# Do we know all the rocks there are? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [May 20, 2025, 9:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-we-know-all-the-rocks-there-are/1018569 "2025-05-20T09:38:01Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2025, 3:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-we-know-all-the-rocks-there-are/1018569/41 "2025-05-22T15:11:56Z")
> [@DSeid](#): > > I have some vague recollection of exotic glass structures predicted but not yet observed? Would those count? Not finding what I was thinking of, so maybe I am confusing it with those exotic ice forms (and water existing in glass form)? Which gets me wondering, definitionally, can water ever be “rock”? ETA thanks @TriPolar. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2025, 3:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-we-know-all-the-rocks-there-are/1018569/42 "2025-05-22T15:15:00Z")
> [@DSeid](#): > > I am reading no, because no crystal structures Crystalline minerals are not the only rock-forming components - other non-crystalline rock components include opal and amber > [@DSeid](#): > > can water ever be “rock” Yes. Glaciers and ice sheets would be monomineralic rock consisting of the mineral ice. And naturally-occurring ice is _definitely_ a mineral. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2025, 3:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-we-know-all-the-rocks-there-are/1018569/43 "2025-05-22T15:23:36Z")
Thanks. Interesting. ---
**Author:** ![Darren\_Garrison](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darren_garrison/32/92_2.png) [@Darren\_Garrison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darren_Garrison)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2025, 7:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-we-know-all-the-rocks-there-are/1018569/44 "2025-05-22T19:46:43Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > And naturally-occurring ice is _definitely_ a mineral. And a major structural component of rocky bodies in space past the [snow line](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frost_line_(astrophysics)). This photo from Titan is ugly rocks of mostly water. [![](https://astrobiology.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/07/Titans-Rocks-Of-Ice.png) ](https://astrobiology.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/07/Titans-Rocks-Of-Ice.png) We are used to ice so close to its melting point that it is extremely easy to [sinter](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sintering). ---
**Author:** ![Precambrianmollusc](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/precambrianmollusc/32/63_2.png) [@Precambrianmollusc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Precambrianmollusc)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2025, 11:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-we-know-all-the-rocks-there-are/1018569/45 "2025-05-22T23:43:11Z")
There are a few issues with deep drilling, temperature is certainly one of them. Firstly it should be noted that subsurface temperature gradients vary widely , if you go to Iceland you don’t have to drill far before things get zippy, however in the Gulf of Mexico you can be 30,000 feet true vertical depth ( with the first 10,000 feet being water) and still only be at 125C, them move 20 miles and be at the same depth but at 300C. So deep doesn’t always mean hot and vice versa, but if we are talking super deep then sure deep is hot. If for a moment we ignore fracture and collapse gradient and pore pressures of the formations we are drilling through , which we will come back to , and could drill an 8 1/2 in diameter hole from surface as deep as we want to go , and we just wanted to go straight down so no directional work , what stops us? Drilling uses a drill bit and behind it drill pipe that we are circulating fluids down through the bit and up the annulus. 5 in OD drill pipe typically weighs 19lb/ ft and using 135ksi steel has a tensile load of about 560 klbf. However as you have to rotate the pipe you are applying torque at the top which drops the rating to 420klbf which gets you to 26,000 feet ( we have some buoyancy from the fluid) You could use thicker pipe , but then it just gets heavier faster and exceeds its tensile limits. The way around that is to use skinnier pipe at the bottom and thicker pipe at the top , so maybe 4 in drill pipe at the bottom and 6 5/8 1 in wall at the top and optimize strength vs weight . However as you drill deeper you will have to keep pulling out and adjusting the amounts of the various pipes. We could go for higher strength steels say 160 ksi, but they will get harder and more brittle , and expensive. As we get hotter the steels start to get softer and the tensile strength drops , needing further optimization of all the different weights and diameters of the drill pipe. Lighter materials have been tried , aluminum drill pipe has all kinds off issues and has lower tensile strength so you need thicker pipe and really doesn’t help much , plus worse temperature issues . Titanium alloys have been tried, and other than really expensive also lose strength with temperature. For sure it is hot down at the bottom where the load will be lower, but the fluids we are circulating will heat everything else up up the drill string . Insulated drill pipe is a thing but rare. Assuming we find a balance of pipe strength , weight and temperature , next stop is the bit being used to cut the rock , most cutting elements are polycrystalline diamond cutters (PDC) and those cutters start to degrade in wear performance over 400C , and as the rocks typically get abrasive that is another issue . Artificial diamonds impreg bits will go higher , but need