# Do ugly Americans/Europeans really exist? **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [June 18, 2010, 7:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-ugly-americans-europeans-really-exist/543702 "2010-06-18T19:41:10Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![SciFiSam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/47e85d/32.png) [@SciFiSam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SciFiSam)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2010, 3:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-ugly-americans-europeans-really-exist/543702/61 "2010-06-19T15:59:52Z")
> [@Cicero](#): > > I tell everyone my name is ruadh anyway 🙂 Ah, but how do you pronounce it? ---
**Author:** ![Count\_Blucher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c5a1d2/32.png) [@Count\_Blucher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Count_Blucher)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2010, 4:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-ugly-americans-europeans-really-exist/543702/62 "2010-06-19T16:02:27Z")
Where I’ve been, I always tried to be polite, but I remember some other follow countrymen were less so. In Switzerland I had to try a McDonalds just once just to find out how badly it screwed up the food (and to be able to say I was there). I waited patiently in line, ordered with a smile, & had exact change when I paid. I even picked up my food with a smile and ate quietly at a back table. Not so a Mom with 2 kids from the US, who had given her kids money for food and let them order it themselves while chatting with her friend at a nearby table. The kids came back with their food and one had bought a cheeseburger. Oh Noes! The Mom hit the roof (her kid was allergic to cheese I heard her say) and spent 15 minutes loudly berating the register person and the manager for selling a product to her child that the child had specifically ordered, but that he couldn’t eat. (The child was behind her complaining for the first two minutes “…but Mom, I want a _cheeseburger…!_” ) I was ashamed when she started trying to put the cheeseburger within 6 inches of the counter person’s face and I left in shame when she started demanding loudly not only the money back, but an apology from the register person and the manager to her angry arms-folded self. If my child had ordered/bought food he was allergic to, I would have corrected him. And just thrown out the food. But I also realized that its tantrums like that one which help to give Americans a bad name abroad. ---
**Author:** ![elmwood](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/elmwood/32/3060_2.png) [@elmwood](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elmwood)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2010, 4:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-ugly-americans-europeans-really-exist/543702/63 "2010-06-19T16:42:17Z")
> [@rostfrei](#): > > As I was was walking down the street today, I happened to pass an English pub (I’m in the USA) where they were showing one of the world cup games on the big screen. I passed by just as a goal was scored and I started hearing screams of delight from the mostly male crowd, followed by chants of “USA!, USA!, USA!”. > > It got me to thinking. I remember a thread here a few years ago where a european doper said that he (and apparently most other non-americans) didn’t like such brazen acts of chest pounding and national pride for a sports team on their turf. If I remember correctly, he had just watched an olympic event in which the American team won, followed by these chants. The thread starter claimed that it showed poor sportsmanship to boast about these things. Two words: expat bar. During previous World Cup competitions, the television stations in Toronto would inevitably air stories about immigrants and expats that would gather in bars catering to their ethnic group, cheering on teams from their home country. The Italian and Portuguese crowds seemed far more boisterous than the USA! USA! chanting crowds encountered in some stateside neighborhood bar. For some reason, when Americans cheer on their own country’s teams, it’s seen as a tasteless, boastful and nationalistic display, but when those from other countries do the same, it’s just national pride. If vuvuzelas are seen as “the cry of Africa” and “a South African cultural tradition”, why isn’t the USA! chant given the same respect? Yeah, both the vuvuzela and USA! chant are obnoxious, but they’re apparently fun for the participants. > [@](#): > > This is not really related to “ugly Americans”, but I remember watching something on tv several years ago about a group of American women who travelled to some middle eastern country, and on the plane (and presumably in guidebooks) they were told that they must adhere to the local customs and cover their faces when in public. It got me to thinking, should middle eastern women travelling to the USA be forced to remove their face covering when the arrive on US soil? I think I asked in the past about whether cultural sensitivity classes are taught outside of North America. In one job I had in a very ethnically diverse community, cultural sensitivity lessons were mandatory; don’t think it’s rude when Koreans don’t smile at you, don’t shake hands with an Orthodox Jewish or abaya-wearing Middle Eastern woman if you’re a man, personal space is much smaller for Mexicans, don’t stick your chopsticks in rice and leave them there, yadda yadda yadda. Do foreign tourist guides about the US describe etiquette, tipping, and so on? Are Arab businesspeople taught that if a Westerner accidentally shoes the soles of their shoes, it shouldn’t be interpreted as a grave insult? Are those from Latin cultures told that Americans have a larger personal space zone? I’m under the impression that Americans must be respectful of other cultural traditions, values and quirks, both away _and_ at home. ---
