# Do we really "owe" Trump a chance? **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [November 13, 2016, 12:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-we-really-owe-trump-a-chance/771733 "2016-11-13T00:19:04Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![ThelmaLou](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thelmalou/32/390_2.png) [@ThelmaLou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThelmaLou)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2016, 2:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-we-really-owe-trump-a-chance/771733/21 "2016-11-13T02:25:52Z")
> [@Pearl\_Clutching\_Provocateur](#): > > Trump derangement syndrome. > > Liberals already see \*\*every \*\*Republican as racists, hateful Neanderthals. So Trump comes along and fights back. He didn’t back down his like predecessors. Because Liberals are really bullies, they **can’t handle it**. Liberals built up Trump to be the personification of evil because **they can’t stand** opposition. **They can’t stand** that Americans aren’t validating their beliefs. My bold. Hyperbole is not helping your case. Liberals do not see Trump as the personification of evil. Quite the contrary, I don’t think he is the personification of anything. He has no core, no principles. He’s a tower of Jell-o, a puppet who is available to let an opportunistic hand slide right up his you-know-what. Can anyone name one thing that he has CONSISTENTLY stood for? No. Because there’s nothing. And he admits it! The day after the election, I heard him on the radio, and he said, “I said what I needed to say to get an outsider elected. That’s not who I am and not how I plan to run the country.” He’s already backed down on the Mexico wall and blocking Muslim immigration. All of his followers are going to find out what I said above: he has no center, no principles, no core. He will say whatever the moment requires and doesn’t care if he comes across at inconsistent and even wishy-washy. He answers to no one! Hell, he just won the biggest prize our country has to offer! Fuck that Emmy he didn’t get. Don’t need no stinkin’ Emmy no more. ---
**Author:** ![Fubaya](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/c2a13f/32.png) [@Fubaya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fubaya)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2016, 2:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-we-really-owe-trump-a-chance/771733/22 "2016-11-13T02:31:15Z")
I don’t understand anyone looking at this in terms of republicans/democrats or Dubya/Obama. Trump should transcend that. I am not the least bit against trump because he’s a republican. I am against racism. I am against hate. I am against Russia. Trump is for these things. Sure, maybe he’ll do a 180 and things will work out ok, but so far he is putting people in power that are also for these things so I will continue to oppose him. ---
**Author:** ![you\_with\_the\_face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ecccb3/32.png) [@you\_with\_the\_face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/you_with_the_face)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2016, 2:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-we-really-owe-trump-a-chance/771733/23 "2016-11-13T02:43:13Z")
> [@drewder](#): > > Maybe you should try giving him a chance not to. I fear though that many on this board will never be able to see past their own hate and fear. Gee, could it have something to do with what Trump has been saying, doing, and tweeting for the last year? If Trump winning the election means we’re supposed to acquire collective amnesia and act like none of that happened, I’m hoping insurance companies will pay for all of our lobotomies before ACA is axed. ---
**Author:** ![El\_Kabong](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/el_kabong/32/496_2.png) [@El\_Kabong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/El_Kabong)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2016, 2:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-we-really-owe-trump-a-chance/771733/24 "2016-11-13T02:44:15Z")
What does it even mean to say, ‘give him a chance’? Apparently, discussing any potential negatives of a Trump presidency on an anonymous message board somehow equates to ‘not giving him a chance’? I’m not throwing bricks through any windows, and I’m paying my taxes. That’s all the slack Trump, or any candidate of his ilk, gets from me. ---
**Author:** ![Siam\_Sam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d78d45/32.png) [@Siam\_Sam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siam_Sam)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2016, 2:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-we-really-owe-trump-a-chance/771733/25 "2016-11-13T02:47:09Z")
If it were up to me, I would not give Trump a chance. Not at all. As far as I’m concerned, considering his behavior, especially over the past year, he’s forfeited any right to any chance. He’s a disgusting piece of fuck, pure and simple. Unfortunately, it’s all academic. Deserving or not, we have him for four years. If the protesters want to try to wear him down, I say more power to them, but I think I know who’s going to blink first. I can only hope the Democratic Party is already trying to pick up the pieces and map out a better strategy for 2020. ---
