# Do video games make you violent? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [December 10, 2011, 5:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-video-games-make-you-violent/605751 "2011-12-10T17:40:48Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![An\_Gadai](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d6d6ee/32.png) [@An\_Gadai](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/An_Gadai)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2011, 3:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-video-games-make-you-violent/605751/21 "2011-12-11T03:05:38Z")
Only really frustrating ones. ---
**Author:** ![chacoguy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/50afbb/32.png) [@chacoguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chacoguy)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2011, 3:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-video-games-make-you-violent/605751/22 "2011-12-11T03:18:44Z")
Related:[Access to Porn reduces Rape.](http://www.impactlab.net/2008/01/06/internet-porn-shown-to-decrease-incidence-of-rape/) ---
**Author:** ![RaftPeople](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/6f9a4e/32.png) [@RaftPeople](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RaftPeople)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2011, 4:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-video-games-make-you-violent/605751/23 "2011-12-11T04:03:29Z")
> [@thelurkinghorror](#): > > …I am thinking that Wang et al. didn’t report it as a “negative neurological effect.” It’s possible they did and all it means is negative as in suppression of activity, as opposed to a societal judgement type usage of “negative”. I would say the following: 1. Clearly there was some change that took about a week to get back to normal 2. It could have been just due to video game stimulation in general, or the violent nature - and you’re right, the study doesn’t actually make it possible to determine which. ---
**Author:** ![Sinisterniik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/51bf81/32.png) [@Sinisterniik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sinisterniik)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2011, 4:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-video-games-make-you-violent/605751/24 "2011-12-11T04:07:59Z")
The unexpectedly violent series “Grand Theft Auto” was released in 1997. Its much more popular (and realistic) sequel, “GTA 2” was released in 1999. The franchise had it’s highest popularity with “GTA III” and its spinoffs, released in 2001. It continues to thrive today, perhaps due to the switch from simple Arabic numerals to the much more stylish Roman numerals. Let’s see how this overwhelmingly popular title affected [car](http://www.auto-theft.info/Statistics.htm) [theft](http://www2.fbi.gov/ucr/cius2009/offenses/property_crime/motor_vehicle_theft.html) [rates](http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2009-10-18-vehicle-thefts_N.htm): > [@](#): > > The FBI estimates 956,846 motor vehicles were stolen in 2008 — 315 cars for every 100,000 people. That’s less than half the rate in 1991, when a high of 1.66 million vehicles were stolen — 659 for every 100,000 people. > > The estimated number of motor vehicle thefts [in 2009] declined 17.1 percent when compared with data from 2008, 35.7 percent when compared with 2005 figures, and 31.5 percent when compared with 2000 figures. > > Year …Vehicles stolen …Percent change > 1995 …1,472,441 …-4.3% > 1996 …1,394,238 …-5.3 > 1997… 1,354,189 …-2.9 > 1998 …1,242,781 …-8.2 > 1999… 1,152,075 …-7.3 > 2000 …1,160,002 …0.7 > 2001 …1,228,391 …5.9 > 2002 …1,246,646 …1.5 > 2003… 1,261,226 …1.2 > 2004 …1,237,114 …-1.9 Ok, so the overall trend seems to show that motor vehicle theft was down despite the franchise’s success. However, there was a notable increase in 2001, the same year as the GTA III release. But that’s explainable by the slight increase in crime that came with the 2001 recession. To what do the experts attribute the overall reduction in motor vehicle theft? > [@](#): > > “It’s a much tougher job to be a car thief today,” says Russ Rader, spokesman for Highway Loss Data Institute, a research group funded by auto insurers that analyzes data from insurance claims. “The technology in new vehicles makes it much harder to make off with a car.” Ok, so science makes it harder. But a fancy lock wouldn’t stop our hero from shooting out a window or simply expelling the driver from his still running car. Any thing else? How about from a man of the law? > [@](#): > > Arizona legislators in 1992 created the Arizona Automobile Theft Authority to tackle its alarming car-theft problem, says Brian Salata, the authority’s executive director. The task force works with police departments and prosecutors statewide to uncover and prosecute organized car theft operations, he says. > > “Our idea was to take out the large trafficking organizations,” he says. “It’s working.” Hmm… no mention of the decline in popularity of the GTA series, just basic police work. I’m not saying that this proves anything concrete, but the GTA series was the poster child for violent video games (along with Mortal Kombat and the gruesome Pacman), but with its wax crime has waned. ---
**Author:** ![Isamu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/7c8e57/32.png) [@Isamu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Isamu)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2011, 8:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-video-games-make-you-violent/605751/25 "2011-12-11T08:11:35Z")
Hundreds of hours of playing pacman has increased my tendency to eat ghosts. ---
**Author:** ![Bisected8](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a4c791/32.png) [@Bisected8](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bisected8)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2011, 12:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-video-games-make-you-violent/605751/26 "2011-12-11T12:46:25Z")
> [@Isamu](#): > > Hundreds of hours of playing pacman has increased my tendency to eat ghosts. To be fair, many people in the late 20th century did spend a lot of time popping pills and listening to repetitive music… ---
