# Do we have any Dopers for McCain? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [June 10, 2008, 9:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-we-have-any-dopers-for-mccain/452493 "2008-06-10T21:42:15Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2008, 4:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-we-have-any-dopers-for-mccain/452493/41 "2008-06-11T16:36:00Z")
Just because Obama probably looks like a right winger to you BG doesn’t mean everyone else sees him in the same light. I’m highly skeptical of his economic policies to…and I’d say that while not a socialist he definitely has leanings in that direction with some of his proposals. Not that I’m planning to vote for McCain either. -XT ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2008, 4:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-we-have-any-dopers-for-mccain/452493/42 "2008-06-11T16:36:38Z")
[QUOTE=What Exit?] So I suspect, so I suspect. Can you imagine what Barry Goldwater or even Nixon would think of the current party? [/QUOTE] Goldwater once said something to the effect of, “Every good Christian ought to kick Jerry Falwell right in the ass!” That was when he was older and a lot more crotchety, mind you. See my location, and you’ll see my own candidate choice. But this has been a very interesting thread. Once again I’m glad that Dopers can disagree without (necessarily, or inevitably) being disagreeable. ---
**Author:** ![focusonz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/9dc877/32.png) [@focusonz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/focusonz)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2008, 4:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-we-have-any-dopers-for-mccain/452493/43 "2008-06-11T16:41:47Z")
I am voting straight republican ticket again! And I will vote straight republican even if McCain pisses on his shoe. Why, well you asked for it. **I support real GDP growth and McCain policies** McCain said he will keep the Bush tax cuts Real GDP growth under Bush January 2002 to January 2006 increased 12.5% Real GDP growth under Carter January 1977 to January 1981 increased 8.7% See [http://taxesandgrowth.ncpa.org/news/are-the-bush-tax-cuts-working](http://taxesandgrowth.ncpa.org/news/are-the-bush-tax-cuts-working) and [Pixeum:The Digital Gallery](http://www.data360.org/dsg.aspx?Data_Set_Group_Id=353) **I support household savings rates and McCain policies** The Household savings rate under democrat administrations has always gone down Household savings Under Carter 1977 to 1981 down from 10% to 8% Household savings Under Clinton 1992 to 2000 down from 7.5% to 2% The Household savings rate under republican administrations has always gone up Household savings Under Reagan 1981 to 1988 up from 8% to 12% then dropping back to 7.5% Household savings Under Bush 1 1988 to 1992 constant at 8% Household savings Under Bush 2 1981 to 1988 up from 2% to 3% then dropping back to 2% according to Bureau of Economic Analysis.See Figure 1 of [https://www.policyarchive.org/bitstream/handle/10207/2642/RL33168\_20051118.pdf?sequence=1](https://www.policyarchive.org/bitstream/handle/10207/2642/RL33168_20051118.pdf?sequence=1) But the savings rate according to Board of Governors of the Federal Reserve System. See figure 2 [https://www.policyarchive.org/bitstream/handle/10207/2642/RL33168\_20051118.pdf?sequence=1](https://www.policyarchive.org/bitstream/handle/10207/2642/RL33168_20051118.pdf?sequence=1) is more telling Household savings Under Carter 1977 to 1981 down from 14% to 12% Household savings Under Clinton 1992 to 2000 down from 10% to 1% Household savings Under Reagan 1981 to 1988 up from 12% to 15% Household savings Under Bush 1 1988 to 1992 down from 12% to 9% Household savings Under Bush 2 1981 to 1988 up from 1% to 6% **I support the War in Iraq and McCain policies** McCain said he will continue the War on Terror until it is won. Both democrat and republican unanimously supported the War. I will not screw over the Iraqi people by leaving prematurely because democrats are stupid. Polling data show that a large majority want the US gone but only when the job is done. The risk to the world economy from a middle East apocalypse is to great to leave. **I support health system reform and McCain policies.** Specifically, John McCain Will Work With States To Establish A Guaranteed Access Plan which is the more cost effective and patient responsive solution over a grandiose national health care plan. **I support elimination of ethanol subsidies and McCain policies.** John McCain Will End Policies That Contribute To Higher Transportation And Food Costs. Ethanol subsidies, tariff barriers and sugar quotas drive up food prices and hurt Americans. Ethanol has been the biggest hoodwink of the American consumer by environmentalists to date. **I can accept the remainder of McCain policies.** In particular if I have to accept AGW and a cap and trade program I prefer one like the successful acid rain trading program of the early 1990s. Also, McCain’s policy specifically addresses refocus of R&D efforts and Auctioning of Emissions Permits is deferred into the future giving a cap & trade market time to finds its own level of value. See [http://www.johnmccain.com/Informing/Issues/da151a1c-733a-4dc1-9cd3-f9ca5caba1de.htm](http://www.johnmccain.com/Informing/Issues/da151a1c-733a-4dc1-9cd3-f9ca5caba1de.htm) ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2008, 5:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-we-have-any-dopers-for-mccain/452493/44 "2008-06-11T17:45:28Z")
