# Do ugly Americans/Europeans really exist? **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [June 18, 2010, 7:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-ugly-americans-europeans-really-exist/543702 "2010-06-18T19:41:10Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 16\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2010, 10:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-ugly-americans-europeans-really-exist/543702/121 "2010-06-22T10:44:56Z")
> [@Little\_Plastic\_Ninja](#): > > I know – and I really WANT to go, especially after looking at the pictures of my Polish coworker’s aunt’s home in the mountains. My heritage is German and Polish and I want to see where my great-grandparents came from, and I keep hearing about how lovely and welcoming and brilliant the people in Poland are, I just don’t want to be the twerpy American who can’t understand a word they say. ☹ It should take about five minutes to learn the Polish for “please”, “hello” and “thank you”. Then you’re good to go! Or go on, actually. Heck, my modern Greek is limited to half a dozen words and I learned all of them in Greece (we never learned how to say “thank you”, actually). ---
**Author:** ![Harmonious\_Discord](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/74df32/32.png) [@Harmonious\_Discord](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Harmonious_Discord)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2010, 12:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-ugly-americans-europeans-really-exist/543702/122 "2010-06-22T12:17:18Z")
> [@JSexton](#): > > One of my co-workers just got back from a trip to Germany. While she enjoyed the beerhouses very much, she was annoyed that not one of the bands there would play the Chicken Dance for her. They didn’t even seem to know it, which seemed less than authentic to her. It’s the Duck Dance in Germany. ---
**Author:** ![Mississippienne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d2c977/32.png) [@Mississippienne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mississippienne)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2010, 12:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-ugly-americans-europeans-really-exist/543702/123 "2010-06-22T12:31:21Z")
There are not enough rollyeyes in the world to express my feelings whenever someone trots out that tired old ‘Europeans are sophisticated intellectuals, Americans are uncultured louts’ trope. I’ve lived abroad, met many foreign immigrants and visitors here, and honestly, neither seems any more cultured or sophisticated than the other. Americans are often acutely aware of our reputation, and I’ve encountered the ‘Let’s pretend we’re Canadian’ thing before. As for Europeans behaving badly in the USA, I’ve told this story before but its always a good one. Me and some friends were vacationing in Wilmington, NC a few years ago. We were walking on the beach that evening when suddenly we were surrounded by a posse of very drunk Dutch marines. They started talking to us, and suddenly one of them, Dion, proclaims, “You come to Holland, I will fuck you all!” I don’t think drunkenly sexually harassing local women exactly counts as ‘sharing your cultural heritage with the natives’. ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Scud](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/f08c70/32.png) [@Tom\_Scud](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Scud)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2010, 1:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-ugly-americans-europeans-really-exist/543702/124 "2010-06-22T13:56:57Z")
> [@Nava](#): > > It should take about five minutes to learn the Polish for “please”, “hello” and “thank you”. Then you’re good to go! Or go on, actually. Heck, my modern Greek is limited to half a dozen words and I learned all of them in Greece (we never learned how to say “thank you”, actually). Efkharisto poli (poli is “very much”) And that would be 2 of my about 8 words of modern Greek. ---
**Author:** ![Lust4Life](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ecc23a/32.png) [@Lust4Life](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lust4Life)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2010, 2:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-ugly-americans-europeans-really-exist/543702/125 "2010-06-22T14:47:01Z")
> [@even\_sven](#): > > OMG I can. Let’s start with British college students. How the hell do they drink so much?! My university had several British exchange students, and it seemed like every weekend I’d see them on the bus up to campus stumbling around, yelling, and flashing their trashy thong underwear to all and sundry. I went to a pretty quiet hippy school, and that kind of behavior really did stand out. They were by far the sluttiest, trashiest, loudest and most obnoxious people in town. > > Working at a hotel, I got a lot of British tourists that would confront me with “Why did you invade Iraq.” I’d explain that I never