**Author:** ![Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/budget_player_cadet/32/205_2.png) [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Budget_Player_Cadet)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2016, 2:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-we-really-owe-trump-a-chance/771733/26 "2016-11-13T02:52:53Z")
> [@Do\_Not\_Taunt](#): > > See, I just can’t behind this. If he proposes privatizing social security, sure, filibuster, march the streets, go nuclear. But if he were to propose something sensible, like an infrastructure program that doesn’t completely ignore cities’ needs, there’s no reason to oppose that. That’s a good program. > > In other words, hold his feet to fire when he proposes dumb stuff, but don’t oppose for the sake of opposition. Oppose for the sake of getting better results. So… Just to be clear… Because the democrats are willing to play ball, and the republicans aren’t, the republicans will be the only party ever able to pass legislation that helps people? ---
**Author:** ![Dr\_Paprika](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr_paprika/32/3042_2.png) [@Dr\_Paprika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr_Paprika)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2016, 3:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-we-really-owe-trump-a-chance/771733/27 "2016-11-13T03:18:03Z")
What choice do you have? ---
**Author:** ![Pearl\_Clutching\_Provocateur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c68b51/32.png) [@Pearl\_Clutching\_Provocateur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pearl_Clutching_Provocateur)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2016, 3:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-we-really-owe-trump-a-chance/771733/28 "2016-11-13T03:43:23Z")
> [@ThelmaLou](#): > > My bold. > > Hyperbole is not helping your case. > > Liberals do not see Trump as the personification of evil. Quite the contrary, I don’t think he is the personification of anything. He has no core, no principles. He’s a tower of Jell-o, a puppet who is available to let an opportunistic hand slide right up his you-know-what. Can anyone name one thing that he has CONSISTENTLY stood for? No. Because there’s nothing. > > And he admits it! The day after the election, I heard him on the radio, and he said, “I said what I needed to say to get an outsider elected. That’s not who I am and not how I plan to run the country.” > > He’s already backed down on the Mexico wall and blocking Muslim immigration. All of his followers are going to find out what I said above: he has no center, no principles, no core. He will say whatever the moment requires and doesn’t care if he comes across at inconsistent and even wishy-washy. > > He answers to no one! Hell, he just won the biggest prize our country has to offer! Fuck that Emmy he didn’t get. Don’t need no stinkin’ Emmy no more. You don’t understand Trump. He’s a negotiator. He knows he can’t go into a negotiation without some pretense of flexibility. It’s the Art of the Deal. It doesn’t matter if a wall is built or not. All his supporters really want is a stop to illegal immigration. Hell, they’re already leaving and the ones headed this way are reconsidering coming. Honestly, we’re nice people. We have compassion. But things have gotten out of control. Not only with immigration but a lot of other things too. ---
**Author:** ![jshore](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/b5e925/32.png) [@jshore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jshore)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2016, 3:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-we-really-owe-trump-a-chance/771733/29 "2016-11-13T03:55:29Z")
> [@Do\_Not\_Taunt](#): > > See, I just can’t behind this. If he proposes privatizing social security, sure, filibuster, march the streets, go nuclear. But if he were to propose something sensible, like an infrastructure program that doesn’t completely ignore cities’ needs, there’s no reason to oppose that. That’s a good program. > > In other words, hold his feet to fire when he proposes dumb stuff, but don’t oppose for the sake of opposition. Oppose for the sake of getting better results. I agree. I do think, however, that Democrats should filibuster on a Supreme Court nominee to replace Scalia (if that’s still possible anymore) unless Trump picks one who is a true middle-of-the-road person. Because what the Republicans did with not allowing Obama’s nominee to get a hearing is unconscionable, and such shitting on the Constitution should not be rewarded. ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2016, 4:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-we-really-owe-trump-a-chance/771733/30 "2016-11-13T04:00:43Z")
If Republicans hadn’t acted like total douches for the entire Obama presidency, I’d say give Cheeto a chance. But you can’t let someone bitchslap you for eight years and make all nice when it’s their turn. Republicans have made it abundantly clear that the only thing they care about is political power for its own sake, we either react in kind or face extinction. ---