**Author:** ![biqu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7feea3/32.png) [@biqu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/biqu)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2011, 1:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-video-games-make-you-violent/605751/27 "2011-12-11T13:22:46Z")
> [@Sinisterniik](#): > > Ok, so the overall trend seems to show that motor vehicle theft was down despite the franchise’s success. However, there was a notable increase in 2001, the same year as the GTA III release. But that’s explainable by the slight increase in crime that came with the 2001 recession. > > To what do the experts attribute the overall reduction in motor vehicle theft? > > Ok, so science makes it harder. But a fancy lock wouldn’t stop our hero from shooting out a window or simply expelling the driver from his still running car. Any thing else? How about from a man of the law? Neither a man of the law nor an expert, I humbly suggest the nearly two-fold increase in the [real price of gas](http://www.eia.gov/forecasts/steo/realprices/) since 1991 as one factor making motor vehicle theft less lucrative, and hence less frequently conducted than in the heyday of GTA when gas was less than $2 per gallon. (I’ll concede that most carjackers don’t steal cars for their own use, but the price of gas does influence the demand for cars over the long run, which might drive would-be carjackers into other enterprises.) ---
**Author:** ![Ibanez](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/a4c791/32.png) [@Ibanez](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibanez)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2011, 1:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-video-games-make-you-violent/605751/28 "2011-12-11T13:38:32Z")
> [@Malden\_Capell](#): > > My fiance (who has an irrational dislike of video games), was disgusted and claimed that someone will now go and try to do the very same thing in real life. Ask your fiance to post the real life news link here when someone starts hurling dead bodies on to a drawbridge via catapult please. ---
**Author:** ![md2000](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/73ab20/32.png) [@md2000](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/md2000)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2011, 5:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-video-games-make-you-violent/605751/29 "2011-12-11T17:59:58Z")
I recall a news story once where Manitoba was the car theft capital of Canada. With lax juvenile laws and kids learning hotwiring in juvy homes from other kids, any car with a simple ignition lock could be stolen, apparently. Then the government car insurance company mandated “the Club” and later ignition suppressors unless your car had one of those fancy computer chip key theft prevention. In the last 10 years, apparently car theft has dropped to a fraction of what it once was. More cars also have those embedded chip theft suppression systems. the trouble is, we see “scientific paper” and think these guys know what they are talking about. First, we still know very little about the human brain. Is brain activity suppressed because of the violence, or because it’s a complex task and that part of the brain is resting afterward? Does that part cause violence? Second, a lot of social scientists especially know what gets controversy, recognition and grants. Proving “kids are resilient” does not get anywhere near the notice (especially on a certain network) as knocking modern culture. ---
**Author:** ![Gary\_Robson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gary_robson/32/3448_2.png) [@Gary\_Robson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gary_Robson)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2011, 6:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-video-games-make-you-violent/605751/30 "2011-12-11T18:56:05Z")
[moderating] Moved to Great Debates [/moderating] ---
**Author:** ![Knorf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/58956e/32.png) [@Knorf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Knorf)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2011, 7:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-video-games-make-you-violent/605751/31 "2011-12-11T19:08:15Z")
[Correlation is not causation](http://i.imgur.com/0UN0T.png). Always worth mentioning that in threads like these, and that graphic is fairly amusing. Short answer to the OP: no one’s sure, but it seems increasingly unlikely. ---
**Author:** ![Uber\_the\_Goober](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/58956e/32.png) [@Uber\_the\_Goober](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Uber_the_Goober)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2011, 8:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-video-games-make-you-violent/605751/32 "2011-12-11T20:04:37Z")
> [@Malden\_Capell](#): > > \ My fiance (who has an irrational dislike of video games), was disgusted and claimed that someone will now go and try to do the very same thing in real life. > > \ [/unsolicited opinion] Get out now, while it’s still FIANCE and not WIFE. That’s beyond irrational thought. I can only imagine the nonsense that type of thinking will lead to in other arenas of married life, child rearing, etc. [\unsolicited opinion] It’s people who make claims like this that destroy any credibility of the position that video games make people violent. They may desensitize people to violent acts in entertainment, but there’s absolutely no reason to think that this might motivate someone to go out and duplicate their virtual antics in real life. I mean really…my little brother used to take my sister’s barbies and make them “walk the plank” in the bathtub. He would simulate wars between various action figures, and often it involved “bodies” flying. That didn’t make him want to do that to real people in the future…he was a bit strange but certainly not violent. There’s no way to say that there’s a definite causal link. Correlation is tenuous at best. ---
**Author:** ![Farmer\_Jane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Farmer\_Jane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Farmer_Jane)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2011, 6:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-video-games-make-you-violent/605751/33 "2011-12-12T06:42:48Z")
Violence de-sensitizes us to violence. ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2011, 12:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-video-games-make-you-violent/605751/34 "2011-12-12T12:49:28Z")
