# Do we have any true "swing voters" here on the Dope? **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [January 1, 2020, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-we-have-any-true-swing-voters-here-on-the-dope/845731 "2020-01-01T18:22:39Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 11\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![thorny\_locust](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thorny_locust/32/431_2.png) [@thorny\_locust](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thorny_locust)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2020, 2:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-we-have-any-true-swing-voters-here-on-the-dope/845731/61 "2020-01-03T02:58:58Z")
> [@Max\_S](#): > > Yes, and where I live the primary _is_ the election. I’ve mentioned this before but in every single election I have ever participated in, every single candidate that wins our county, state, and even electoral votes is Republican. Ah. In that case, registering as Republican, whatever one’s own beliefs, could make sense. My county’s red; but not quite that red. And the congressional district is red – but nowhere near that red, and with some very blue pockets. A sufficiently good D candidate has a chance. ---
**Author:** ![Pantastic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3bc359/32.png) [@Pantastic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pantastic)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2020, 1:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-we-have-any-true-swing-voters-here-on-the-dope/845731/62 "2020-01-03T13:18:30Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Pretty much, they all did, and Biden said he was personally promised by the Shrub that America would invade, that it was just a threat. He was lied to, as was the rest of Congress. I agree that a lot of Democrats supported the war in Iraq, but I’m unclear why one would use a war that had broad bipartisan support as a reason to not vote for one of the two parties that supported it. Bush denies Biden’s claim of a personal promise not to go to war, and I don’t think that anyone naive enough to think that if they vote to authorize a war, that there’s no way there could be a war belongs anywhere near the presidency. Excessive naivety doesn’t seem to be the case with Biden though, he just seems to be rewriting his history (standard politician lying) since he said things like: “There is also a chance Saddam will once again miscalculate, that he will misjudge our resolve, and in that event we must be prepared to use force with others if we can, and alone if we must,” “Let everyone here be absolutely clear: I supported the resolution to go to war. I am NOT opposed to war to remove weapons of mass destruction from Iraq. I am NOT opposed to war to remove Saddam from those weapons if it comes to that.” - All quotes of Joe Biden from [https://www.cnn.com/2019/12/31/politics/fact-check-biden-buttigieg-iraq-afghanistan/index.html](https://www.cnn.com/2019/12/31/politics/fact-check-biden-buttigieg-iraq-afghanistan/index.html) ---
**Author:** ![RioRico](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f04885/32.png) [@RioRico](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RioRico)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2020, 8:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-we-have-any-true-swing-voters-here-on-the-dope/845731/63 "2020-01-04T08:44:46Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > No, CA voted for Dems presidents solidly since 1992, Arnie was elected 2003. Arnie was the last GOP Governor, but he wasnt very “red”, being socially liberal, and fiscally conservative. We need more like him, and less like the present president. **California elections in my lifetime.** Note: California has produced (R) presidents, no (D)s. Table headers link to cites. [Presidents](https://www.270towin.com/states/California) R (3) 1952-60 D (1) 1964 R (6) 1968-88 D (7) 1992-2016 R’s won 9 elections, D’s won 8 [Governors](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_governors_of_California) R (2) 1950-54 D (2) 1958-62 R (2) 1966-70 D (2) 1974-78 R (4) 1982-94 D (2) 1996-2002 R (2) 2003(s)-2006 D (3) 2010-18 R’s won 10 elections (including the 2003 recall special), D’s won 9 I can’t quickly find a historical table of partisan majorities of California’s congressional delegation or state legislative houses so I don’t when the representation flipped over and back. The greater Los Angeles suburbs of my youth were solid (R). Okay, the state flipped from (R) to (D) circa 1992 so I can’t blame Arnie. He just finalized it. [This L.A. Times report](https://www.latimes.com/projects/la-pol-ca-california-voting-history/) suggests the impetus: > [@](#): > > California’s Latino and Asian populations boomed in the 1990s and the growing segment of voters were