[QUOTE=focusonz] **I support elimination of ethanol subsidies and McCain policies.** John McCain Will End Policies That Contribute To Higher Transportation And Food Costs. Ethanol subsidies, tariff barriers and sugar quotas drive up food prices and hurt Americans. Ethanol has been the biggest hoodwink of the American consumer by environmentalists to date. [/QUOTE] Just one point, Ethanol and its subsidies are way more of a Corn Lobby hoodwink that an environmental hoodwink. Very few in the environmental movement approve of the current Ethanol situation. It has been suggested that a more productive crop should be use and that Brazil is only successful\* as they use sugarcane and not a less efficient crop like corn. I know many environmental groups were against the initial ethanol plans as they feared world food shortages. I myself do not buy the logic but it was an actual concern years ago. King Corn is a very powerful lobby, one of the strongest. Jim - Feel free to argue how successful Brazil has been, but their program is working for them. ---
**Author:** ![focusonz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/9dc877/32.png) [@focusonz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/focusonz)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2008, 7:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-we-have-any-dopers-for-mccain/452493/45 "2008-06-11T19:34:32Z")
[QUOTE=John Mace] Of course, I live in CA, so it probably doesn’t matter anyway… [/QUOTE] I does matter See [http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=9894342&postcount=43](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=9894342&postcount=43) If every one you come in contact with senses your resignation then that will reinforce their resignation. Take a pro active stance against Obama’s and democrat’s socialist economic plans. 2004 presidential registered voters 15,091,160 See [http://www.sos.ca.gov/elections/ror/15day\_stwddirprim\_08/hist\_reg\_stats.pdf](http://www.sos.ca.gov/elections/ror/15day_stwddirprim_08/hist_reg_stats.pdf) 2004 cast ballots 12,397,000 See [CNN.com Election 2004](http://www.cnn.com/ELECTION/2004/pages/results/states/CA/P/00/) Push pull and drag every one of those 4M registered but not voting voters to pull that red lever against socialism. Hope is for sissies! ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2008, 7:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-we-have-any-dopers-for-mccain/452493/46 "2008-06-11T19:42:53Z")
[QUOTE=focusonz] Push pull and drag every one of those 4M registered but not voting voters to pull that red lever against socialism. [/QUOTE] The ‘ **red** lever against socialism’, ehe?? 😛 -XT ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2008, 7:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-we-have-any-dopers-for-mccain/452493/47 "2008-06-11T19:44:57Z")
[QUOTE=focusonz] … If every one you come in contact with senses your resignation then that will reinforce their resignation. Take a pro active stance against Obama’s and democrat’s socialist economic plans. … Hope is for sissies! [/QUOTE] Would you care to elaborate on your phrase “Obama’s and democrat’s socialist economic plans.” Which plans of his are socialist, I just want to be able to keep track. Since when has Hope become something for sissies. Republicans use to believe in Hope for a better future. I sincerely ‘Hope’ that the Republicans will make public speeches that include phrases like that one. It should do wonders for Obama’s chances to win. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2008, 8:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-we-have-any-dopers-for-mccain/452493/48 "2008-06-11T20:34:10Z")
[QUOTE=focusonz] Take a pro active stance against Obama’s and democrat’s socialist economic plans. . . . Push pull and drag every one of those 4M registered but not voting voters to pull that red lever against socialism. [/QUOTE] . . . [What I said here.](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=9894995&postcount=60) ---
**Author:** ![Paladud](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Paladud](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Paladud)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2008, 8:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-we-have-any-dopers-for-mccain/452493/49 "2008-06-11T20:35:22Z")
[QUOTE=xtisme] Well, I found [this](http://www.ontheissues.org/Domestic/Barack_Obama_Gun_Control.htm) cite that talks about Obama’s positions on gun control. I have to say that it’s a bit soft as a lot of what he says, while articulate, doesn’t actually nail his positions down. However, on the one you are asking I think it’s a bit more plain: This seems pretty clear to me. -XT [/QUOTE] Moreover, he has expressed a desire to ban concealed carry nationwide in the past. ---
