# Do violent protestors in Ferguson actually care about racism? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [August 16, 2014, 9:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-violent-protestors-in-ferguson-actually-care-about-racism/695709 "2014-08-16T21:19:30Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Blake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a9a28c/32.png) [@Blake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blake)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2014, 2:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-violent-protestors-in-ferguson-actually-care-about-racism/695709/21 "2014-08-18T02:31:47Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > It’s not shoplifting, it’s robbery. Robbery with violence at that. A far cry from shoplifting. I don’t know why people feel the need to try to minimise these things. The kid was committing a violent robbery. Doesn’t justify what appears to be a police execution, but pretending it didn’t happen just makes you appear biased and unreliable. ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2014, 2:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-violent-protestors-in-ferguson-actually-care-about-racism/695709/22 "2014-08-18T02:33:06Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > It’s not shoplifting, it’s robbery. And as the police “admitted”, the officer who shot Brown knew about the robbery, but didn’t know that Brown was the suspect. Not until he saw the cigars in his hands, and suspected him. Cite please. ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2014, 2:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-violent-protestors-in-ferguson-actually-care-about-racism/695709/23 "2014-08-18T02:45:41Z")
> [@Grumman](#): > > You can also see his accomplice, a black man with dreadlocks and wearing a black shirt. Plus, according to Johnson’s lawyer, Johnson told the FBI that it was them. Do you have a cite for Johnson’s lawyer admitting that? Not challenging just legitimately curious. I haven’t followed the case too closely. I can’t even say if the cap was a Cardinals baseball cap or not. ---
**Author:** ![Blake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a9a28c/32.png) [@Blake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blake)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2014, 2:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-violent-protestors-in-ferguson-actually-care-about-racism/695709/24 "2014-08-18T02:48:48Z")
> [@Ibn\_Warraq](#): > > Cite please. [Let me Wikipedia that for you.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shooting_of_Michael_Brown#Shooting_incident) ---
**Author:** ![Blake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a9a28c/32.png) [@Blake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blake)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2014, 2:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-violent-protestors-in-ferguson-actually-care-about-racism/695709/25 "2014-08-18T02:52:13Z")
> [@Ibn\_Warraq](#): > > Do you have a cite for Johnson’s lawyer admitting that? [Wikipedia is surprisingly useful for current events like this.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shooting_of_Michael_Brown#Robbery_incident_report) It’s only the contentious aftermath when it becomes worthless. ---
**Author:** ![Grumman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/43a26b/32.png) [@Grumman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grumman)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2014, 3:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-violent-protestors-in-ferguson-actually-care-about-racism/695709/26 "2014-08-18T03:21:57Z")
> [@Ibn\_Warraq](#): > > Do you have a cite for Johnson’s lawyer admitting that? From [here](http://www.msnbc.com/msnbc/ferguson-police-name-michael-brown): > [@](#): > > “We see that there’s tape, that they claim they got a tape that shows there was some sort of strong-armed robbery,” said Freeman Bosley, Johnson’s attorney. “We need to see that tape, **my client did tell us and told the FBI that they went into the store. He told FBI that [Brown] did take cigarillos.** He told that to the DOJ and the St. Louis County Police.” ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2014, 3:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-violent-protestors-in-ferguson-actually-care-about-racism/695709/27 "2014-08-18T03:25:38Z")
> [@Grumman](#): > > From [here](http://www.msnbc.com/msnbc/ferguson-police-name-michael-brown): Thank you. I mean that genuinely. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2014, 3:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-violent-protestors-in-ferguson-actually-care-about-racism/695709/28 "2014-08-18T03:59:50Z")
