# Do we have reliable evidence that happy animals produce tastier meat? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [April 22, 2017, 12:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-we-have-reliable-evidence-that-happy-animals-produce-tastier-meat/784983 "2017-04-22T12:39:22Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 8\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![panache45](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/panache45/32/64_2.png) [@panache45](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/panache45)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2017, 11:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-we-have-reliable-evidence-that-happy-animals-produce-tastier-meat/784983/21 "2017-04-27T11:09:20Z")
The happiest animals are the ones that don’t get eaten. ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2017, 12:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-we-have-reliable-evidence-that-happy-animals-produce-tastier-meat/784983/22 "2017-04-27T12:38:06Z")
Our neighbors finish a few pigs each year. They own a farm/market and give any food not fit for sale to the pigs. They lead a really idyllic life, then have one intensely bad afternoon. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2017, 1:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-we-have-reliable-evidence-that-happy-animals-produce-tastier-meat/784983/23 "2017-04-27T13:07:44Z")
> [@Shalmanese](#): > > It’s a pretty common refrain among sustainable farmers that happy animals make for better tasting meat which conveniently aligns the animal welfare crowd with the foodie crowd but has this been backed up by rigorous scientific study? > > It seems pretty well established at this point that the state of the animal at the immediate moment of slaughter can significantly impact meat quality and people like Temple Grandin have successfully used these insights to redesign slaughterhouses. It also seems pretty well established that feed quality also significantly impacts meat flavor and chickens that are allowed to scratch around and eat bugs and such end up being more richly flavored. > > However, I’ve not seen much evidence to suggest that psychological conditions unrelated to these other factors also impact meat quality. Does such research exist? What conclusions have scientists reached? Given that we have no objective way to measure how “happy” a cow or pig or chicken or whathaveyou is, that there is no way to vary psychological state independent of varying other aspects of living conditions, and that “tastier” is also a subjective experience that varies culturally and among individuals within cultures … how would you even _design_ such a study? So correlations and associations is what we got. Japanese Wagyu beef is considered by many to be the tastiest there is. And there cows are [pampered](http://www.cnn.com/2013/08/29/business/japanese-wagyu-beef/) as much as possible to keep them happy. > [@](#): > > … To keep the cattle happy – and ensure the beef tastes good – they feed the herd with seaweed and Omega three. They cut the hay to a certain length so the cows don’t have to chew too much. > Lighting in the cow’s sheds, I am told, “is done properly.” In other words – it’s mood lighting. > They’re considering playing music too, so the cows feel relaxed. Chapman, who seems to know most cows by name, evens brushes them. > They feed the Wagyu a special low energy concentrate, which costs $1,500 per animal per year. With straw, grain, labor and other costs, it’s not a cheap business. > But there’s logic behind this unorthodox farming. This strict regime, similar to that of a yoga retreat, improves the quality of the marbling and the animals’ fertility rates. > … They are possibly the happiest cows and they are possibly the tastiest. Was it the mood or what was done to achieve the mood? ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2017, 4:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-we-have-reliable-evidence-that-happy-animals-produce-tastier-meat/784983/24 "2017-04-27T16:02:46Z")
I recall reading a novel once (a Travis McGee mystery) in which one of the characters described a jungle predator toying with its pig-like victim for awhile, because terror tenderized the meat. Not sure if that’s a heavily reliable source. ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2017, 4:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-we-have-reliable-evidence-that-happy-animals-produce-tastier-meat/784983/25 "2017-04-27T16:12:23Z")
Animals should be treated well and given a good life before they are killed for consumption. Its the humane and right thing to do. I can’t really say if that produces better meat. But it does make me feel better. ---
**Author:** ![salinqmind](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/3ec8ea/32.png) [@salinqmind](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/salinqmind)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2017, 4:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-we-have-reliable-evidence-that-happy-animals-produce-tastier-meat/784983/26 "2017-04-27T16:39:56Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > Animals should be treated well and given a good life before they are killed for consumption. > > Its the humane and right thing to do. > > I can’t really say if that produces better meat. But it does make me feel better. Yes, me, too! I don’t eat much meat, but it would most certainly taste better and make me feel better, too, if I knew the animals were well-treated. ---
**Author:** ![Shalmanese](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/45deac/32.png) [@Shalmanese](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shalmanese)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2017, 6:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-we-have-reliable-evidence-that-happy-animals-produce-tastier-meat/784983/27 "2017-04-27T18:59:12Z")
> [@DSeid](#): > > Given that we have no objective way to measure how “happy” a cow or pig or chicken or whathaveyou is, that there is no way to vary psychological state independent of varying other aspects of living conditions, and that “tastier” is also a subjective experience that varies culturally and among individuals within cultures … how would you even _design_ such a study? > > So correlations and associations is what we got. Japanese Wagyu beef is considered by many to be the tastiest there is. And there cows are [pampered](http://www.cnn.com/2013/08/29/business/japanese-wagyu-beef/) as much as possible to keep them happy. > They are possibly the happiest cows and they are possibly the tastiest. Was it the mood or what was done to achieve the mood? Happiness might be subtle but unhappiness is very evident and, in this context, happiness might simply mean a lack of unhappiness. Cramped & unhygienic conditions, untreated injuries or illnesses, use of painful tools to herd the animals, all of these very obviously lead to animals suffering and being psychologically harmed. Also, tastier might be to some degree subjective but there are also obvious defects in the meat that pretty much everyone agrees on. Mushy or pasty texture, dry or chalky mouthfeel, sour, musty or taint smells, bland and watery flavor are all pretty universally considered defects. These questions aren’t 100% obvious but they’re not super hard either. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2017, 7:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-we-have-reliable-evidence-that-happy-animals-produce-tastier-meat/784983/28 "2017-04-27T19:50:09Z")
> [@Shalmanese](#): > > Happiness might be subtle but unhappiness is very evident and, in this context, happiness might simply mean a lack of unhappiness. I think that’s the definition you have to go with here. In the case of the Wagyu beef we reasonably believe the meat is superior based on anecdotal evidence but we don’t know that they are happier than any other well cared for cattle which produce meat less tasty. To counter the argument, if we assume geese aren’t happy about being force-fed until their livers are grossly bloated then we have a case where unhappy animals produce tastier meat. Other cases are less clear, does a calf really care that it’s being force-fed to produce veal? Do Wagyu cattle mind being castrated? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-we-have-reliable-evidence-that-happy-animals-produce-tastier-meat/784983.md?page=1)