**Author:** ![control-z](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/eada6e/32.png) [@control-z](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/control-z)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2008, 8:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-we-have-any-dopers-for-mccain/452493/50 "2008-06-11T20:39:19Z")
As much as I think Obama _could_ be a great president, I can’t vote for him, too liberal and too Democratic. McCain it is, I guess…_grumble_… ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2008, 8:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-we-have-any-dopers-for-mccain/452493/51 "2008-06-11T20:41:21Z")
[QUOTE=control-z] As much as I think Obama _could_ be a great president, I can’t vote for him, too liberal and too Democratic. McCain it is, I guess…_grumble_… [/QUOTE] Just curious, what are your problems with McCain? If you think Obama could be great, why not take a chance? ---
**Author:** ![control-z](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/eada6e/32.png) [@control-z](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/control-z)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2008, 8:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-we-have-any-dopers-for-mccain/452493/52 "2008-06-11T20:44:12Z")
McCain seems like an inflexible bumbling old guy. Sorta like Bush. I’m not too eager to see our huge defense spending continue and the deficit grow larger. Obama’s problem is that he’s a Democrat, simple as that. I don’t agree with the principles of the Democratic party. ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2008, 8:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-we-have-any-dopers-for-mccain/452493/53 "2008-06-11T20:51:10Z")
[QUOTE=control-z] McCain seems like an inflexible bumbling old guy. Sorta like Bush. I’m not too eager to see our huge defense spending continue and the deficit grow larger. Obama’s problem is that he’s a Democrat, simple as that. I don’t agree with the principles of the Democratic party. [/QUOTE] That makes sense, I liked McCain more in 1999 than I do now. I worry about his age, his health and the compromises he has made in the last 7 years. I understand on Obama too. I made the jump, but I understand. At least Obama is far from a Kerry or Edwards. ---
**Author:** ![rainwalker78](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/eb9ed0/32.png) [@rainwalker78](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rainwalker78)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2008, 8:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-we-have-any-dopers-for-mccain/452493/54 "2008-06-11T20:57:27Z")
[QUOTE=Lightnin’] I’m seeing a lot of Dopers who plan on voting for Obama. There’s also quite a few who don’t want Obama to win the Presidency. Is there anyone here who plans on voting for McCain (as opposed to voting \*against \*Obama)? If so, why? What, in your mind, makes him the best choice for you? I’m not trying to rev up a Pit thread- I’m actually very curious. Disclosure: I fully intend to vote for Obama, because I feel that his policies best match my wishlist for good government (plus, I approve of the way he’s apparently bringing a sense of dignity back to the office). I’m not voting for him because he’s not McCain, or because he’s a Democrat- I just like his policies (especially on technology and the war). Is there anyone here who is planning on voting for McCain for reasons which aren’t “he’s not Obama” or “he’s not a Democrat”? Follow up question- did you vote for Bush in the last two elections? [/QUOTE] I am currently undecided, leaning toward McCain. Back at thanksgiving I was talking to my brother and his girlfriend about our possibilities. I said that my top two choices were McCain and Obama. I said that if either of them were their parties nominee, I would likely vote for them. I never really expected either of them to pull it off, let alone both of them. On the one hand, I am happy that one of my top two choices is going to be POTUS. On the other, it is a tough choice. The reason that I like McCain and Obama is that they seemed to be the two most likely to be able to rise of this partisan bickering and work with the “other side”. A lot, for me, is going to depend on how the two candidates run their campaigns. ---
**Author:** ![Shayna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shayna/32/17976_2.png) [@Shayna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shayna)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2008, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-we-have-any-dopers-for-mccain/452493/55 "2008-06-11T21:15:15Z")
[QUOTE=rainwalker78] A lot, for me, is going to depend on how the two candidates run their campaigns. [/QUOTE] I wonder how John McCain will respond to operatives on his side producing and airing ads [like this](http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/06/11/gop-operative-releases-ob_n_106469.html) (embedded in linked article). > [@](#): > > What may be more telling than the smear ad is the reaction that it engenders. Brown has a history of using barely discreet racist messaging to drive political discussion. So it is hardly a surprise to see him meddling in the Obama-is-a-Muslim affairs. > > But Sen. John McCain has pledged to run a smear-free campaign. His candidacy has no direct connections to Brown’s National Campaign Fund. And yet, his reaction to the group’s latest work could go a long way in determining the tone and tenor of the general election. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2008, 9:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-we-have-any-dopers-for-mccain/452493/56 "2008-06-11T21:20:58Z")