> [@CitizenPained](#): > > Violence de-sensitizes us to violence. How so? How do you know this? It doesn’t seem particularly true, at least in any sense related to how people really function. For instance, I’ve watched thosuands of hours of fictional movie violence and logged many hours of shooting others in video games, yet I still find video images of real violence, of the rare occasions that I witness real violence to be quite disturbing. If fictional violence truly desensitizes us, I wonder why people still have such dramatic reactions when they experience it in reality. How about you? Have you ever experienced fictional violence? Are you now callous and desensitized to real violence? ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Captor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f17d59/32.png) [@Evil\_Captor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Captor)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2011, 2:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-video-games-make-you-violent/605751/35 "2011-12-12T14:01:45Z")
> [@CitizenPained](#): > > Violence de-sensitizes us to violence. Yes, that’s why people have PTSD, because they’ve been desensitized to vio … wait a minute … ---
**Author:** ![Rune](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e68b1a/32.png) [@Rune](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rune)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2011, 2:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-video-games-make-you-violent/605751/36 "2011-12-12T14:21:47Z")
The Red Cross seems to think so: > [@](#): > > One of the world’s largest and most respected humanitarian groups in the world is investigating whether the Geneva and Hague conventions should be applied to the fictional recreation of war in video games. > > If they agree those standards should be applied, the International Committee of the Red Cross says they may ask developers to adhere to the rules themselves or “encourage” governments to adopt laws to regulate the video game industry. [War Crimes in Video Games Draw Red Cross Scrutiny](http://kotaku.com/5863817/war-crimes-in-video-games-draw-red-cross-scrutiny) - about time orcs and goblins and cave trolls and undead skeleton zombies were given proper treatment under the Geneva Conventions! For the anecdote, a veteran major here in Denmark recently said that it had become considerable easier to train Danes to the killings of combat and war since he started in the 70s, and that that was due to undermining of Christian influence and of videogames. ---
**Author:** ![Jack\_Batty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jack_batty/32/3201_2.png) [@Jack\_Batty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jack_Batty)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2011, 2:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-video-games-make-you-violent/605751/37 "2011-12-12T14:27:32Z")
I’m pretty much a non-violent person. I try as best I can to avoid confrontation. I mean, if you punch me, I’ll likely punch you back, but I don’t go looking for fights. That said, I am fascinated by violence. Or, more to the point, pathology that leads to violence. I spend a good deal of time reading about serial killers, spree killer, mass murderers and the like. I’m curious about what makes people like that tick. Cut to me playing GTA: IV last night and going through the motions of a work-place shooting at Cluck-N-Bell. It’s not that I want to shoot a place like that up. It’s that places like that have already been shot up … and I’m curious about what it might have been like. Besides, unlike real life, I’ve got god-mode and I left the place without a scratch and a pile of 50 dead cops in the doorway. Hardly realistic. I don’t think anyone in their right mind would think they could pull something like that off. What I’m saying is … it’s art imitating life, not the other way around. At least for me. ---
**Author:** ![Typo\_Negative](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/typo_negative/32/484_2.png) [@Typo\_Negative](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Typo_Negative)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2011, 6:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-video-games-make-you-violent/605751/38 "2011-12-12T18:21:42Z")
I am one of the most non-violent people you will ever meet. I have not been in a physical altercation in 25 years. And that one was brief and I tried to avoid it. Actual violence makes me ill. But I LOVE targeting Nazis with my sniper rifle in Medal of Honor. I love mowing them down with an MG 42 in Call of Duty. I love dispatching the evil undead back to Hell with a chainsaw in Doom 3. ---
**Author:** ![Sitnam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Sitnam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sitnam)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2011, 6:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-video-games-make-you-violent/605751/39 "2011-12-12T18:40:17Z")
If morality adjusted because of visual stimuli every surviving holocaust victim would have become a serial killer. ---
**Author:** ![Zeriel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/58956e/32.png) [@Zeriel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zeriel)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2011, 7:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-video-games-make-you-violent/605751/40 "2011-12-12T19:39:52Z")
> [@Sitnam](#): > > If morality adjusted because of visual stimuli every surviving holocaust victim would have become a serial killer. There’s a pretty big chance, IMHO, that there’s a difference between “watching simulated violence”, “watching real violence”, and “controlling/enacting simulated violence.” The latter could at least plausibly habituate one to considering/taking violent choices in different circumstances, if only because making a choice is something you have to do actively whether that choice impacts a virtual world or the real one. – Z refers to it as the “ho-a-pult” when he powerslides his (bright purple) cement mixer broadside into a streetwalker in Saint’s Row 3, just so you know where my sympathies ultimately lie [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-video-games-make-you-violent/605751.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-video-games-make-you-violent/605751.md?page=3)