**Author:** ![Justin\_Bailey](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/justin_bailey/32/8792_2.png) [@Justin\_Bailey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Justin_Bailey)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2010, 6:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-ugly-americans-europeans-really-exist/543702/64 "2010-06-19T18:26:50Z")
> [@Girl\_From\_Mars](#): > > Reminds me of my English teacher when I arrived in the US from the UK (grade 8) who took pains to edit out all extraneous u’s from words like colour and flavour from my essays when marking them. Bitch. But that’s not rude. In American English, spelling those words with u’s is wrong. > [@Girl\_From\_Mars](#): > > But in the reverse, when I had earlier moved to the UK from the US I was regularly mocked by my teacher for asking to go to the bathroom - apparently it’s not called that if there’s no actual bath in the room. Stupid me. This, however, is moronic. I’ve heard that some older female teachers would refuse to use the word bathroom because it was offensive to their old lady sensibilities. So “lavatory” was popular even though I’ve only ever heard that word used by grade school teachers. ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2010, 7:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-ugly-americans-europeans-really-exist/543702/65 "2010-06-19T19:46:23Z")
> [@elmwood](#): > > Are those from Latin cultures told that Americans have a larger personal space zone? Sometimes. But too often in a context of reminding us how “cold” and “distant” is “_anglosajona_” culture. Of course travelers seem out of place. They ARE from some other place! Another thing that sometimes happens is that people will tend to think _their_ customs and social conventions are just THE natural and logical thing to do, and _their_ language so clearly pronounced and simple to learn, that you have to be damn stupid to not get it in either case. (Here in PR English is often nicknamed “el difícil” – “the hard one”. I say nonsense, Spanish may be spelled phonetically, but it has 14 distinct verb forms and uses genders for inanimate things. What’s so easy?) The example of the Parisian clerk annoyingly saying “we say bonjour first” is but an example of someone asserting “place”: Since you took the step to try and handle the local language, she had to up the ante to maintain the Alpha position (“Some provincial may welcome your attempt at speaking the language, but WE’re not impressed”). ---
**Author:** ![MPB\_in\_Salt\_Lake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c0e974/32.png) [@MPB\_in\_Salt\_Lake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MPB_in_Salt_Lake)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2010, 7:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-ugly-americans-europeans-really-exist/543702/66 "2010-06-19T19:59:40Z")
> [@JRDelirious](#): > > The example of the Parisian clerk annoyingly saying “we say bonjour first” is but an example of someone asserting “place”: Since you took the step to try and handle the local language, she had to up the ante to maintain the Alpha position (“Some provincial may welcome your attempt at speaking the language, but WE’re not impressed”). As someone who has spent time in several different countries, and has had almost nothing but positive experiences no matter where I was at, I would have just turned around and walked out the door… I can get stamps at the other cigarette store three shops down—Fuck her ---
**Author:** ![Bam\_Boo\_Gut](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8c91f0/32.png) [@Bam\_Boo\_Gut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bam_Boo_Gut)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2010, 8:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-ugly-americans-europeans-really-exist/543702/67 "2010-06-19T20:03:01Z")
Some people become caricatures of themselves when abroad. Their accents become more plummy if English for example. When my order for “orange juice” was met with “anything to drink?” I started ordering “OJ”. My pronunciation of water was also a challenge, so I tried to say it the American way. My ever more plummy friend however actually tried to correct a hapless American checkout girl. “It’s herbs, herbs, herbs. It’s spelled with an aitch” ---
**Author:** ![Girl\_From\_Mars](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/3da27b/32.png) [@Girl\_From\_Mars](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Girl_From_Mars)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2010, 11:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-ugly-americans-europeans-really-exist/543702/68 "2010-06-19T23:49:51Z")
> [@Justin\_Bailey](#): > > But that’s not rude. In American English, spelling those words with u’s is wrong. It’s not wrong to spell those words that way - in America you don’t spell those words with u in America, but the words with u are totally acceptable spellings of the word. Especially in an ‘English’ class, not an ‘American English’ class. Besides, I can accept this being corrected as a child is learning to spell at 5, but seriously, an 11 year old who had an A grade English O level already? She knew my background, knew I wasn’t in the US permanently, and basically told me when I asked about the corrections that since I was in the US I had to do it the US way. ---