higher rotary speeds to cut, which impacts the drill pipe wear. Diamonds don’t like iron either. There are some higher temperature rated artificial diamond like things, but the tend to have lower toughness and would struggle with compressive loads needed to break the rock. So yes we can drill hot stuff, it would just be a lot of trips in and out to keep changing the bit. That’s all to say , yes even for the simplest concept of drilling straight down, and ignoring most actual real world issues ( pore pressure, collapse pressure, fluids needed to stop bad things happening , the casing needed to support the hole and cement , thermal stability of the fluids, any need to actually measure what is being drilled through or maintain the direction, the drilling rig needed and the cost of it all) we would need some significant improvements in just the metallurgy available for the pipe and cutter technology, and big bags of cash. Big big bags of cash. Some work is being done on plasma drilling and millimeter wave drilling that could remove some of the constraints of needing the pipe to carry the energy to break the rock, but those are a way off. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2025, 11:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-we-know-all-the-rocks-there-are/1018569/46 "2025-05-22T23:54:28Z")
Gosh, Tom Swift didn’t have all those problems when he drilled to the Earth’s core with his atomic earth-blaster and got gushers of molten iron in the Antarctic! > **[Tom Swift and his Atomic Earth Blaster](https://www.tomswift.info/homepage/aearth.html)** ---
**Author:** ![Precambrianmollusc](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/precambrianmollusc/32/63_2.png) [@Precambrianmollusc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Precambrianmollusc)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2025, 12:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-we-know-all-the-rocks-there-are/1018569/47 "2025-05-23T00:13:50Z")
That’s because Tom looked at the problem of drilling deeply , in depth. ---
**Author:** ![sb1953](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a87d85/32.png) [@sb1953](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sb1953)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2025, 11:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-we-know-all-the-rocks-there-are/1018569/48 "2025-05-23T11:05:54Z")
Fascinating! .So the liquid that is pumped down and then comes back up:..Shouldn’t that function as a coolant for the drill bit?? T ---
**Author:** ![Frodo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/frodo/32/302_2.png) [@Frodo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frodo)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2025, 12:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-we-know-all-the-rocks-there-are/1018569/49 "2025-05-23T12:43:28Z")
I believe it does, but it must have limits. ---
**Author:** ![Precambrianmollusc](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/precambrianmollusc/32/63_2.png) [@Precambrianmollusc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Precambrianmollusc)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2025, 12:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-we-know-all-the-rocks-there-are/1018569/50 "2025-05-23T12:54:40Z")
Yes it acts to cool the bit, and amongst other things it also carries the rock cuttings back to surface, cleans the bit , applies some hydraulic force to help cut the rock, provides lubrication between the pipe and the wall of the hole , it has to avoid chemically reacting with the rock itself, and probably most importantly , the hydrostatic pressure of the fluid prevents the hole from collapsing , or influxes of fluids contained in the pore space of the rock ( in oil and gas wells that would be a kick or a blow out) but care is needed if the fluid is too dense and the bottom hole pressure gets too high you end up fracturing the rock and things get messy. Balancing bottom hole pressure with rock strength is a difficult problem and that’s where strings of casing ( metal pipe ) have to be run in and the cemented in to isolate some formations. The well ends up looking like an extended telescope with the hole getting progressively smaller in diameter as you have to isolate the formations as you get deeper. And yes it gets harder to keep the fluid cool as you get deeper . The hot fluid coming up the annulus heats the cool fluid going down the pipe bore, so the cooling gets progressively worse. I mention insulated drill pipe was something that was developed to help with that but it’s very unique and has its own challenges in strength etc ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2025, 6:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-we-know-all-the-rocks-there-are/1018569/51 "2025-05-26T06:05:07Z")
> [@Precambrianmollusc](#): > > And yes it gets harder to keep the fluid cool as you get deeper . The hot fluid coming up the annulus heats the cool fluid going down the pipe bore, so the cooling gets progressively worse. On the [Kola borehole](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kola_Superdeep_Borehole), the mud was “boiling” when it came back up. ---
**Author:** ![Darren\_Garrison](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darren_garrison/32/92_2.png) [@Darren\_Garrison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darren_Garrison)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2025, 6:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-we-know-all-the-rocks-there-are/1018569/52 "2025-06-18T18:43:54Z")
> **[Lithium-Rich Mineral Found In Only One Place On Earth Has Its Recipe Finally...](https://www.iflscience.com/lithium-rich-mineral-found-in-only-one-place-on-earth-has-its-recipe-finally-revealed-79613)** > > Precious jadarite has the same chemical formula as the fictional kryptonite. ---