actually invaded Iraq, and I never voted for the guy who did. If they had looked around, they’d have noticed they were in the most liberal hippy peace-loving town possible. But no, I’d constantly get shit as if I personally wrote US foreign policy. Amazing ! Brits asked you why America invaded Iraq . Had they been in an underground bunker somewhere for an extended period ? Because being Brits they would know that as American allies we invaded Iraq alongside the Americans And as for the invasion of Afghan we were in country several weeks before the Americans due to having a task force on excercise in the gulf at the time. Did they ask you about that as well ? As to your previous post about Europeans sitting around complaining about Americans and Americans being the preferred backpackers of choice in the countries that they visit… Speaking as an experienced B.P.er whos travelled most parts of the world, I’ve never actually encountered an American B.P.er though I’m in no doubt that they exist, so I can’t say how the countries I visited viewed them. Nor have I ever heard Europeans, S.Americans or people from Downunder sit around criticising Americans…ever ! Or for that matter even talking about them. I think that there are ugly Americans, Brits, Europeans, Mongolians whatever. But personally I don’t lump whole nationalities together in sweeping generalisations whatever my alleged experiences with them have supposedly been. ---
**Author:** ![Capt.Ridley\_s\_Shooting\_Party](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/cc9497/32.png) [@Capt.Ridley\_s\_Shooting\_Party](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Capt.Ridley_s_Shooting_Party)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2010, 4:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-ugly-americans-europeans-really-exist/543702/126 "2010-06-22T16:09:07Z")
> [@Hypnagogic\_Jerk](#): > > Well, people write research papers to transmit knowledge among their research community. You haven’t said it explicitely, but I would assume that these papers are in a specific area or theory of computer science, and that all or almost all researchers who work on it are in France. So French became the common publication language of their research community, which may presumably limit its growth by limiting its exposure, but probably works fine for their purposes. Would you read their papers, or be interested in them, if they were written in English? Actually, no, the papers are of general interest. Most of the early papers and PhD theses on the Calculus of Constructions and its extensions are almost entirely in French. And, yes, I’d read them if they weren’t in French. People _do_ write papers to transmit knowledge. This is why the concept of a _lingua franca_ is so important. Right now, that universal language of science is English. Everybody else understands this apart from the French. ---
**Author:** ![Paul\_in\_Qatar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ccd318/32.png) [@Paul\_in\_Qatar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Paul_in_Qatar)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2010, 4:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-ugly-americans-europeans-really-exist/543702/127 "2010-06-22T16:12:58Z")
> [@rostfrei](#): > > JI’m reminded of a recent trip to Paris. I was standing in a short line at a tobacco shop to buy some postage stamps. While in line, I was practicing my phrase under my breath, and when my turn came, I meekly asked for postcard stamps to the USA in my best phrasebook French (which is not that good, trust me). I assumed the lady at the counter spoke English since I was in a touristy area, but I thought I’d be polite and at least attempt it in French. After I mangled my request, the lady behind the counter gasped and said in English, “In THIS country, we say bon jour first”. I was a bit shocked, but apologized and said bon jour. I got my stamps and walked back to my hotel, tail between my legs. She was extremely condescending and in my opinion, an ugly French person. Nobody who has a carrot over the shop door is happy to sell stamps. Never. I had one lady ask me why I needed so many. I explained it was part of my plan to overthrow the Fifth Republic. ---
**Author:** ![Hypnagogic\_Jerk](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hypnagogic_jerk/32/4252_2.png) [@Hypnagogic\_Jerk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hypnagogic_Jerk)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2010, 8:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-ugly-americans-europeans-really-exist/543702/128 "2010-06-22T20:53:14Z")
> [@Tom\_Scud](#): > > Efkharisto poli Is “efkharisto” related to “eucharist”? > [@Capt.Ridley\_s\_Shooting\_Party](#): > > Actually, no, the papers are of general interest. Most of the early papers and PhD theses on the Calculus of Constructions and its extensions are almost entirely in French. And, yes, I’d read them if they weren’t in French. You say “early” papers. How old