# Do US sports fans ever regret the absence of international competition? **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [November 21, 2009, 5:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-us-sports-fans-ever-regret-the-absence-of-international-competition/518419 "2009-11-21T17:27:19Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![amanset](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/8dc957/32.png) [@amanset](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/amanset)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2009, 8:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-us-sports-fans-ever-regret-the-absence-of-international-competition/518419/121 "2009-11-24T08:41:35Z")
Well I thought I had a good point about the popularity of the national team being due to high population density and the chance of everyone getting behind the same side for once, something that’s not such an issue in the US when teams can be the length of England away from their closest team neighbour. SO SCREW YOU GUYS 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Dead\_Badger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/848f3c/32.png) [@Dead\_Badger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dead_Badger)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2009, 12:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-us-sports-fans-ever-regret-the-absence-of-international-competition/518419/122 "2009-11-24T12:02:41Z")
> [@MichaelQReilly](#): > > I agree that it would be nice if the American sports had more developed international competitions, but it isn’t likely to happen, imho. Yeah. Either football will have to displace one of the States’ incumbent sports, which isn’t going to happen, or the rest of the world will have to catch up massively at one of them. Which, again, is not likely. I’m absolutely sure, though, that if the rest of the world really did get good at American football overnight, the USA would bust a nut to beat them at it. **elmwood** , you seem to be reading an entirely different thread to me. The only person making anything like the comparisons you describe is **Shagnasty** , _an American_, who with not a hint of irony was deriding European sports as “femme”. So who on earth are you arguing with? This isn’t “a bit defensive,” you’re outright seeing things that aren’t there. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2009, 2:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-us-sports-fans-ever-regret-the-absence-of-international-competition/518419/123 "2009-11-24T14:49:48Z")
The rest of the world got really good at basketball overnight and the American response was a collective, “meh”. ---
**Author:** ![FrWindyShephardHenderson](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/a9a28c/32.png) [@FrWindyShephardHenderson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FrWindyShephardHenderson)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2009, 3:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-us-sports-fans-ever-regret-the-absence-of-international-competition/518419/124 "2009-11-24T15:48:53Z")
> [@don\_t\_ask](#): > > It would have been a travesty if Australia won. > > What caused the short arm penalty on Scotland’s scrum feed over halfway with 2 minutes left? > > And then we knocked on twice in the next ruck. > > I ended up cheering for Giteau to miss. > > Have a single malt for me. > > Cheers. Can I still gloat if we only drew with ye? And a close run draw at that. ---
**Author:** ![Labrador\_Deceiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7c8e57/32.png) [@Labrador\_Deceiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Labrador_Deceiver)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2009, 4:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-us-sports-fans-ever-regret-the-absence-of-international-competition/518419/125 "2009-11-24T16:34:25Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Nobody who has ever watched a football game could assert that football isn’t violent. I’m fairly certain he meant to type basketball. ---
**Author:** ![Dead\_Badger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/848f3c/32.png) [@Dead\_Badger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dead_Badger)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2009, 5:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-us-sports-fans-ever-regret-the-absence-of-international-competition/518419/126 "2009-11-24T17:03:55Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > The rest of the world got really good at basketball overnight and the American response was a collective, “meh”. Well, some bits of the world got good enough at basketball to pick up the pieces when the American team implodes, which is often, but it’s still pretty much the case that if the USA turns up with a coherent team of its best players, it will beat anyone, and do so handsomely. When the main drama is actually getting players to commit to the team, and the main motivation is the memory of losing games you should’ve won, you can see why the audience would be apathetic. ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Scud](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/f08c70/32.png) [@Tom\_Scud](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Scud)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2009, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-us-sports-fans-ever-regret-the-absence-of-international-competition/518419/127 "2009-11-24T17:12:41Z")
> [@Dead\_Badger](#): > > Well, some bits of the world got good enough at basketball to pick up the pieces when the American team implodes, which is often, but it’s still pretty much the case that if the USA turns up with a coherent team of its best players, it will beat anyone, and do so handsomely. When the main drama is actually getting players to commit to the team, and the main motivation is the memory of losing games you should’ve won, you can see why the audience would be apathetic. Yeah. It’s possible that China will some day put together a team that the US can’t beat (or at least can’t usually beat) no matter how hard we try; that’s probably the best bet for an international competition that US fans are actually go crazy over. Though we seem as a nation to have given up on men’s tennis now that Americans aren’t 2 of the top 5 or so. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2009, 5:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-us-sports-fans-ever-regret-the-absence-of-international-competition/518419/128 "2009-11-24T17:20:44Z")