> [@Ibn\_Warraq](#): > > Cite please. > **[DAY SIX, DAY: The Rev. Jesse Jackson shows up at protest site as Brown family...](https://www.stltoday.com/news/local/crime-courts/michael-brown-a-suspect-in-robbery-of-cigars-from-store/article_52c40b84-ad90-5f9a-973c-70d628d0be04.html)** > > Surveillance video, reports about robbery were released Friday morning along with name of officer who shot Brown. **Ferguson officer realized during encounter that Michael Brown might be suspect in robbery, chief says** Jackson said the officer was aware cigars had been taken in the robbery of a store nearby, but did not know when he encountered Brown and Dorian Johnson that they might be suspects. He stopped them because they were walking in the street, Jackson said. \*\*But Jackson told the Post-Dispatch that the officer, Darren Wilson, saw cigars in Brown’s hand and realized he might be the robber. \*\* ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2014, 5:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-violent-protestors-in-ferguson-actually-care-about-racism/695709/29 "2014-08-18T05:26:10Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > [DAY SIX, DAY: The Rev. Jesse Jackson shows up at protest site as Brown family calls for calm](http://www.stltoday.com/news/local/crime-and-courts/michael-brown-a-suspect-in-robbery-of-cigars-from-store/article_52c40b84-ad90-5f9a-973c-70d628d0be04.html) > > **Ferguson officer realized during encounter that Michael Brown might be suspect in robbery, chief says** > > Jackson said the officer was aware cigars had been taken in the robbery of a store nearby, but did not know when he encountered Brown and Dorian Johnson that they might be suspects. He stopped them because they were walking in the street, Jackson said. > > \*\*But Jackson told the Post-Dispatch that the officer, Darren Wilson, saw cigars in Brown’s hand and realized he might be the robber. > \*\* Ok, so your cite is the Chief of police. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2014, 5:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-violent-protestors-in-ferguson-actually-care-about-racism/695709/30 "2014-08-18T05:29:49Z")
> [@Ibn\_Warraq](#): > > Ok, so your cite is the Chief of police. Well, yes. Who else would know what the policeman knew or saw? And what is yours? ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2014, 5:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-violent-protestors-in-ferguson-actually-care-about-racism/695709/31 "2014-08-18T05:48:38Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > Well, yes. Who else would know what the policeman knew or saw? And what is yours? I wasn’t making any judgements, just noting who your source was for your rather definitive statement. ---
**Author:** ![straight\_man](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/straight_man/32/3027_2.png) [@straight\_man](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/straight_man)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2014, 7:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-violent-protestors-in-ferguson-actually-care-about-racism/695709/32 "2014-08-18T07:30:40Z")
> [@Blake](#): > > Robbery with violence at that. A far cry from shoplifting. I don’t know why people feel the need to try to minimise these things. The kid was committing a violent robbery. Doesn’t justify what appears to be a police execution, but pretending it didn’t happen just makes you appear biased and unreliable. He threw the storekeeper out of the way when the storekeeper tried to block his exit. I get that it changes the crime committed, but it’s not exactly robbery at gunpoint, either. I would revise that opinion slightly if the storekeeper was elderly (I don’t know, I can’t watch the video from here). ---
**Author:** ![SeaDragonTattoo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/df705f/32.png) [@SeaDragonTattoo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SeaDragonTattoo)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2014, 7:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-violent-protestors-in-ferguson-actually-care-about-racism/695709/33 "2014-08-18T07:59:07Z")
Just to be clear, the accused strong-armed robbery committed in this case is called specifically in Missouri a “Robbery in the Second Degree” and is a Class B Felony. Cite: [Missouri Revised Statutes, Chapter 569, Robbery, Arson, Burglary and Related Offenses, Section 569.030](http://www.moga.mo.gov/statutes/c500-599/5690000030.htm) ---
**Author:** ![What\_the](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f4b2a3/32.png) [@What\_the](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_the)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2014, 1:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-violent-protestors-in-ferguson-actually-care-about-racism/695709/34 "2014-08-18T13:42:48Z")
> [@straight\_man](#): > > He threw the storekeeper out of the way when the storekeeper tried to block his exit. I get that it changes the crime committed, but it’s not exactly robbery at gunpoint, either. I would revise that opinion slightly if the storekeeper was elderly (I don’t know, I can’t watch the video from here). So Brown is the bigger of the two alleged felons in that tape correct? On the right is the store owner and on the left is Brown’s friend. The basic picture(s) of Brown that I’ve seen make him appear to be alot smaller/younger. ---
**Author:** ![FXMastermind](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fxmastermind/32/7289_2.png) [@FXMastermind](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FXMastermind)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2014, 1:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-violent-protestors-in-ferguson-actually-care-about-racism/695709/35 "2014-08-18T13:59:53Z")
There is some sort of horrific irony, that when a criminal is shot, other criminals riot and commit crimes, to protest the police shooting criminals. ---
