# Do they still use low frequency radio waves to communicate with submarines?

**URL:** <https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-they-still-use-low-frequency-radio-waves-to-communicate-with-submarines/560969>\
**Category:** Factual Questions\
**Created:** [November 17, 2010, 1:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-they-still-use-low-frequency-radio-waves-to-communicate-with-submarines/560969 "2010-11-17T13:28:41Z")\
**Posts on this page:** 4\
**Page:** 1

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**Author:** ![Gedd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gedd/32/4938_2.png) [@Gedd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gedd)\
**Post date:** [November 17, 2010, 1:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-they-still-use-low-frequency-radio-waves-to-communicate-with-submarines/560969/1 "2010-11-17T13:28:41Z")

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I know they were using VLF and ULF radio back in WWII and probably earlier, but that is really slow and doesn’t allow much information to be sent. Do they have something better these days?

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**Author:** ![robby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robby/32/11048_2.png) [@robby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/robby)\
**Post date:** [November 17, 2010, 1:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-they-still-use-low-frequency-radio-waves-to-communicate-with-submarines/560969/2 "2010-11-17T13:56:18Z")

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Submarine communications techniques have a fairly high security classification, so you’re not likely to get much comment from those most familiar with them.

I’ll just say that a variety of technologies are used.

You might want to check out this wikipedia [article](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Communication_with_submarines), but I can’t comment on the veracity of the article.

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**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\
**Post date:** [November 17, 2010, 1:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-they-still-use-low-frequency-radio-waves-to-communicate-with-submarines/560969/3 "2010-11-17T13:58:17Z")

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Looks like[ELF is now dead:](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Communication_with_submarines#Extremely_low_frequency)

> [@](#):
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> Until it was dismantled in late September 2004, the American Seafarer, later called “Project ELF” system (76 Hz) consisted of two antennas, located at Clam Lake, Wisconsin (since 1977) and at Republic, Michigan in the Upper Peninsula (since 1980). Before 1977, the Sanguine system was used, placed in the Laurentian Shield in Wisconsin.

> [@robby](#):
>
> Submarine communications techniques have a fairly high security classification, so you’re not likely to get much comment from those most familiar with them.

They offered tours of the Clam lake facility to high school classes back in the early 70’s.

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**Author:** ![andrewm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c57346/32.png) [@andrewm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andrewm)\
**Post date:** [November 18, 2010, 4:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-they-still-use-low-frequency-radio-waves-to-communicate-with-submarines/560969/4 "2010-11-18T04:53:40Z")

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> [@Gedd](#):
>
> I know they were using VLF and ULF radio back in WWII and probably earlier, but that is really slow and doesn’t allow much information to be sent. Do they have something better these days?

Probably hasn’t changed. You can’t argue with the laws of physics.