# Do we really "owe" Trump a chance? **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [November 13, 2016, 12:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-we-really-owe-trump-a-chance/771733 "2016-11-13T00:19:04Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2016, 11:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-we-really-owe-trump-a-chance/771733/41 "2016-11-13T11:10:20Z")
> [@Pearl\_Clutching\_Provocateur](#): > > Liberals already see every Republican as racists, hateful Neanderthals. So Trump comes along and fights back. He didn’t back down his like predecessors. Because Liberals are really bullies, they can’t handle it. Liberals built up Trump to be the personification of evil because they can’t stand opposition. They can’t stand that Americans aren’t validating their beliefs. I’m confused — what is your point? Liberals thought Republicans were racist and hateful and Trump … did what? Are you saying that he is the shining knight who demonstrates Republicans are NOT racist and hateful? 😕 BTW, I don’t regard Trump as the “personification of evil.” For me, he is just a sociopathic showman whose publicity stunt went too far. The problem is less his policies than his callowness and incompetence. In fact, I might like his policies — he was a moderate Democrat most of his life — except that, “dancing with them that brought him,” he’ll be turning over the reins of power to the sickest most virulent right-wingers who wash up. ---
**Author:** ![jshore](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/b5e925/32.png) [@jshore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jshore)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2016, 2:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-we-really-owe-trump-a-chance/771733/42 "2016-11-13T14:03:32Z")
> [@septimus](#): > > BTW, I don’t regard Trump as the “personification of evil.” For me, he is just a sociopathic showman whose publicity stunt went too far. The problem is less his policies than his callowness and incompetence. In fact, I might like his policies — he was a moderate Democrat most of his life — except that, “dancing with them that brought him,” he’ll be turning over the reins of power to the sickest most virulent right-wingers who wash up. Well said. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2016, 3:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-we-really-owe-trump-a-chance/771733/43 "2016-11-13T15:51:54Z")
Trump is showing strong signs, starting with his victory speech, that he never really believed any of his own bullshit. Considering also that we also have no other options, yes, we _should_ give him the opportunity to keep showing us he isn’t the man the deplorables voted for. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Ace](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/6bbea6/32.png) [@Johnny\_Ace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Ace)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2016, 3:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-we-really-owe-trump-a-chance/771733/44 "2016-11-13T15:55:00Z")
Why in hell would you believe a single word that Trump says? This is the man who, in the face of protests, first claimed that it was all hired, professional protesters, then claimed that thousands in each of many major cities were ‘a few.’ Fuck Trump. Resistance is the only option against him and his soon-to-be lockstepping us back into the '50’s ilk. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2016, 4:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-we-really-owe-trump-a-chance/771733/45 "2016-11-13T16:04:02Z")
Did he ever specify what professional protesters are paid? And where they go to be hired? Asking for a friend… ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2016, 4:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-we-really-owe-trump-a-chance/771733/46 "2016-11-13T16:04:52Z")
> [@Johnny\_Ace](#): > > This is the man who, in the face of protests, first claimed that it was all hired, professional protesters, then claimed that thousands in each of many major cities were ‘a few.’ Then somebody took his Twitter away again, and posted something more respectable about free speech. He’s not really in charge. So we have to wonder who _is_. At least, under Bush 2, we knew it was Cheney. Maybe it’s going to be Ivanka? That might not be so bad. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2016, 4:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-we-really-owe-trump-a-chance/771733/47 "2016-11-13T16:05:26Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Did he ever specify what professional protesters are paid? And where they go to be hired? Asking for a friend… Street corner. “Will protest for food” ---