**Author:** ![Siam\_Sam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d78d45/32.png) [@Siam\_Sam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siam_Sam)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2010, 2:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-ugly-americans-europeans-really-exist/543702/69 "2010-06-20T02:02:44Z")
> [@Girl\_From\_Mars](#): > > It’s not wrong to spell those words that way - in America you don’t spell those words with u in America, but the words with u are totally acceptable spellings of the word. Especially in an ‘English’ class, not an ‘American English’ class. > > Besides, I can accept this being corrected as a child is learning to spell at 5, but seriously, an 11 year old who had an A grade English O level already? She knew my background, knew I wasn’t in the US permanently, and basically told me when I asked about the corrections that since I was in the US I had to do it the US way. I must agree with **Justin**. In an English class in America, the letter U should have been marked out by the teacher. (I’m someone who always includes them over here if I’m writing for a British recipient.) I’m curious whether an English teacher in England would add them in on the assignments turned in by an American student who left them out? Meanwhile, let’s not forget the ugly Chinese. I recall reading that when China first started opening up more and allowing group tours abroad, Chinese tourists proved to be so rude and obnoxious that the government actually sponsored public-education programs to try to teach them how to behave. ---
**Author:** ![Heavy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/22d042/32.png) [@Heavy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Heavy)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2010, 2:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-ugly-americans-europeans-really-exist/543702/70 "2010-06-20T02:33:52Z")
> [@Slithy\_Tove](#): > > Didn’t it originate with the 1980 US Olympic hockey team, a nadir in our history: hostages, malaise, post-Vietnam, …avacado toilets & mauve blowdryers, etc.? Yes it did.It is as classy as screaming “in da hole!!!” at the T box.🆒 ---
**Author:** ![Pyper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Pyper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pyper)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2010, 2:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-ugly-americans-europeans-really-exist/543702/71 "2010-06-20T02:58:59Z")
In my experience living in Spain, the rudest bunch were the Brits, who tended to get loudly and noticeably drunk and embarrass themselves in public places. I remember seeing three or four large English lads “bull-fighting” with a stuffed toy bull in the middle of Plaza Catalunya in Barcelona. Ai yai yai. Runner up is French high school students. France seems to love to send huge groups of high schoolers on field trips to all prominent Spanish tourist locations. These teenagers have absolutely no interest in Spanish history and culture and would much prefer to flirt and makeout with each other in front of whatever monument they are ostensibly visiting. The politest and friendliest tourists in my experience were the Dutch and the Germans. And while Americans do seem to talk rather loudly in public, I am happy to say I never witnessed any ugly Americanism. ---
**Author:** ![alphaboi867](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alphaboi867/32/3898_2.png) [@alphaboi867](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alphaboi867)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2010, 3:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-ugly-americans-europeans-really-exist/543702/72 "2010-06-20T03:23:45Z")
> [@Count\_Blucher](#): > > …Not so a Mom with 2 kids from the US, who had given her kids money for food and let them order it themselves while chatting with her friend at a nearby table. The kids came back with their food and one had bought a cheeseburger… I’d bet my life that she does the exact same thing back in the States with other Americans. ---
**Author:** ![Girl\_From\_Mars](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/3da27b/32.png) [@Girl\_From\_Mars](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Girl_From_Mars)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2010, 6:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-ugly-americans-europeans-really-exist/543702/73 "2010-06-20T06:06:30Z")
> [@Siam\_Sam](#): > > I must agree with **Justin**. In an English class in America, the letter U should have been marked out by the teacher. Cool - but I still think that the original spelling of the word (as English predates American English) is still a valid form. Additionally for an expat kid who changed school systems every 2 years or so, adapting my spelling to suit the country I was in, in addition to everything else I had to adjust to (in some cases learning a new language) might justify a bye? You might as well demand I alter my accent too, since that’s how it’s said there. Lucky I ended my school years in New Zealand (which mirrors UK spelling), otherwise I might never have passed high school! 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Siam\_Sam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d78d45/32.png) [@Siam\_Sam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siam_Sam)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2010, 6:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-ugly-americans-europeans-really-exist/543702/74 "2010-06-20T06:14:50Z")
Be glad you weren’t like one Brit I went to university with in West Texas. His father was a petroleum engineer, so my friend had to change high schools from London to Plains, Texas, arguably THE asshole of the universe. He had more to worry about than word spellings. Said it was something like “uppity Eurotrash” (their view) dropped into a swarm of redneck neanderthals. 😃 I am familiar with Plains and felt for the poor guy. ---
