:42Z")
> [@Rysto](#): > > But “yes” neither ends in -og nor rhymes with those other words. 😕 I was responding to **Eyebrows Of Doom** in post #30. He said “dog” and “log” don’t rhyme. Since I posted right below him, I didn’t bother to quote him. ---
**Author:** ![cochrane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cochrane/32/10441_2.png) [@cochrane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cochrane)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2014, 6:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-the-words-song-and-long-rhyme/691624/60 "2014-06-26T06:44:08Z")
Never mind. I just felt a strong rush of wind right over my head. :smack: [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-the-words-song-and-long-rhyme/691624.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-the-words-song-and-long-rhyme/691624.md?page=4)