are they exactly? You can find many mathematics and I suppose computer science research papers from the first half of the 20th century, perhaps even later, written in other languages than English, notably French, German and Russian. I think at some point, and it may even be still the case in some universities, you had to demonstrate proficiency in at least three languages to get a Ph.D. > [@](#): > > People _do_ write papers to transmit knowledge. This is why the concept of a _lingua franca_ is so important. Right now, that universal language of science is English. I agree, but as a research scientist you’re aware that people do research and even communicate it in other languages. English is the common language of _publication_, so research articles and talks are overwhelmingly in English, but in research laboratories and at conferences, you’ll hear many other languages being used by researchers. ---
**Author:** ![even\_sven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/dfb087/32.png) [@even\_sven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/even_sven)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2010, 2:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-ugly-americans-europeans-really-exist/543702/129 "2010-06-23T02:32:38Z")
> [@Lust4Life](#): > > Speaking as an experienced B.P.er whos travelled most parts of the world, I’ve never actually encountered an American B.P.er though I’m in no doubt that they exist, so I can’t say how the countries I visited viewed them. > > Nor have I ever heard Europeans, S.Americans or people from Downunder sit around criticising Americans…ever ! Well, it happens. I’m not sure how you missed us Americans, as I manage to run into lots of American backpackers. But yeah, I don’t appreciate eating my Muesli and coffee at the local hostel to a chorus people people going off about how stupid Americans are, how our foreign policy is ruining the world, how bad our food is, etc. I had one really uncomfortable car ride in Guatemala with a bunch of Brazilians who spent the entire time making snide remarks to me and my mother about her being American. They felt compelled to talk about how horrific our food is, how fat Americans are, how aggressive we are, how bad our TV shows are, etc. Now, we all know that American culture does have it’s low points. But I’m growing a bit bored with the “it’s always fun and safe to put down America” thing, especially when I’m in the same room. I don’t think we really deserve it, and in any case it’s rude. ---
**Author:** ![Siam\_Sam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d78d45/32.png) [@Siam\_Sam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siam_Sam)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2010, 4:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-ugly-americans-europeans-really-exist/543702/130 "2010-06-23T04:06:26Z")
Indeed. Lots of American backpackers on Khao San Road in Bangkok. Probably not the majority, but I’ve run into quite a few whenever venturing over that way. Used to be one myself, and I certainly ran into others in the hostels way back when. ---
**Author:** ![PsyXe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/54ee81/32.png) [@PsyXe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PsyXe)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2010, 12:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-ugly-americans-europeans-really-exist/543702/131 "2010-06-23T12:22:35Z")
> [@Hypnagogic\_Jerk](#): > > Is “efkharisto” related to “eucharist”? Yes. The Bible verse quoted during the ceremony includes “and he took bread, **gave thanks** , broke it, and gave it to them saying…” It’s the “gave thanks” bit that leads to the whole ceremony being called “eucharist”. ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2010, 1:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-ugly-americans-europeans-really-exist/543702/132 "2010-06-23T13:02:24Z")
And I’m now wondering whether, in all those years of Catholic schools and catechesis, did they really explain Ecclesia ten thousand times and Efkharist not once, or whether every time they explained Efkharist I happened to be asleep. Efkharisto poli, **Tom Scud** and **PsyXe**! ---
**Author:** ![Lust4Life](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ecc23a/32.png) [@Lust4Life](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lust4Life)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2010, 10:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-ugly-americans-europeans-really-exist/543702/133 "2010-06-24T10:03:26Z")
> [@Siam\_Sam](#): > > Indeed. Lots of American backpackers on Khao San Road in Bangkok. Probably not the majority, but I’ve run into quite a few whenever venturing over that way. > > Used to be one myself, and I certainly ran into others in the hostels way back when. AHA! So it proves my theory, I too have frequented the Khao San road and I know it sounds weird but never once amongst all the mixed nationalities ever noticed any Americans. Which goes to show that Americans can’t be loud because thats why I never noticed them. As to a previous post about only Americans being monolingual, I’m pretty sure that the Brits dead heat you on that one. Notorius ain’t in it. ---