**Author:** ![El\_Kabong](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/el_kabong/32/496_2.png) [@El\_Kabong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/El_Kabong)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2014, 2:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-violent-protestors-in-ferguson-actually-care-about-racism/695709/36 "2014-08-18T14:22:22Z")
> [@FXMastermind](#): > > There is some sort of horrific irony, that when a criminal is shot, other criminals riot and commit crimes, to protest the police shooting criminals. Those rioting and committing crimes are not most likely not the same individuals as the people protesting what they feel was an an unjustified shooting. Just pointing that out (for the second time). ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2014, 3:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-violent-protestors-in-ferguson-actually-care-about-racism/695709/37 "2014-08-18T15:23:18Z")
> [@FXMastermind](#): > > There is some sort of horrific irony, that when a criminal is shot, other criminals riot and commit crimes, to protest the police shooting criminals. No. When an unarmed man is shot, members of the community protest what they perceive as unnecessary police brutality. Some other criminals take the protest as an opportunity to riot and loot. ---
**Author:** ![Siam\_Sam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d78d45/32.png) [@Siam\_Sam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siam_Sam)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2014, 1:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-violent-protestors-in-ferguson-actually-care-about-racism/695709/38 "2014-08-19T01:49:04Z")
BBC interviewed a member of the black community in Ferguson. I’m sorry I didn’t catch his name or what sort of position he held, but he was laying the blame for the violence squarely on what he called “white provocateurs” among the crowds. Again, looking at this from afar, this sounds rather disingenuous to me even taking into consideration the heated emotions at the moment. This was BBC, and I don’t know if anything similar was aired on any US news programs. ---
**Author:** ![Grumman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/43a26b/32.png) [@Grumman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grumman)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2014, 11:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-violent-protestors-in-ferguson-actually-care-about-racism/695709/39 "2014-08-19T11:48:20Z")
> [@Siam\_Sam](#): > > BBC interviewed a member of the black community in Ferguson. I’m sorry I didn’t catch his name or what sort of position he held, but he was laying the blame for the violence squarely on what he called “white provocateurs” among the crowds. Again, looking at this from afar, this sounds rather disingenuous to me even taking into consideration the heated emotions at the moment. This was BBC, and I don’t know if anything similar was aired on any US news programs. It _is_ disingenuous. It is that mindset that causes the violence and the looting, not any alleged provocateurs. People who pretend they are not responsible for their own actions - that only white people have any agency while black people are slaves to unconscious reflex - only encourage these self-destructive fits. ---
**Author:** ![thinksnow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thinksnow/32/2849_2.png) [@thinksnow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thinksnow)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2014, 12:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-violent-protestors-in-ferguson-actually-care-about-racism/695709/40 "2014-08-20T00:05:09Z")
What gets me about some of the protestors is that they say that the fact the police officer didn’t know about the robbery when he initially contacted the two, (or maybe that he knew, but didn’t suspect them as being involved), means that is has no bearing at all on the escalation of violence. Well, about that: the _Officer Wilson_ may not have known, but _Brown_ surely did, and knowing that he had strong-arm robbed a place only 10 minutes prior to the cop showing up, it’s safe for most anyone to suspect he was freaking out in his own head, “Oh shit! The cop knows I robbed that place! Damn, I’m caught.” The wiki includes a much better statement to this: > [@](#): > > Eugene O’Donnell, a former district attorney in New York City who now serves as a professor at the John Jay College of Criminal Justice, said that while the police officer may have stopped Brown for jaywalking, Brown may have been thinking the officer knew about the robbery: “Obviously the cop’s reaction is not affected, but what could be affected is [Brown’s] reaction to the cop.” As more evidence comes out about the possible assault on the officer and the shooting happening entirely on the front of the victim (and now even that the victim was charging the officer while getting shot), racism seems to be less and less and less factor, as opposed to the simple circumstance of a violent attack on an officer that resulted in someones death. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-violent-protestors-in-ferguson-actually-care-about-racism/695709.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-violent-protestors-in-ferguson-actually-care-about-racism/695709.md?page=3)