# Do we have any confirmed examples of busty women in the past? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [August 17, 2016, 11:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-we-have-any-confirmed-examples-of-busty-women-in-the-past/763132 "2016-08-17T23:13:43Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Asuka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@Asuka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Asuka)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2016, 11:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-we-have-any-confirmed-examples-of-busty-women-in-the-past/763132/1 "2016-08-17T23:13:43Z")
It’s something weird I’ve been thinking for a while, but do we know anything about the breast sizes of important or famous women in the past? I know occasionally you’ll see reference to a famous historical man having a big penis but I don’t think I’ve ever read anything pointing out a famous woman having big breasts (Big breasts in this discussion will be DD or bigger, granted bra sizes weren’t around back then but it’s at least what I’m thinking of when I think big breasts) I know corsets and stuff really did make chests seem a lot bigger than they actually were back then, so actual descriptions or paintings of non-corseted women would be helpful. In terms of “past” generally I think pre-1900 but pictures of women pre-1950 would also be helpful. ---
**Author:** ![bob\_2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bob_2/32/3341_2.png) [@bob\_2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bob_2)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2016, 11:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-we-have-any-confirmed-examples-of-busty-women-in-the-past/763132/2 "2016-08-17T23:21:36Z")
Try searching for some of Rubens work. 17th c ---
**Author:** ![Waltzes\_with\_Cacti](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/90ced4/32.png) [@Waltzes\_with\_Cacti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Waltzes_with_Cacti)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2016, 11:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-we-have-any-confirmed-examples-of-busty-women-in-the-past/763132/3 "2016-08-17T23:48:18Z")
Also look for Sir Peter Lely’s portraits of ladies of the court of Charles II. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2016, 12:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-we-have-any-confirmed-examples-of-busty-women-in-the-past/763132/4 "2016-08-18T00:28:58Z")
I’d like to see those references to large penis size first. Who is saying that? ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2016, 12:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-we-have-any-confirmed-examples-of-busty-women-in-the-past/763132/5 "2016-08-18T00:51:13Z")
Anyone discussing Lyndon B. Johnson’s johnson. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2016, 2:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-we-have-any-confirmed-examples-of-busty-women-in-the-past/763132/6 "2016-08-18T02:19:04Z")
> [@Saint\_Cad](#): > > Anyone discussing Lyndon B. Johnson’s johnson. Well, the OP did say before 1900. Otherwise we could talk about Milton Berle and Forrest Tucker. [Lillian Russell](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lillian_Russell) is certainly the most famous busty woman in show business pre-1900. But I have a suspicion that the OP is talking about modern standards, which prescribe a tiny waist. Russell peaked at 200 pounds. She was curvaceous rather than fat, but she’d never be a Playboy centerfold. And she might be considered Rubeneque, but that does not imply large breasts. If you look at [Ruben’s women](https://www.google.com/search?newwindow=1&biw=1276&bih=675&tbm=isch&q=peter+paul+rubens+women&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwix27a78cnOAhWKHB4KHfQgD_MQhyYIIA) you see curves mostly in the waist and thighs. They are not very busty at all, proportionally. I don’t know of any era before ours that honored skinny women with large breasts as the epitome of beauty, so it would be difficult to find portraits that depicted them that way. The artist would have nudged the figure to contemporary standards. Corsets certainly compressed waists so that the breasts were greatly emphasized, but that presumably was done because the breasts were smallish to begin with. ---
**Author:** ![Leo\_Bloom](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leo_bloom/32/10377_2.png) [@Leo\_Bloom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leo_Bloom)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2016, 3:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-we-have-any-confirmed-examples-of-busty-women-in-the-past/763132/7 "2016-08-18T03:19:03Z")
What is it with big tits and GQ these last few days? Two threads with honest-to-God fetishes. Now this. ---
**Author:** ![Joey\_P](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/919ad9/32.png) [@Joey\_P](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Joey_P)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2016, 3:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-we-have-any-confirmed-examples-of-busty-women-in-the-past/763132/8 "2016-08-18T03:46:43Z")
Going back into old movies…I couldn’t tell you sizes, but what about Jayne Mansfield or maybe Marilyn or Mae West or come to think of that, the infinite amounts of pin up girl paintings. ---
**Author:** ![panache45](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/panache45/32/64_2.png) [@panache45](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/panache45)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2016, 8:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-we-have-any-confirmed-examples-of-busty-women-in-the-past/763132/9 "2016-08-18T08:44:02Z")
> [@Exapno\_Mapcase](#): > > I’d like to see those references to large penis size first. Who is saying that? I’m glad you asked, not me. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2016, 1:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-we-have-any-confirmed-examples-of-busty-women-in-the-past/763132/10 "2016-08-18T13:02:39Z")
While “busty women of the past”\* would probably make an excellent PhD thesis topic, I think the OP needs to take into account changing views of female pulchritude for the perceived dearth of this quality in olde times (for instance, cinema of the 1920s-1940s appeared to value other feminine qualities over chest expansion. Especially in '20s flappers.) \*Another thesis topic (arguably more limited) is the extent to which the term “busty” is utilized by women rather than men. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2016, 1:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-we-have-any-confirmed-examples-of-busty-women-in-the-past/763132/11 "2016-08-18T13:39:10Z")
I think it’s going to be extremely difficult to find any good information from the pre-photography era. Paintings usually try to make the subject look better than they actually do, whatever “looking better” means, so a painting of a woman will reflect the society’s preference for bust sizes (large or small) as much as the woman’s actual proportions. ---