**Author:** ![jshore](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/b5e925/32.png) [@jshore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jshore)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2016, 4:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-we-really-owe-trump-a-chance/771733/31 "2016-11-13T04:02:22Z")
> [@Pearl\_Clutching\_Provocateur](#): > > Trump derangement syndrome. No, it is “Trump is deranged syndrome”. Very few people in democracies anywhere around the world, except for in the U.S., can understand how such an ill-qualified person, in terms of temperament, intellect, compassion, … can be elected President. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2016, 4:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-we-really-owe-trump-a-chance/771733/32 "2016-11-13T04:05:20Z")
> [@Pearl\_Clutching\_Provocateur](#): > > Liberals already see every Republican as racists, hateful Neanderthals. So Trump comes along and fights back. He didn’t back down his like predecessors. Because Liberals are really bullies, they can’t handle it. Liberals built up Trump to be the personification of evil because they can’t stand opposition. They can’t stand that Americans aren’t validating their beliefs. Bullshit, Pearl. The people who get called racist are the ones who say and do racist things. Or the ones standing on the sidelines telling them it’s okay. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2016, 4:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-we-really-owe-trump-a-chance/771733/33 "2016-11-13T04:11:18Z")
> [@jshore](#): > > I agree. > > I do think, however, that Democrats should filibuster on a Supreme Court nominee to replace Scalia (if that’s still possible anymore) unless Trump picks one who is a true middle-of-the-road person. Because what the Republicans did with not allowing Obama’s nominee to get a hearing is unconscionable, and such shitting on the Constitution should not be rewarded. I think Democrats should state that anybody who was elected to the Presidency without a majority of the popular vote doesn’t have the clear mandate of the people and we should defer the selection of Supreme Court justices until the next President is in office. The Democrats should make it clear that like the Republican principle about a President in his last year in office, this is a general rule and is not targeted at any one President. ---
**Author:** ![jshore](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/b5e925/32.png) [@jshore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jshore)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2016, 4:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-we-really-owe-trump-a-chance/771733/34 "2016-11-13T04:19:16Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > Bullshit, Pearl. The people who get called racist are the ones who say and do racist things. Or the ones standing on the sidelines telling them it’s okay. Hell, even Paul Ryan called Donald Trump’s statements about the judge of Mexican heritage ‘the textbook definition of a racist comment’. It’s not like there is any large debate on this point. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2016, 4:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-we-really-owe-trump-a-chance/771733/35 "2016-11-13T04:22:58Z")
> [@Pearl\_Clutching\_Provocateur](#): > > Trump derangement syndrome. > > Liberals already see every Republican as racists, hateful Neanderthals. So Trump comes along and fights back. He didn’t back down his like predecessors. Because Liberals are really bullies, they can’t handle it. Liberals built up Trump to be the personification of evil because they can’t stand opposition. They can’t stand that Americans aren’t validating their beliefs. Had they voted for Clinton, and said they couldn’t stand voting for a racist or sexist no matter what his party, then they might’ve gotten those who thought they were racists and sexists to change their mind. Instead, they voted for an open racist and sexist, and so those people will only think worse of them. And now, not being able to console themselves with the people in power, it’s only going to get worse. Think about it: when was the last time that open racists were in power? The 1960s. And that was a rather violent time. I don’t think it’ll get that bad, since it’s only the President this time, but it’s not going to be great. ---
**Author:** ![ThelmaLou](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thelmalou/32/390_2.png) [@ThelmaLou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThelmaLou)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2016, 4:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-we-really-owe-trump-a-chance/771733/36 "2016-11-13T04:39:13Z")
> [@Pearl\_Clutching\_Provocateur](#): > > You don’t understand Trump. He’s a negotiator. He knows he can’t go into a negotiation without some pretense of flexibility. It’s the Art of the Deal. > It doesn’t matter if a wall is built or not. All his supporters really want is a stop to illegal immigration. Hell, they’re already leaving and the ones headed this way are reconsidering coming. Honestly, we’re nice people. We have compassion. But things have gotten out of control. Not only with immigration but a lot of other things too. Ahhh… so you understand him. You “get” him. I see. \ Must be love. That’s the only thing that explains it (I remember the sweet delusions of love). Enjoy the honeymoon. ---