**Author:** ![Gukumatz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/74df32/32.png) [@Gukumatz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gukumatz)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2010, 12:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-ugly-americans-europeans-really-exist/543702/134 "2010-06-24T12:59:49Z")
> [@Lust4Life](#): > > As to a previous post about only Americans being monolingual, I’m pretty sure that the Brits dead heat you on that one. > > Notorius ain’t in it. I’d agree with this - I expect most US tourists to know a smattering of spanish, at least if they’re southerners. But British? Mostly the only British who I can reliably expect to know another language are young women (teens to twenties) who know some french. (And Norwegians are embarassingly bad tourists. Pasty-pale, fat louts who shuttle between the beaches - where we blind everyone else with reflected sunlight - and the bars, where we drink far too much because it’s “cheap”.) ---
**Author:** ![constanze](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f9ae1b/32.png) [@constanze](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/constanze)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2010, 6:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-ugly-americans-europeans-really-exist/543702/135 "2010-06-25T18:31:46Z")
> [@BrotherCadfael](#): > > Well, no, unless they were chanting “Deutschland Uber Alles!” > > On second thought, if Germany won the World Cup, then perhaps that would be appropriate… No. It’s never appropriate to sing the first verse of Fallersleben’s text. Only neonazis do this. People might sing the third verse, which is the national anthem, if their national team wins. Or simply cheer. ---
**Author:** ![constanze](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f9ae1b/32.png) [@constanze](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/constanze)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2010, 6:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-ugly-americans-europeans-really-exist/543702/136 "2010-06-25T18:44:56Z")
> [@Drew\_Kit](#): > > Europeans won’t mind if you support your soccer team loudly, except perhaps when their team is playing yours. Tou won’t be as loud as they are used to. In the Euro 1996 championship in England I was a Scotland vs England game where the jingoism was threatening, but that can happen even between club teams. I’d have no problem with Germans singing Deutschland Uber Alles, especially since it is played before the game as their national anthem NO! It’s NOT our national anthem! The offical national anthem of democratic Germany is the third verse\* of Fallersleben’s text, with the melody by Haydn. The first verse - Deutschland über alles (Germany above everything) - is only sung by neonazis. If you meet Germans singing Deutschland über alles instead of Einigkeit und Recht und Freiheit, then they are neonazi jerks, and you have my permission to call them that and give them a slap. \*Originally, back when Fallersleben wrote that poem in 1841, the first verse had a completly different meaning. Germany above everything was a call to put the German country - which didn’t exist at that time, the Kaiserreich started 1871, after all - above the petty interestes of the local states. The geographic borders he names - Maas, Memel, Etsch, Belt - were at that time the borders of the german language area and quite legitametly german. However, during the 3rd Reich, when large parts of this area had been lost in the treaty of Versailles after WWI, the Nazis used only the 1st verse (combined with the hateful Horst-Wessel-Song after) and meant it in the nationalistic idea: Germany to rule above others, and “the country is everything, the individual nothing” idea, along with “these areas are ours, and we will take them back” imperialism with the geographic naming. For that reason, after WWII, when it was finally decided to keep the old melody, it was decreed that only the third verse will be sung officially, because that text is harmless: _Einigkeit und Recht und Freiheit für das deutsche Vaterland! Danach lasst uns alle streben brüderlich mit Herz und Hand! Einigkeit und Recht und Freiheit sind des Glückes Unterpfand: |: Blüh im Glanze dieses Glückes, blühe, deutsches Vaterland! 😑_ Unity and Justice and Freedom for the German fatherland! Let us strive towards this all together, brotherly, with heart and hand! Unity and Justice and Freedom are the foundations of happiness Bloom in the shine of this happiness, bloom, German fatherland! A more detailed history is at [wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deutschlandlied) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-ugly-americans-europeans-really-exist/543702.md?page=6)