**Author:** ![Autolycus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/22d042/32.png) [@Autolycus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Autolycus)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2010, 7:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-ugly-americans-europeans-really-exist/543702/75 "2010-06-20T07:34:23Z")
> [@Acid\_Lamp](#): > > _Snip_ As a fellow Orlandian, I second all these comments, although my experience is limited to three years. From a restaurant worker’s perspective, we mostly get British and Brazilian tourists. The British are usually polite and cool, but the drunk ones are the worst of all the patrons we get. Brazilians are pushy and loud, and they come in RIGHT before closing time, but I understand the latter is a cultural thing. All other ethnicities don’t really ping the radar, although I will say that the few Dutch folk we have had all been awesome, and that when British people are awesome, they are really awesome. ---
**Author:** ![ruadh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/d2c977/32.png) [@ruadh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ruadh)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2010, 8:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-ugly-americans-europeans-really-exist/543702/76 "2010-06-20T08:17:28Z")
> [@Girl\_From\_Mars](#): > > Additionally for an expat kid who changed school systems every 2 years or so, adapting my spelling to suit the country I was in When I did a study abroad in London the teachers corrected the Americanisms in my essays and I was only there for six months. I didn’t whin(g)e about it. Those usages were incorrect in British English, the dialect of the country I was studying in, so why shouldn’t they be corrected? If I’d been marked down because of them that would be another story, but I didn’t see anything wrong with them simply alerting me to the fact that these were not proper usages in Britain. > [@](#): > > You might as well demand I alter my accent too, since that’s how it’s said there. That’s not really a fair comparison, since accents tend to be (relatively) fixed and difficult to change. However if you were using other aspects of British dialect which differ in American English (such as the infamous collective noun/verb agreement) it would be entirely appropriate for a teacher in an English class to indicate that your usage was improper in the country you were in. ---
**Author:** ![Cicero](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cicero/32/3594_2.png) [@Cicero](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cicero)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2010, 8:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-ugly-americans-europeans-really-exist/543702/77 "2010-06-20T08:24:27Z")
A quick query- when we talk about “ugly _insert race here_” what age group are we discussing? For instance, the drunken British- if they are a mob of young soccer louts I think they would be equally ugly at home as well. I cringe more when a more mature person carries on like a creep as they should know better. ---
**Author:** ![SciFiSam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/47e85d/32.png) [@SciFiSam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SciFiSam)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2010, 12:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-ugly-americans-europeans-really-exist/543702/78 "2010-06-20T12:20:38Z")
> [@Girl\_From\_Mars](#): > > It’s not wrong to spell those words that way - in America you don’t spell those words with u in America, but the words with u are totally acceptable spellings of the word. Especially in an ‘English’ class, not an ‘American English’ class. > > Besides, I can accept this being corrected as a child is learning to spell at 5, but seriously, an 11 year old who had an A grade English O level already? She knew my background, knew I wasn’t in the US permanently, and basically told me when I asked about the corrections that since I was in the US I had to do it the US way. You had an A grade at O level when you were **11**? Seriously? That’s amazing. Did you graduate high school at 13? TBH, I would correct the US spellings of an American student if they were at a British secondary school. They’re not correct spellings in Britain. I wouldn’t make a big deal out of it, but I would mark it up. Anyway, if you were that bright then I’m sure you could adapt to the US spellings. ---
**Author:** ![Count\_Blucher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c5a1d2/32.png) [@Count\_Blucher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Count_Blucher)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2010, 12:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-ugly-americans-europeans-really-exist/543702/79 "2010-06-20T12:39:54Z")
> [@alphaboi867](#): > > I’d bet my life that she does the exact same thing back in the States with other Americans. You’d be right, but what I was trying to say was that there were at least 2 Americans in that restaurant that day. No one is going to remember me (and maybe thats a good thing) but I’ll bet stories of the other one who was a Total Asshat wil be handed down for generations. “The good men do is oft interred with their bones.” “Huh. Catchy. Somebody ought to write that down…” ---
**Author:** ![Drew\_Kit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/7cd45c/32.png) [@Drew\_Kit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Drew_Kit)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2010, 1:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-ugly-americans-europeans-really-exist/543702/80 "2010-06-20T13:33:47Z")
> [@rostfrei](#): > > The man was offended for some reason and literally threw a packet of ketchup at me. Obviously, I committed some faux pas, but I’m still not sure what it was. They have lot’s of types of mayonaisse and like people to try it at least once. You weren’t giving yourself a chance to acquire the taste in his eyes. I’m also guessing you didn’t say sorry, alstublieft, or dank u well. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-ugly-americans-europeans-really-exist/543702.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-ugly-americans-europeans-really-exist/543702.md?page=5)