turned off by the Republican Party’s hard-line stance on immigration. After the party closely tied itself to Proposition 187, a controversial California ballot measure that denied public services to people in the country illegally, Republicans struggled to win back the state’s immigrant population. GOP identified itself as the party of hate. If they hate you, vote for someone else. ---
**Author:** ![eenerms](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/cdc98d/32.png) [@eenerms](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eenerms)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2020, 6:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-we-have-any-true-swing-voters-here-on-the-dope/845731/64 "2020-01-04T18:26:10Z")
I fit the profile. Still a never Trumper though, but the way the Dems are acting (or Not Acting) on things that are for Citizens is making it difficult. ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2020, 8:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-we-have-any-true-swing-voters-here-on-the-dope/845731/65 "2020-01-04T20:20:19Z")
> [@Sage\_Rat](#): > > Historical major parties: > > - [Democratic-Republican](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democratic-Republican_Party) > - [Federalist](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federalist_Party) > - [National Republican](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Republican_Party) > - [Whig](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whig_Party_(United_States)) > - [Progressive Party (Bull Moose)](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Progressive_Party_(United_States,_1912)) > > There is no law saying that the current parties have to stay in place. **Dalej42** ’s essential point was correct. The Progressive Party hardly counts: it elected a total of one U.S. Senator. The 2 or 3 Progressive Party Governors were elected as D or R and switched Party in office. The Whig Party wasn’t much more than the National Republicans renamed. The other parties you mention were formed in reaction to one-party rule. So, is there an issue as strong as slavery to produce a 3rd-party takeover for only the second time in U.S. history? I don’t see it: There are lots of Republicans who would like to reject corruption and Trumpism, but they know their voter base is Trumpist. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2020, 6:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-we-have-any-true-swing-voters-here-on-the-dope/845731/66 "2020-01-06T18:41:43Z")
> [@Pantastic](#): > > I agree that a lot of Democrats supported the war in Iraq, but I’m unclear why one would use a war that had broad bipartisan support as a reason to not vote for one of the two parties that supported it. Bush denies Biden’s claim of a personal promise not to go to war, and I don’t think that anyone naive enough to think that if they vote to authorize a war, that there’s no way there could be a war belongs anywhere near the presidency. > > Excessive naivety doesn’t seem to be the case with Biden though, he just seems to be rewriting his history (standard politician lying) since he said things like: > “There is also a chance Saddam will once again miscalculate, that he will misjudge our resolve, and in that event we must be prepared to use force with others if we can, and alone if we must,” “Let everyone here be absolutely clear: I supported the resolution to go to war. I am NOT opposed to war to remove weapons of mass destruction from Iraq. I am NOT opposed to war to remove Saddam from those weapons if it comes to that.” - All quotes of Joe Biden from > [https://www.cnn.com/2019/12/31/politics/fact-check-biden-buttigieg-iraq-afghanistan/index.html](https://www.cnn.com/2019/12/31/politics/fact-check-biden-buttigieg-iraq-afghanistan/index.html) " I am NOT opposed to war to remove weapons of mass destruction from Iraq. " There were no weapons of mass destruction in Iraq. Thereby in effect, he was opposed to the war. He did ask that the UN team be given their chance to find the weapons. But it is s interesting purity test there. In effect it’s a meme send out by Sanders. Because only one person fails that test, and only two candidates even had a chance of taking it. Who know how Mayor pete would have voted IF : He was even old enuf to be in the Senate, or if he actually held a national office at any time. So, you have been suckered by the bernies bros into a setting up a very odd pruity test. ---