> [@Dead\_Badger](#): > > Well, some bits of the world got good enough at basketball to pick up the pieces when the American team implodes, which is often, but it’s still pretty much the case that if the USA turns up with a coherent team of its best players, it will beat anyone, and do so handsomely. When the main drama is actually getting players to commit to the team, and the main motivation is the memory of losing games you should’ve won, you can see why the audience would be apathetic. That’s true. As I said earlier, I think Americans generally disdain international competition because they (justifiably) assume they’d win anyway. ---
**Author:** ![Dead\_Badger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/848f3c/32.png) [@Dead\_Badger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dead_Badger)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2009, 5:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-us-sports-fans-ever-regret-the-absence-of-international-competition/518419/129 "2009-11-24T17:27:30Z")
> [@Tom Scud](#): > > Though we seem as a nation to have given up on men’s tennis now that Americans aren’t 2 of the top 5 or so. That’s the thing with peripheral sports like tennis, I guess; as a country you’re good enough at everything that there’s always some sport in which you’re currently dominating the international scene. So fallow patches in sports that aren’t part of what you might call America’s sporting identity can be easily glossed over by switching attention to something else. Failure in basketball, though, yikes. Inquisition time. The converse happens in the UK, exhibited in our amazing ability to get interested in the shittest sports imaginable, if by some fluke the UK happens to be briefly doing well. Curling is a great example. ---
**Author:** ![MOIDALIZE](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e274bd/32.png) [@MOIDALIZE](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MOIDALIZE)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2009, 5:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-us-sports-fans-ever-regret-the-absence-of-international-competition/518419/130 "2009-11-24T17:28:20Z")
Didn’t the Pirates sign a couple of Indian or Pakistani players to minor league deals? Maybe that’s the next big baseball market. ---
**Author:** ![KellyCriterion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/b3f665/32.png) [@KellyCriterion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KellyCriterion)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2009, 5:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-us-sports-fans-ever-regret-the-absence-of-international-competition/518419/131 "2009-11-24T17:34:04Z")
I think a lot of our American friends don’t realise the extra dimension that cheering on a national team can bring. Perhaps a better way to phrase the OP would have been to say “Do American sports fans miss the fact that their major sports don’t have an ultra-competitive international competition?”. Pointing out that you’d rather watch your state’s sporting franchise play against some other state, as opposed to watching the US NFL team clobber The Phillipines 136 - 0, is hardly saying anything contentious. And I think the reality is, American sports fans don’t realise what they are missing. The closest they may have got to it was the presence of the Dream Team at the 1992 Barcelona Olympics, which certainly wasn’t met with mooted yawns by the American sporting public. Being an Australian sports fan who gets to cheer on national cricket, rugby and soccer teams - but not a national AFL team - I get to view this from both perspectives. And yes, I believe that a competitive international competition most certainly adds another fun dimension to a game. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2009, 5:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-us-sports-fans-ever-regret-the-absence-of-international-competition/518419/132 "2009-11-24T17:38:00Z")
> [@MOIDALIZE](#): > > Didn’t the Pirates sign a couple of Indian or Pakistani players to minor league deals? Maybe that’s the next big baseball market. Yup - and they got tryouts on the strength of their performance in a [game show](http://nbcsports.msnbc.com/id/27896829/), if you can believe it. It’s like _Slumdog Millionaire_ only without the communal violence and gangsters. ---
**Author:** ![EllisDee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ellisdee/32/4531_2.png) [@EllisDee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EllisDee)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2009, 9:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-us-sports-fans-ever-regret-the-absence-of-international-competition/518419/133 "2009-11-24T21:48:01Z")
> [@Ximenean](#): > > Obviously, the USA is a continent-sized country, so it gets some of the benefit of what we in Europe and elsewhere consider “international” competition without having to actually engage other countries in competition. But I do I think that perhaps people don’t realise how the international level competitions that we non-Americans are talking about are on a completely different plane to club-level competition. In US sports, there is nothing above the Superbowl and the World Series. That’s the highest level a player can aspire to. In rugby, cricket, soccer, there are rough equivalents of those competitions, and then there’s a whole other level above that. Top players, no matter how many club trophies they’ve won and how much money they make, still strive to play in their national teams, because it is the very pinnacle of their sport. You can’t compare something to the pinnacle and then claim a level above that. By definition, you’re not comparable to the pinnacle if there is a level above. A better comparison would be college football with club play and the NFL with international competition. People go nuts for college football, but the players aspire to the higher level of the NFL. Being great in the NFL generates far more respect than being great in college. (Though to be fair, if you win a Heisman, that’s likely going to be mentioned in the first sentence of your obituary no matter what you did in the pros, or the rest of your life, for that matter. Hell, it’s practically as bad as “Heisman winner OJ Simpson is also known for having some legal troubles.”) > [@Ximenean](#): > > But wouldn’t you feel attached to a Virginia “national” team? Consisting of the best players from Virginia, regardless of who they played for in their day jobs? I can’t help thinking that US sports fans would get quite excited about match-ups between state-level “dream teams” like this, and that is equivalent to what does actually exist in other sports. Somehow we fit it in around all the club-level international and domestic competitions. We call those state level dream teams “college sports.” And they are dominated by exactly those regions others have already identified. (Texas, Florida and California for football.) ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2009, 9:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-us-sports-fans-ever-regret-the-absence-of-international-competition/518419/134 "2009-11-24T21:50:40Z")