**Author:** ![Hari\_Seldon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hari_seldon/32/5173_2.png) [@Hari\_Seldon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hari_Seldon)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2016, 3:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-we-have-any-confirmed-examples-of-busty-women-in-the-past/763132/12 "2016-08-18T15:37:22Z")
Evolution does not move quickly. It is pretty safe to assume that south Asian women have long (that is, tens of thousands of years) had generally larger breasts than east Asian women. A more interesting question is whether this represents sexual selection from men. ---
**Author:** ![jasg](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f0a364/32.png) [@jasg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jasg)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2016, 3:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-we-have-any-confirmed-examples-of-busty-women-in-the-past/763132/13 "2016-08-18T15:41:00Z")
If you want to go way back - Google “Paleolithic Venus”. ---
**Author:** ![EinsteinsHund](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/einsteinshund/32/8400_2.png) [@EinsteinsHund](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EinsteinsHund)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2016, 3:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-we-have-any-confirmed-examples-of-busty-women-in-the-past/763132/14 "2016-08-18T15:42:02Z")
Take a look at one [of the oldest pieces of art ever](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Venus_of_Willendorf) and judge for yourself. I never understood bra sizes, but that girl has got some big knockers. ---
**Author:** ![EinsteinsHund](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/einsteinshund/32/8400_2.png) [@EinsteinsHund](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EinsteinsHund)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2016, 3:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-we-have-any-confirmed-examples-of-busty-women-in-the-past/763132/15 "2016-08-18T15:47:17Z")
Damn, ninja’d by one minute :D. ---
**Author:** ![Kent\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kent_clark/32/105_2.png) [@Kent\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kent_Clark)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2016, 4:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-we-have-any-confirmed-examples-of-busty-women-in-the-past/763132/16 "2016-08-18T16:17:14Z")
I’m not going to provide any links, but the OP can search terms like Vicotrian pornography or 19th century erotica and see plenty of photos of actual pre-20th century naked women, with boobs of all sizes. ---
**Author:** ![dstarfire](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dstarfire/32/5762_2.png) [@dstarfire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dstarfire)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2016, 7:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-we-have-any-confirmed-examples-of-busty-women-in-the-past/763132/17 "2016-08-18T19:11:25Z")
Wasn’t Marie Antionette rather large-chested? At a museum in france, they have porcelain cups that were molded from her breasts (nipple included), for her. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2016, 7:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-we-have-any-confirmed-examples-of-busty-women-in-the-past/763132/18 "2016-08-18T19:17:26Z")
> **[Myth Busts: The Enduring Legacy of Breast-Shaped Glassware](https://www.eater.com/2014/12/10/7339903/breast-champagne-coupe-marie-antoinette)** > > No, that glass probably wasn't modeled on Marie Antoinette's assets. But that doesn't mean the story doesn't matter. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It can be... > [@](#): > > “It’s not out of the question that someone at some point may have made a mold of some famous woman’s breasts and then used it for a glass,” she went on, “but I don’t think there’s anything to indicate that Marie Antoinette herself would have lent her breast for a vessel.” > > … > > Nor is there any proof to back up any of the many variations on the Marie Antoinette tale. The champagne coupe was not modeled after the breasts of Helen of Troy; nor those of Joséphine de Beauharnais, wife of Napoleon; nor those of Diane de Poitiers, mistress of Henri II; nor Madame de Pompadour, chief mistress of Louis XV; nor Madame du Barry, another of Louis XV’s mistresses. It is true that Claudia Schiffer loaned a stylized outline of her left breast to a Karl Lagerfeld-designed ceramic coupe for Dom Perignon in 2008 (which, in its design, harkens back to Marie Antoinette’s own bol sein), and that our hero Kate Moss did the same for a crystal coupe, but those supermodels were inspired by mythology, tittles of historical apocrypha. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2016, 7:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-we-have-any-confirmed-examples-of-busty-women-in-the-past/763132/19 "2016-08-18T19:21:25Z")
The participants in this forum have some ideas — [http://forum.marie-antoinette.org/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=646&start=30](http://forum.marie-antoinette.org/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=646&start=30) — > [@](#): > > Post Re: weight and size(centimeters) > I have calculated her bust to waist ratio and it is 0.54. I think bust and waist ratio could from what I’ve read on BBC it could indicate how fertile a woman is or could be. > > … > Post Re: weight and size(centimeters) > “Weight ? No idea, dear… But we have informations from her milliner Mme Elofe : bosom 109 cm, waist 58 cm, that is to say an important ratio between the bosom and the waist. Of course, these measures were made late, after Marie Antoinette’s pregnancies. She was thiner when she was young. While aging, she got stouter.” > These measurements would translate into a 43 inch bust and 23 inch waist. Roughly, by today’s standards, and depending on height and frame, this would translate into a size equivalent of an extra large in today’s clothing. The waist would be a size small to medium, depending on the hips. :queen: ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2016, 8:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-we-have-any-confirmed-examples-of-busty-women-in-the-past/763132/20 "2016-08-18T20:11:14Z")
I looked for and could not find a Mme Elofe who was Marie Antoinette’s milliner, or anything else. [Rose Bertin](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rose_Bertin) was her milliner her entire queenly life. I can’t find any mention of her measurements other than on that forum and a couple of similar ones. Others talk about her being thin and petite but that could mean anything, and those are unsourced as well. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-we-have-any-confirmed-examples-of-busty-women-in-the-past/763132.md?page=2)