# Do transgenders who have had sex changes have the obligation to tell their future partners? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [June 26, 2012, 3:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-transgenders-who-have-had-sex-changes-have-the-obligation-to-tell-their-future-partners/626354 "2012-06-26T15:36:09Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![DocCathode](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doccathode/32/18773_2.png) [@DocCathode](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DocCathode)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2012, 10:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-transgenders-who-have-had-sex-changes-have-the-obligation-to-tell-their-future-partners/626354/61 "2012-06-27T22:38:23Z")
> [@heathen\_earthling](#): > > Looks like the research on this has been done on adult brains only. So how do you know that the gender of the brain is immutable? Does anyone know if the brain even has a particular gender at birth? Valid questions Note [QUOTE=The PDF] one [1] male-to-female individual who had undergone no treatment whatever, but who had always strongly identified as female, [/QUOTE] If hormonal therapy changed the stria terminalis, why did this individual who had never been on hormonal therapy still have a female ST? Some of my other bookmarks have expired so I’m off to do more research. ---
**Author:** ![DocCathode](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doccathode/32/18773_2.png) [@DocCathode](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DocCathode)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2012, 10:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-transgenders-who-have-had-sex-changes-have-the-obligation-to-tell-their-future-partners/626354/62 "2012-06-27T22:49:56Z")
[QUOTE=] \*Hormone treatment or sex hormone level variations in adulthood did not seem to have influenced BSTc neuron numbers. \*The present findings of somatostatin neuronal sex differences in the BSTc and its sex reversal in the transsexual brain clearly support the paradigm that in transsexuals sexual differentiation of the brain and genitals may go into opposite directions and point to a neurobiological basis of gender identity disorder. [/QUOTE] From this abstract [Male-to-female transsexuals have female neuron numbers in a limbic nucleus - PubMed](http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10843193) ---
**Author:** ![DocCathode](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doccathode/32/18773_2.png) [@DocCathode](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DocCathode)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2012, 11:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-transgenders-who-have-had-sex-changes-have-the-obligation-to-tell-their-future-partners/626354/63 "2012-06-27T23:01:12Z")
> [@](#): > > Furthermore, a 31-yr-old man (S2), who suffered for at least 1 yr from a feminizing adrenal tumor that produced high blood levels of estrogens, still had a BSTc neuron number in the normal male range (the latest highest serum estradiol levels before death varied between 577–779 pmol/L; the normal range is 50–200 pmol/L). Here we have a man who has had 3 to 4 times the usual amount of estrogen in his system. He still had a male ST. If the stria terminalis was mutable, or effected by hormones in adulthood, this should not be the case. From here, first paragraph under Discussion [http://jcem.endojournals.org/content/85/5/2034.long](http://jcem.endojournals.org/content/85/5/2034.long) ---
**Author:** ![heathen\_earthling](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/13edae/32.png) [@heathen\_earthling](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/heathen_earthling)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2012, 11:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-transgenders-who-have-had-sex-changes-have-the-obligation-to-tell-their-future-partners/626354/64 "2012-06-27T23:24:35Z")
I am not a neurologist, but is it possible that neuron density runs on a “use it or lose it” principle? Maybe culturally acquired modes of “thinking like a male” or “thinking like a female” reinforce the gender of the BSTc independently of the hormonal system. Which opens the question of when in ontogeny brain gender becomes fixed, and when, if ever, it can be disrupted to go the other way. I’ll believe transgender people when they say they knew their gender when they were 4, but I don’t believe anyone, myself included, who say they knew their gender when they were 1. ---
**Author:** ![DocCathode](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doccathode/32/18773_2.png) [@DocCathode](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DocCathode)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2012, 11:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-transgenders-who-have-had-sex-changes-have-the-obligation-to-tell-their-future-partners/626354/65 "2012-06-27T23:28:27Z")
> [@heathen\_earthling](#): > > I am not a neurologist, but is it possible that neuron density runs on a “use it or lose it” principle? Maybe culturally acquired modes of “thinking like a male” or “thinking like a female” reinforce the gender of the BSTc independently of the hormonal system. If that were true, we would expect fey homosexuals to have female STs and butch lesbians to have male STs. This does not seem to be the case. Plus, they took sexual orientation into account > [@](#): > > In the present study, we show _regardless of sexual orientation_: 1) a sex difference in SOM neuron numbers in the human BSTc, with males having almost twice as many SOM neurons as females; 2) a number of SOM neurons in the BSTc of male-to-female transsexuals in the female range; and 3) an opposite pattern in the BSTc of a female-to-male transsexual with a SOM neuron number in the male range. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2012, 12:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-transgenders-who-have-had-sex-changes-have-the-obligation-to-tell-their-future-partners/626354/66 "2012-06-28T00:14:09Z")
> [@tdn](#): > > Exactly. > > That’s not what I’m saying. Like I said, I can’t explain it, nor should I have to. As you said, attraction is non-rational. > > I don’t believe I have to admit that. So, to be clear - you meet a woman, and are attracted to her. You date, even sleep together, and are consistently attracted to her. Then she tells you that five years ago, she had SRS, and suddenly, you’re no longer attracted to her? That’s not a matter of attraction, that’s a hang-up over your expectations about gender roles. ---