**Author:** ![Boozahol\_Squid\_P.I](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/d9b06d/32.png) [@Boozahol\_Squid\_P.I](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boozahol_Squid_P.I)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2020, 7:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-we-have-any-true-swing-voters-here-on-the-dope/845731/67 "2020-01-06T19:50:44Z")
I suppose I count as a swing voter, although it’s not quite as cut and dry as “it’s a complete toss-up between Trump and anyone who comes out of the Democratic primary.” I have a general history of voting for Republicans for national office, with occasional dips into voting for Libertarians in 2004 and 2016. My vote isn’t really a toss-up now so much as it will be decided by the Democratic primary: if Sanders somehow wins it, I’ll hold my nose and vote for Trump. If Elizabeth Warren wins the Democratic primary, it’s probable that I’ll wind up voting for the Libertarian or Constitution Party candidate. If it’s anyone else, I’ll vote for them over Trump. I despise Trump and the way he’s conducted himself in office, but I am unconvinced that he’ll do more damage in four more years than someone who has never seen a communist dictatorship he didn’t love like Bernie. Warren has campaigned so far like a copycat of his, yet I somehow doubt she’d govern that way, but I’m still a bit wary of her. I don’t think that any of the other Democratic candidates, no matter what they’ve said so far in the primaries, would govern any further left than Obama did, and I was fine with his Presidency. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2020, 7:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-we-have-any-true-swing-voters-here-on-the-dope/845731/68 "2020-01-06T19:56:02Z")
> [@Boozahol\_Squid\_P.I](#): > > I despise Trump and the way he’s conducted himself in office, but I am unconvinced that he’ll do more damage in four more years than someone who has never seen a communist dictatorship he didn’t love like Bernie. It’s my understanding that Bernie wants Canadian/Northern European style socialism rather than Cuban/Venezuelan style (the latter of which is far more authoritarian and kleptocratic). If you could be swayed that Canada was the goal rather than Cuba, would you still prefer Trump to Bernie? ---
**Author:** ![Red\_Wiggler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/red_wiggler/32/13190_2.png) [@Red\_Wiggler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Red_Wiggler)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2020, 8:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-we-have-any-true-swing-voters-here-on-the-dope/845731/69 "2020-01-06T20:15:58Z")
Yeah, that’s a pretty unfortunate characterization of what American “leftists” like Bernie are aiming for. I think the country has lots of voters with those kinds of misperceptions. ---
**Author:** ![zimaane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/a3d4f5/32.png) [@zimaane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zimaane)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2020, 8:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-we-have-any-true-swing-voters-here-on-the-dope/845731/70 "2020-01-06T20:33:45Z")
Given a choice between a standard Republican and a standard Democrat, I’ll weigh the positions, experience and attitudes of the two candidates and choose the better one to vote for. But I despise Trump’s temperament with the mocking and ridiculous tweets. Depending on the polls, I’ll either vote (D) or a third party as a protest. ---
**Author:** ![Boozahol\_Squid\_P.I](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/d9b06d/32.png) [@Boozahol\_Squid\_P.I](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boozahol_Squid_P.I)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2020, 8:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-we-have-any-true-swing-voters-here-on-the-dope/845731/71 "2020-01-06T20:44:54Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > It’s my understanding that Bernie wants Canadian/Northern European style socialism rather than Cuban/Venezuelan style (the latter of which is far more authoritarian and kleptocratic). If you could be swayed that Canada was the goal rather than Cuba, would you still prefer Trump to Bernie? I think Canada is the goal for the entirety of the Democratic Party, and it’s not a goal I find particularly appealing. If I thought Bernie was just another rank-and-file Democrat, yeah, I’d vote for him over Trump, but I don’t think his rhetoric is… rhetorical. Say what you want about Bernie, but he doesn’t pull any punches. He’s the guy who stands at a podium and says “Of course we’re going to tax the shit out of you: we’re going to give you everything you need!” It’s refreshing honesty, but it also means that when he sees the bills that will be required to pay for all of his promises, he’ll have no problem with… taxing the shit out of us. I feel like most of the other Democratic candidates, no matter how much they might talk about some of their more fanciful ideas, would balk (or at least moderate) at the requisite entire-society tax increases that would be needed. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-we-have-any-true-swing-voters-here-on-the-dope/845731.md?page=3)