**Author:** ![HMS\_Irruncible](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hms_irruncible/32/7394_2.png) [@HMS\_Irruncible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HMS_Irruncible)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2016, 4:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-we-really-owe-trump-a-chance/771733/37 "2016-11-13T04:47:27Z")
Define “giving him a chance.” If you mean I should accept the results and support a smooth transition period, then yes The nation could face a surprise crisis on Day 1, and his administration needs to be fully prepared and organized to respond to it. Also, if by miracle he sponsors some non-bullshit legislation that might actually do some good, Democrats shouldn’t obstruct it just out of spite. That is how much of a chance he deserves, no more. Beyond that, though, I expect Democrats to do the following [ul] [li]Hardcore obstruction on any action that isn’t shaking a hand or kissing a baby[/li][li]Legal challenges to everything that may not be constitutional[/li][li]Watching his conflicts of action like a hawk, and demanding that he place his business empire into a blind trust.[/li][li]Protesting and petty name-calling[/li][li]Relentless satire and mockery[/li][li]Supporting anyone and everyone who works against him.[/li][li]Maybe a last-minute attempt for Obama to slip Merrick Garland under the wire by some constitutional loophole[/li][li]Riotous pranks like putting ex-lax in his coffee when he isn’t looking.[/li][/ul] ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2016, 5:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-we-really-owe-trump-a-chance/771733/38 "2016-11-13T05:02:57Z")
> [@Pearl\_Clutching\_Provocateur](#): > > Trump derangement syndrome. > > Liberals already see every Republican as racists, hateful Neanderthals. So Trump comes along and fights back. He didn’t back down his like predecessors. Because Liberals are really bullies, they can’t handle it. Liberals built up Trump to be the personification of evil because they can’t stand opposition. They can’t stand that Americans aren’t validating their beliefs. Republicans had already pledged to block any Hillary Supreme Court nomination for four years. Why should Democrats be any different? ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2016, 5:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-we-really-owe-trump-a-chance/771733/39 "2016-11-13T05:23:48Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > We don’t owe that fucker the time of day. I hope the protests for the inaugural are huge and continue for every single day that pervert serves as the usurper in chief. Democrats should oppose every single thing he proposes and not give him a single vote on anything. If he wants a resolution proclaiming Girl Scout Week, filibuster it. I say get rid of the filibuster. Majority rules right? > [@BobLibDem](#): > > Republicans had already pledged to block any Hillary Supreme Court nomination for four years. Why should Democrats be any different? That is indeed problematic. It’s also shameful that the Republicans wouldn’t hold a vote on Obama’s nominee. I think all nominees and the lawful nominator should be afforded that courtesy. But to answer the OP: No! You don’t owe anyone in political office support for their position. You should be working to advance YOUR position. Of course this should be done in a legal fashion. In a large republic you will need to make some compromises but if you want your back scratched you better be willing to return the favor. But you don’t owe anyone the abandonment of your principles. Blind partisan obstruction is counterproductive if your goals include improving the country instead of merely gaining power for your tribe. ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2016, 5:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-we-really-owe-trump-a-chance/771733/40 "2016-11-13T05:31:39Z")
> [@El\_Kabong](#): > > What does it even mean to say, ‘give him a chance’? Apparently, discussing any potential negatives of a Trump presidency on an anonymous message board somehow equates to ‘not giving him a chance’? > > I’m not throwing bricks through any windows, and I’m paying my taxes. That’s all the slack Trump, or any candidate of his ilk, gets from me. This. I personally don’t OWE him anything. He wanted the job, now he has to DO it. There is nothing else. Add in the fact that the same crew that wants us to work with them now also wanted to block and obstruct and arrest the opposing candidate. Some of the more vocal ones STILL aren’t satisfied and STILL want prison (but are kind of weak on the specific charges). But that’s OK, they’ll keep digging anyway. So my answer is NO. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-we-really-owe-trump-a-chance/771733.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-we-really-owe-trump-a-chance/771733.md?page=3)