**Author:** ![BleizDu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/9dc877/32.png) [@BleizDu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BleizDu)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2012, 5:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-transgenders-who-have-had-sex-changes-have-the-obligation-to-tell-their-future-partners/626354/67 "2012-06-28T05:14:19Z")
> [@Lemur866](#): > > If you’d never have an LTR with the type of person you’d hook up with, that’s kind of fucked up. Is it that unusual though? For having sex with someone I just need some kind of physical or mental attraction. For a relationship I need someone I can enjoy to live with 24/7 and who can support me, and whom I can support, when things go bad. I know many people are different, but I don’t think I’m odd in that. ---
**Author:** ![MrDurden](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ed655f/32.png) [@MrDurden](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDurden)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2012, 7:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-transgenders-who-have-had-sex-changes-have-the-obligation-to-tell-their-future-partners/626354/68 "2012-06-28T07:29:04Z")
Quick question… why do we feed this guy who has joined three weeks ago and posted 7 insanely controversial poll threads? Reported. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2012, 10:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-transgenders-who-have-had-sex-changes-have-the-obligation-to-tell-their-future-partners/626354/69 "2012-06-28T10:43:20Z")
> [@Johanna](#): > > It’s that this subject has been done to death countless times already, and each time it triggers a flood of transphobic hate, as if it provided a pretext for the expression of such transphobia. So damn sick of it. This thread hasn’t been like that at all, IMO. ---
**Author:** ![Ellen\_Cherry](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ellen_cherry/32/3600_2.png) [@Ellen\_Cherry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ellen_Cherry)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2012, 10:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-transgenders-who-have-had-sex-changes-have-the-obligation-to-tell-their-future-partners/626354/70 "2012-06-28T10:47:05Z")
> [@Johanna](#): > > It’s that this subject has been done to death countless times already, and each time it triggers a flood of transphobic hate, as if it provided a pretext for the expression of such transphobia. So damn sick of it. I’m seeing neither “flood of transphobic hate” nor egregious trolling behavior here. It’s a subject like most others that is open to discussion. If you don’t want to participate, don’t. ---
**Author:** ![tdn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/94ad74/32.png) [@tdn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tdn)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2012, 11:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-transgenders-who-have-had-sex-changes-have-the-obligation-to-tell-their-future-partners/626354/71 "2012-06-28T11:37:11Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > So, to be clear - you meet a woman, and are attracted to her. You date, even sleep together, and are consistently attracted to her. Then she tells you that five years ago, she had SRS, and suddenly, you’re no longer attracted to her? > > That’s not a matter of attraction, that’s a hang-up over your expectations about gender roles. You know, you’re right. I have serious hang-ups about gender roles. One man, one woman, and all that jazz. You know what? I also hate gays. This despite the fact that not only did I attend the Pride Parade, I also marched. Free Hugs Division. I hugged everyone that wanted a hug. I especially enjoyed the ones from not only hot women, but hugely flaming gay men. Bears were great, twinks were better. But yeah, I’m a homophobe. Yes, it’s a hang-up. I made the choice many years ago to only date women. Shame on my sinful lifestyle. But I’ll make you a deal. Should I find myself in the very likely situation today of meeting a lovely woman with an adam’s apple, I get her number, we fall in love, have hot monkey sex, and decide to get married, then I find out through nefarious means that she was born a male (God, story of my life! I hate it when that happens!) and decide to marry her anyway… Will you be my best man? Please? ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2012, 11:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-transgenders-who-have-had-sex-changes-have-the-obligation-to-tell-their-future-partners/626354/72 "2012-06-28T11:49:09Z")
My general belief is that, if you’re going into a one-night stand, you should let your partner know the things that you reasonably expect a partner to want to know going into a one-night stand. Looking at the poll results, it’s pretty clear that you can reasonably expect your partner to want to know that you’re transgendered. So you ought to tell. It’s not the partner’s job to ask in this particular case because transgendered people are rare, and it’d be a silly thing to ask in the overwhelming majority of cases. The complication, of course, is the fear of violence, which is a very legitimate fear. Some potential partners might say, “Uh, no thanks,” and back out, which is totally their right. Others might lash out at the transgendered person, which is totally not their right; since the transgendered person can’t predict which response will occur, it’s unclear to me whether the normal obligation to disclose that which people expect to be disclosed applies here. I lean toward “no,” but am unsure. ---
**Author:** ![Blackberry](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ecd19e/32.png) [@Blackberry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blackberry)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2012, 11:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-transgenders-who-have-had-sex-changes-have-the-obligation-to-tell-their-future-partners/626354/73 "2012-06-28T11:51:00Z")
I guess I’ll be one of very few people in this thread (but, I believe, one of MANY irl) who will say that hell yes, they have an obligation to tell, even before a one night stand. They know perfectly well that a whole lot of people would not want to have sex with them if they knew the truth and it’s deceptive not to tell. Yeah, people are going to compare it to other, much smaller things and say there’s no obligation to tell those so there shouldn’t be for this, but I don’t think those other things compare. ---