> [@EllisDee](#): > > We call those state level dream teams “college sports.” And they are dominated by exactly those regions others have already identified. (Texas, Florida and California for football.) No we don’t. Top flight college teams may primarily recruit in-state players, but every top-25 program is going to have at least a dozen out-of-state players and probably a lot more. ---
**Author:** ![StusBlues](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/dc4da7/32.png) [@StusBlues](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/StusBlues)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2009, 10:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-us-sports-fans-ever-regret-the-absence-of-international-competition/518419/135 "2009-11-24T22:29:43Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > The rest of the world got really good at basketball overnight and the American response was a collective, “meh”. I think this gets to the root of the OP’s problem. It’s not that USAns _miss_ international competition – there’s plenty of it – as that they just don’t care nearly as much as folks from elsewhere. The World Baseball Congress raised some attention, but wasn’t really a crowd symbol, and certainly didn’t give the World Series a run for its money. The Ryder Cup strikes a sentimental chord among golf fans, but it’s not going to rival the Masters any time soon. The FIBA championships are essentially training for the Olympic basketball teams–no real heat there. The Olympics ARE a big deal…like they are everywhere else. Honestly, money has come to rule sports in the US, and the cash is made in league play, not in more honor-based outlets like international competition. ---
**Author:** ![EllisDee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ellisdee/32/4531_2.png) [@EllisDee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EllisDee)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2009, 12:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-us-sports-fans-ever-regret-the-absence-of-international-competition/518419/136 "2009-11-25T00:41:54Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > No we don’t. Top flight college teams may primarily recruit in-state players, but every top-25 program is going to have at least a dozen out-of-state players and probably a lot more. Why are you being deliberately obtuse in this thread? ---
**Author:** ![kidchameleon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/898d66/32.png) [@kidchameleon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kidchameleon)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2009, 3:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-us-sports-fans-ever-regret-the-absence-of-international-competition/518419/137 "2009-11-25T03:02:06Z")
> [@Dead\_Badger](#): > > I’d say it’s international because the empire spanned the globe for long enough to nurture talent in all those countries; the collapse is irrelevant, as these places would play cricket even if the empire still existed. But so what? Doesn’t get us any closer to discovering whether international competition is interesting in itself, does it? > > So many people are reading this thread as asking, “we’ve got international tournaments. Are we better because of that?” It really isn’t. I think this is a flaw in the OP, though. The question shouldn’t be ‘Why doesn’t the US have international competition?’ but rather ‘Why doesn’t the world have international competition like the Commonwealth?’ Soccer is an international sports phenomenon like no other. It isn’t comparable to baseball, cricket, basketball or rugby. The only two sports left are sports only played throughout the Commonwealth. Why doesn’t Italy have a big cricket team? Where is the huge Chinese rugby following? ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2009, 3:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-us-sports-fans-ever-regret-the-absence-of-international-competition/518419/138 "2009-11-25T03:15:43Z")
> [@EllisDee](#): > > Why are you being deliberately obtuse in this thread? In what way am I being deliberately obtuse? National teams can pick from their own citizens except in very rare cases. College teams do not. ---
**Author:** ![Dead\_Badger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/848f3c/32.png) [@Dead\_Badger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dead_Badger)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2009, 8:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-us-sports-fans-ever-regret-the-absence-of-international-competition/518419/139 "2009-11-25T08:24:27Z")
> [@kidchameleon](#): > > I think this is a flaw in the OP, though. The question shouldn’t be ‘Why doesn’t the US have international competition?’ But the OP didn’t ask that at all. It simply asked whether Americans regret the lack of international competition in their favourite sports. It’s a perfectly reasonable question. ---
**Author:** ![amanset](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/8dc957/32.png) [@amanset](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/amanset)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2009, 8:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-us-sports-fans-ever-regret-the-absence-of-international-competition/518419/140 "2009-11-25T08:36:17Z")
> [@kidchameleon](#): > > Why doesn’t Italy have a big cricket team? Maybe they don’t play cricket, but they certainly play rugby. The old Five Nations tournament (England, Scotland, Wales, Ireland and France) was expanded to Six Nations about a decade ago to include Italy. They started off as whipping boys but these days the results are nothing like the ones when they first joined. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-us-sports-fans-ever-regret-the-absence-of-international-competition/518419.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-us-sports-fans-ever-regret-the-absence-of-international-competition/518419.md?page=8)