[QUOTE=rainwalker78] The reason that I like McCain and Obama is that they seemed to be the two most likely to be able to rise of this partisan bickering and work with the “other side”. A lot, for me, is going to depend on how the two candidates run their campaigns. [/QUOTE] No to spoil the fun or anything, but does Obama stand a chance in Arizona? ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2008, 9:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-we-have-any-dopers-for-mccain/452493/57 "2008-06-11T21:22:32Z")
[QUOTE=John Mace] No to spoil the fun or anything, but does Obama stand a chance in Arizona? [/QUOTE] Only if he taps Richardson for VP. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2008, 9:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-we-have-any-dopers-for-mccain/452493/58 "2008-06-11T21:27:53Z")
[QUOTE=BrainGlutton] Only if he taps Richardson for VP. [/QUOTE] I assume you mean because of the Hispanic vote (since Richardson is actually governor of New Mexico, not Arizona)…and I think I disagree with you there, at least as far as the Hispanics are concerned. I was reading something the other day (I think on CNN) that was saying that now things have been decided between Hillary and Obama that a lot of Hispanics are shifting their support to Obama and that the whole Hispanic vs Black thingy isn’t really materializing. What the author of the article was saying (he was a Hispanic himself) is that it wasn’t so much hostility against Obama that was making Hispanics vote for Hillary as it was simply that they liked Hillary and the ‘Clinton brand’ (paraphrase) better…and now that it’s decided they are switching to Obama. -XT ---
**Author:** ![rainwalker78](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/eb9ed0/32.png) [@rainwalker78](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rainwalker78)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2008, 9:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-we-have-any-dopers-for-mccain/452493/59 "2008-06-11T21:33:51Z")
[QUOTE=Shayna] I wonder how John McCain will respond to operatives on his side producing and airing ads [like this](http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/06/11/gop-operative-releases-ob_n_106469.html) (embedded in linked article). [/QUOTE] Me too. [QUOTE=John Mace] No to spoil the fun or anything, but does Obama stand a chance in Arizona? [/QUOTE] Well, I just moved hear from Nashville about a month ago, so I don’t know how everything is out here. However, Arizona’s current governor,[Janet Napolitano](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Janet_Napolitano) , seems popular. [QUOTE=wikipedia] Janet Napolitano (b. November 29, 1957) is the current governor of the U.S. state of Arizona, and a member of the Democratic Party, originally elected in 2002 and re-elected in 2006. She is Arizona’s third female governor, and the first female to win re-election. In November 2005, Time magazine named her one of the five best governors in the U.S.[1] In February 2006, Napolitano was named by The White House Project as one of “8 in '08”, a group of eight female politicians who could possibly run and/or be elected president in 2008.[2] Her placement on this list has also generated whispers of placement on the Democratic ticket for vice president.[3][4] [/QUOTE] If Obama picks her for VP, then his chances of winning AZ are probably better then McCain’s are of winning Illinois. Anecdotally, my wife is from Phoenix and adores McCain. She is strongly leaning toward Obama for POTUS. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2008, 9:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-we-have-any-dopers-for-mccain/452493/60 "2008-06-11T21:45:07Z")
[QUOTE=xtisme] I assume you mean because of the Hispanic vote (since Richardson is actually governor of New Mexico, not Arizona)…and I think I disagree with you there, at least as far as the Hispanics are concerned. I was reading something the other day (I think on CNN) that was saying that now things have been decided between Hillary and Obama that a lot of Hispanics are shifting their support to Obama and that the whole Hispanic vs Black thingy isn’t really materializing. What the author of the article was saying (he was a Hispanic himself) is that it wasn’t so much hostility against Obama that was making Hispanics vote for Hillary as it was simply that they liked Hillary and the ‘Clinton brand’ (paraphrase) better…and now that it’s decided they are switching to Obama. -XT [/QUOTE] Good news, but AZ is still a heavily Pub state, home of Barry Goldwater and national embarrassment [Evan Mecham](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evan_Mecham) as well as McCain himself. At least, the non-Hispanic white population is heavily Pub. But it is [29% Latino,](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arizona#Demographics) and a Latino on the ticket would really get the Hispanic voters (those who **are** voters, and I think most of them are actually citizens by now) to turn out in droves. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-we-have-any-dopers-for-mccain/452493.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-we-have-any-dopers-for-mccain/452493.md?page=4)