**Author:** ![Rand\_Rover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/db5fbb/32.png) [@Rand\_Rover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rand_Rover)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2012, 11:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-transgenders-who-have-had-sex-changes-have-the-obligation-to-tell-their-future-partners/626354/74 "2012-06-28T11:52:46Z")
> [@the\_apples\_fell](#): > > If a biological male has a sex change and now identifies as a female, does she have the obligation to tell her future partners, whether they be male or female, about the sex change and her biological sex? Same applies for a female-to-male transgender. I have read every letter of every law, and I can find no such obligation. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2012, 11:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-transgenders-who-have-had-sex-changes-have-the-obligation-to-tell-their-future-partners/626354/75 "2012-06-28T11:54:21Z")
A related question that might help illustrate how folks feel about it: a married person in an open relationship seeks a one-night stand. Do they have an obligation to tell their partner about their open marriage? I tend to think they do. I’m curious whether folks answer differently or similarly for this question, and why. ---
**Author:** ![Blackberry](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ecd19e/32.png) [@Blackberry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blackberry)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2012, 12:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-transgenders-who-have-had-sex-changes-have-the-obligation-to-tell-their-future-partners/626354/76 "2012-06-28T12:02:42Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > A related question that might help illustrate how folks feel about it: a married person in an open relationship seeks a one-night stand. Do they have an obligation to tell their partner about their open marriage? > > I tend to think they do. I’m curious whether folks answer differently or similarly for this question, and why. I’m not sure. Definitely right away when dating someone even casually, but for something that’s understood by both parties to be a one night stand I can’t see that many people being too bothered by it. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2012, 12:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-transgenders-who-have-had-sex-changes-have-the-obligation-to-tell-their-future-partners/626354/77 "2012-06-28T12:09:40Z")
Similar analogies fail, though. I wouldn’t expect a dyed-blonde to tell a partner, nor would I expect a light-skinned black person to tell a partner. On one level, I can punt and say that’s because they can reasonably expect nobody to care. On another level, though, I gotta be honest: I’d want the transgendered person to tell me, and I’d want the open marriage person to tell me, but not the other two. I’m really not sure why. ---
**Author:** ![Blackberry](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ecd19e/32.png) [@Blackberry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blackberry)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2012, 12:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-transgenders-who-have-had-sex-changes-have-the-obligation-to-tell-their-future-partners/626354/78 "2012-06-28T12:17:49Z")
I’d prefer the open marriage person told me too, but I’m not sure if I’d say they have an obligation to. But I don’t think I’d have a one night stand anyway. If I was looking for one, I don’t see why I’d really care. I definitely wouldn’t want to have sex with a transgender person. ---
**Author:** ![tdn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/94ad74/32.png) [@tdn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tdn)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2012, 1:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-transgenders-who-have-had-sex-changes-have-the-obligation-to-tell-their-future-partners/626354/79 "2012-06-28T13:39:23Z")
> [@tdn](#): > > You know, you’re right. I have serious hang-ups about gender roles. One man, one woman, and all that jazz. You know what? I also hate gays. This despite the fact that not only did I attend the Pride Parade, I also marched. Free Hugs Division. I hugged everyone that wanted a hug. I especially enjoyed the ones from not only hot women, but hugely flaming gay men. Bears were great, twinks were better. But yeah, I’m a homophobe. > > Yes, it’s a hang-up. I made the choice many years ago to only date women. Shame on my sinful lifestyle. > > But I’ll make you a deal. Should I find myself in the very likely situation today of meeting a lovely woman with an adam’s apple, I get her number, we fall in love, have hot monkey sex, and decide to get married, then I find out through nefarious means that she was born a male (God, story of my life! I hate it when that happens!) and decide to marry her anyway… > > Will you be my best man? > > Please? Sorry about this post. Early morning RO and being pre-caffeinated do not make a great mix. I take it back. ---
**Author:** ![Septima](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/dc4da7/32.png) [@Septima](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Septima)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2012, 2:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-transgenders-who-have-had-sex-changes-have-the-obligation-to-tell-their-future-partners/626354/80 "2012-06-28T14:22:44Z")
For a one-night-stand? Nope. In a dating type situation, it should be disclosed at more or less the same time frame as other major life stuff, i.e kids, previous marriages, zero-status, work situation and expectations for relationship. Which for me would be before sex, but it’s acceptable to leave it until a few dates in, depending on how you run these things. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-transgenders-who-have-had-sex-changes-have-the-obligation-to-tell-their-future-partners/626354.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-transgenders-who-have-had-sex-changes-have-the-obligation-to-tell-their-future-partners/626354.md?page=5)