# Do vegetarians eat more bugs and rats than the rest of us? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [February 22, 2007, 2:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-vegetarians-eat-more-bugs-and-rats-than-the-rest-of-us/393181 "2007-02-22T02:23:37Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 14\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![TristanVT](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a6a055/32.png) [@TristanVT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TristanVT)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2007, 2:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-vegetarians-eat-more-bugs-and-rats-than-the-rest-of-us/393181/1 "2007-02-22T02:23:37Z")
The government (bless their little hearts) allows a certain amount of ground up bug and rat in our grain. Organic farms use no pesticides and probably make out with the rats so does that mean there is more ground pests in your hippy trail mix? Also, do vegans swallow? Do Catholics swallow on Fridays? ---
**Author:** ![Beaucarnea](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/c0e974/32.png) [@Beaucarnea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beaucarnea)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2007, 2:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-vegetarians-eat-more-bugs-and-rats-than-the-rest-of-us/393181/2 "2007-02-22T02:41:53Z")
Well, hi, **TristanVT**! I can’t speak for all organic foodies, but I can tell you that yes, I probably eat more bugs than the average omnivore. I grow alot of my own organic vegetables, and have been known to pick tomatoes, corn, and beans straight from the vine and eat them without washing. As far as processed food, I don’t eat very much of it, but the FDA allows my [cereal and my peanut butter to contain 30 to 60 insect fragments per 100 grams](http://www.sixwise.com/newsletters/05/06/29/how_many_insect_parts_and_rodent_hairs_are_allowed_in_your_food.htm). Oh, and before I switched brands, my favorite red lipstick contained dye made from [cochineal insects](http://www.food-info.net/uk/colour/cochineal.htm). So not only do I knowingly eat bugs and bug parts- I happily smear crushed bug onto my lips. But I don’t buy or eat beef, chicken, pork, or fish. Doesn’t gross me out at all, and I’ve always thought it amusing when a person with a normal diet freaks out after swallowing a gnat. Meat is meat, right? [Now stop making fun of people and pass the weevils.](http://www.fda.gov/ora/inspect_ref/iom/appendices/appendix1.html) ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2007, 2:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-vegetarians-eat-more-bugs-and-rats-than-the-rest-of-us/393181/3 "2007-02-22T02:48:29Z")
> [@](#): > > Do Catholics swallow on Fridays? I know of no reason why not, if they swallow at other times. Semen isn’t meat, and Catholics are allowed to have eggs and dairy on Fridays. An individual Catholic might choose to give up fellatio for Lent, but that’s a personal decision and perfectly voluntary. ---
**Author:** ![KarlGauss](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/karlgauss/32/3713_2.png) [@KarlGauss](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KarlGauss)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2007, 8:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-vegetarians-eat-more-bugs-and-rats-than-the-rest-of-us/393181/4 "2007-02-22T20:07:34Z")
I was tought that a major reason why even strict vegans don’t often develop vitamin B12 deficiency\*, is that there is more than enough rodent dropping contamination in many non-meat products to provide adequate amounts of B12. \*B12 is not found in significant amounts in the diet of strict vegans ---
**Author:** ![Throatwarbler\_Mangrove](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/8c91f0/32.png) [@Throatwarbler\_Mangrove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Throatwarbler_Mangrove)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2007, 8:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-vegetarians-eat-more-bugs-and-rats-than-the-rest-of-us/393181/5 "2007-02-22T20:11:42Z")
What about that whole Sex for the purpose fo procreation thing? ---
**Author:** ![Valgard](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/7feea3/32.png) [@Valgard](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Valgard)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2007, 8:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-vegetarians-eat-more-bugs-and-rats-than-the-rest-of-us/393181/6 "2007-02-22T20:21:24Z")
[QUOTE=KarlGauss] I was tought that a major reason why even strict vegans don’t often develop vitamin B12 deficiency\*, is that there is more than enough rodent dropping contamination in many non-meat products to provide adequate amounts of B12. \*B12 is not found in significant amounts in the diet of strict vegans [/QUOTE] There are a number of non-animal sources of B12. B12 itself is produced only by bacteria, according to this link: > **[\-- The Vegetarian Resource Group](https://www.vrg.org/nutrition/b12.php)** > > Vegetarian nutrition information, recipes, books, and publishers of Vegetarian Journal. The Vegetarian Resource Group (VRG) is a non-profit organization dedicated to educating the public on vegetarianism and the interrelated issues of health,... I’m not a vegan, however I don’t eat a lot of meat. I do take a multivitamin each day, something I understand lots of vegetarians do. ---
**Author:** ![Anaamika](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Anaamika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anaamika)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2007, 8:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-vegetarians-eat-more-bugs-and-rats-than-the-rest-of-us/393181/7 "2007-02-22T20:30:19Z")
Well, I guess they choose the lesser of two weevils. I’m sorry. ---
**Author:** ![si\_blakely](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d9b06d/32.png) [@si\_blakely](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/si_blakely)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2007, 9:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-vegetarians-eat-more-bugs-and-rats-than-the-rest-of-us/393181/8 "2007-02-22T21:48:13Z")
[QUOTE=Throatwarbler Mangrove] What about that whole Sex for the purpose fo procreation thing? [/QUOTE] Ever heard of Spit Babies. :eek: Si ---