**Author:** ![Darren\_Garrison](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darren_garrison/32/92_2.png) [@Darren\_Garrison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darren_Garrison)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2025, 3:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-we-know-all-the-rocks-there-are/1018569/53 "2025-06-24T03:58:28Z")
Three newly recognized minerals: > **[Geologists discover three new minerals in the southwestern U.S.](https://www.earth.com/news/geologists-discover-three-new-mineral-specimens-in-southwestern-us/)** > > Geologists discover three unique new minerals at Cookes Peak, New Mexico: raydemarkite, virgilluethite, and stunorthropite. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2025, 4:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-we-know-all-the-rocks-there-are/1018569/54 "2025-06-24T04:42:10Z")
Just a reminder: > [@MrDibble](#): > > new mineral =/= new rock ---
**Author:** ![Darren\_Garrison](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darren_garrison/32/92_2.png) [@Darren\_Garrison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darren_Garrison)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2025, 5:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-we-know-all-the-rocks-there-are/1018569/55 "2025-06-24T05:19:04Z")
Do you really think the OP was making that level of distinction in his question? ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2025, 5:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-we-know-all-the-rocks-there-are/1018569/56 "2025-06-24T05:29:23Z")
Clarity of language is important in scientific questions, which the OP’s was. ---
**Author:** ![rbroome](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/838e76/32.png) [@rbroome](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rbroome)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2025, 9:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-we-know-all-the-rocks-there-are/1018569/57 "2025-06-24T21:16:07Z")
Minerals evolve and so new minerals are being created all the time. Certainly they are being discovered and classified all the time. That is the thesis of Robert Hazen’x “The Story of Earth”, 2012. A very interesting book. His thesis is that the earth and life have co-evolved over time. As one of many examples, certain minerals require dissolved oxygen to form deep in the earth. There has to be oxygen dissolved in the water that is transported down into the mantle for certain minerals to form. Geologists use the existence and age of these minerals to estimate the occurrence of oxygen in the atmosphere. And certain minerals are thought to be important for the evolution of life. Clays for instance are crucial in some theories for the evolution of early life. Can’t have clay without weathered rock containing certain minerals. And some rocks appear to help living organisms grow better. So rocks help life evolve and life helps minerals evolve. Dr. Hazen explains it much better than I can. So not only are new minerals discovered all the time, new minerals are formed all the time as the exact composition of the air and water change and influence the formation of new minerals. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2025, 10:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-we-know-all-the-rocks-there-are/1018569/58 "2025-09-05T10:28:27Z")
News article: mineral found in samples from Ryugu asteroid not found on Earth. > [@](#): > > The [asteroid](https://www.sciencealert.com/asteroid) Ryugu is an echo from the deep, distant past. Two tiny grains of the rock, delivered to Earth in 2020 by the [famous Hayabusa2 mission](https://www.sciencealert.com/astronomers-release-the-first-photos-of-material-collected-from-asteroid-ryugu), contain minerals older than any found on our planet. > … > Northrup and team’s paper doesn’t confirm what this mineral is, but [further study](https://doi.org/10.1038/s41550-024-02366-w) of the asteroid material later in 2024 turned up hydrated ammonium magnesium phosphorus (HAMP). This is a crystalline mineral not found on our planet that is most similar to Earthly [struvite](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Struvite). > **[Asteroid Fragment Reveals a Strange Mineral Never Seen on Earth](https://www.sciencealert.com/asteroid-fragment-reveals-a-strange-mineral-never-seen-on-earth)** > > The asteroid Ryugu is an echo from the deep, distant past. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2025, 10:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-we-know-all-the-rocks-there-are/1018569/59 "2025-09-05T10:29:05Z")
Very cool! Thanks. ---
**Author:** ![vbob](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/vbob/32/4439_2.png) [@vbob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vbob)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2025, 10:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-we-know-all-the-rocks-there-are/1018569/60 "2025-09-05T10:43:30Z")
> [@TriPolar](#): > > Wiki says a rock is “[any naturally occurring solid mass or aggregate of minerals or mineraloid matter](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rock_(geology))”. So that rules out the supernatural, but is not a technician in a lab a part of nature? PS: Our own favorite Cumberlandite has cropped up in Sweden! [Sisterhood and sister ore connect Rhode Island and Sweden](https://www.valleybreeze.com/news/sisterhood-and-sister-ore-connect-rhode-island-and-sweden/article_e05b056f-e6e3-4431-ac76-8ba366771ba9.html) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-we-know-all-the-rocks-there-are/1018569.md?page=2)