**Author:** ![Lightray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lightray/32/391_2.png) [@Lightray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lightray)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2007, 10:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-vegetarians-eat-more-bugs-and-rats-than-the-rest-of-us/393181/9 "2007-02-22T22:01:01Z")
[QUOTE=Anaamika] I’m sorry. [/QUOTE] Oh, don’t be. That was magnificent. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2007, 10:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-vegetarians-eat-more-bugs-and-rats-than-the-rest-of-us/393181/10 "2007-02-22T22:51:22Z")
> [@](#): > > What about that whole Sex for the purpose fo procreation thing? The Church teaches that Catholics should have sex for procreation. It does not say that they can’t also have sex which is not procreative. ---
**Author:** ![Sailboat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sailboat/32/461_2.png) [@Sailboat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sailboat)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2007, 12:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-vegetarians-eat-more-bugs-and-rats-than-the-rest-of-us/393181/11 "2007-02-23T00:26:35Z")
There are two main reasons that drive most decisions to become vegan: health and ethics. There may well be other reasons, but those are far and away the predominant reasons I have heard cited. Health vegans are altering their diet for health reasons. As such, bugs would probably be something they don’t want, but sex would be so tiny a part of their diet that it wouldn’t make any difference to their overall health. Note that some folks who become vegan for health reasons may have health issues and conceivably might not be having sex at all. Ethical vegans (I’d lump religious folks like [Jains](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jainism) into this category for the purposes of this discussion) are trying to reduce or eliminate their impact on animals. As such, oral sex wouldn’t bother them, provided it was with a human. Eating bugs is another matter. Nonreligious ethical vegans don’t like eating bugs any more than the rest of us, but as their goal is to reduce harm \*as much as possible, \* will put up with what they have to. It’s not like they’re going to throw up their hands and begin slaughtering the lambs because there are bug parts in peanut butter. One does what one can. The risk of financially supporting food companies that exploit animals, even if one is buying a vegan item, is probably a bigger problem. To make up an illustration, some fully vegan-made organic peanut butter with .1% bugs might be doing less harm overall than hypothetically much cleaner peanut butter from Archer Daniels Midland, because that second purchase keeps cash flowing into the slaughterhouses. Religious ethical vegans (the Jains are an extreme example) are in some cases very bothered by the concept of harming even the least insect. They generally go to considerable lengths to reduce or eliminate the possibility. This can greatly interfere with their lifestyle. Sailboat ---
**Author:** ![Tim\_T-Bonham.net](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/46a35a/32.png) [@Tim\_T-Bonham.net](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tim_T-Bonham.net)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2007, 1:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-vegetarians-eat-more-bugs-and-rats-than-the-rest-of-us/393181/12 "2007-02-23T01:11:50Z")
[QUOTE=Chronos] The Church teaches that Catholics should have sex for procreation. It does not say that they can’t also have sex which is not procreative. [/QUOTE] Not true! Catholic doctrine is that every acceptable sex act _ **must** be open to the possibility of procreation_. So fellatio is not allowed. Nor anal sex. Nor sex with a same-gender partner. Nor sex with a pre-pubertal girl (not even an altar boy). Nor sex when wearing a condom, while a woman is on the pill, or other ‘artificial’ birth control. ‘Natural’ birth control (aka rhythm method) is OK, under the loophole that God could possibly cause a woman to conceive during the non-fertile part of her period. This is the official church doctrine, and is being re-emphasized under Pope Benedict. (But in fact, much of it is unenforceable, and most actual parish pastors have long since given up on this, and tell their parishioners that they must do what is right with their own conscience .) ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2007, 3:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-vegetarians-eat-more-bugs-and-rats-than-the-rest-of-us/393181/13 "2007-02-23T03:07:05Z")
> [@](#): > > Not true! > > Catholic doctrine is that every acceptable sex act must be open to the possibility of procreation. > > So fellatio is not allowed. Nor… [long list] Depends on your definition of “sex act”. If a couple engages in oral sex as foreplay, and then continues on to standard penile-vaginal intercourse, is that one act or two? According to every theology teacher I’ve had, that’s perfectly acceptable. Can you give me any cite to the contrary? ---
**Author:** ![Tim\_T-Bonham.net](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/46a35a/32.png) [@Tim\_T-Bonham.net](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tim_T-Bonham.net)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2007, 5:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-vegetarians-eat-more-bugs-and-rats-than-the-rest-of-us/393181/14 "2007-02-23T05:42:30Z")
[QUOTE=Chronos] Depends on your definition of “sex act”. If a couple engages in oral sex as foreplay, and then continues on to standard penile-vaginal intercourse, is that one act or two? According to every theology teacher I’ve had, that’s perfectly acceptable. Can you give me any cite to the contrary? [/QUOTE] If the oral sex continues to the point of consummation (ejaculation), it is clearly not “foreplay”, but a separate sex act. And the earlier discussion referred to “swallowing semen”, so we are not talking about “foreplay”.