**Author:** ![TwiSpark](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/77aa72/32.png) [@TwiSpark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TwiSpark)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2016, 4:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-we-really-owe-trump-a-chance/771733/48 "2016-11-13T16:43:21Z")
He’s not even started the job yet, so at this stage what are his detractors trying to achieve? Keep in mind that if somehow Trump is blocked from the presidency you’ll end up with Pence. The difference between the two is that Trump mostly seems to have been acting a bigot to build up the numbers (every vote helps so appealing to racists seems pretty smart really, I sort of admire his bait-and-switch) and he’s got no experience in office. Pence is a competent and experienced bigot with actual bigoted policies. I’d be a lot more scared of Pence as an LGBT. So yes, give Trump a chance, see what he actually does. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2016, 4:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-we-really-owe-trump-a-chance/771733/49 "2016-11-13T16:44:43Z")
> [@TwiSpark](#): > > He’s not even started the job yet, so at this stage what are his detractors trying to achieve? Deterrence. Containment. Preventing his camp from taking his minority win as a comprehensive national mandate. Limiting the damage he will cause. ---
**Author:** ![ganthet](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/9de0a6/32.png) [@ganthet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ganthet)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2016, 4:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-we-really-owe-trump-a-chance/771733/50 "2016-11-13T16:58:21Z")
> [@Johnny\_Ace](#): > > This is the man who, in the face of protests, first claimed that it was all hired, professional protesters, then claimed that thousands in each of many major cities were ‘a few.’ We’ve reached peak Trump alarm fatigue, but this reaction was certainly ominous. Dictators and authoritarian strongmen, including and most notably Assad, Russia, and China, are always the first to pull the “foreign or otherwise non-legitimate agitators” card to dismiss any protest against their rule and eventually justify a crackdown. I suppose once he takes office, Trump will call any protestors paid traitors who are a fifth column working against the U.S. And as non-appealing as a President Pence might be, at least he is predictable and stable. He would likely be an extension of Dubya’s policies and would likely keep many of Obama’s foreign policies (some of which are already unpopular with liberals). He almost certainly wouldn’t build a wall against Mexico and expect them to pay for it, wouldn’t abandon or leave NATO allies hanging, wouldn’t demand Japan and South Korea pay us (they already do) or we would abandon them/leave them to get nukes, and generally wouldn’t institute a Muslim or Muslims from certain countries ban. ---
**Author:** ![nightshadea](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/7ba0ec/32.png) [@nightshadea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nightshadea)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2016, 5:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-we-really-owe-trump-a-chance/771733/51 "2016-11-13T17:29:26Z")
some one said hes a stooge for pence rove and that crowd … the people that moderate gop’ers reject and pence and committee will be making all the decisions…they think trump will do as hes told ala Reagan… ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2016, 5:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-we-really-owe-trump-a-chance/771733/52 "2016-11-13T17:41:32Z")
> [@nightshadea](#): > > …they think trump will do as hes told Told by Putin? ---
**Author:** ![Siam\_Sam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d78d45/32.png) [@Siam\_Sam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siam_Sam)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2016, 6:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-we-really-owe-trump-a-chance/771733/53 "2016-11-13T18:48:35Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > Trump is showing strong signs, starting with his victory speech, that he never really believed any of his own bullshit. I’ve always doubted Trump believed much of what he was saying, and this is part of why he’s so disgusting. He’s shown it’s perfectly okay to spew the most outrageous of lies if it gets you want you want. Is this really a value we want to uphold? Sure, all politicians lie but not to such an extreme. And half the country is okay with it including several posters on this Board! ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2016, 7:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-we-really-owe-trump-a-chance/771733/54 "2016-11-13T19:48:34Z")
In the golden days of yore, when it looked like Hillary Clinton would become the 45th President of the U.S., some Dopers argued that a Trump election would be the better option — by giving America a full dose of right-wing idiocies, the electorate would wisen up and say “Never again.” _I opposed this desperate plan_ — the hypothetical advantages of such a “Hail Mary” strategem were far outweighed by the risks of an incompetent sitting in the Oval Office. _But competency in the White House is no longer an option._ We are now stuck with “Plan B” and must make the best of it. Democratic leaders have to walk a careful narrow path. It may be good he’s appointing Deplorables to his Cabinet; we should hope they do deplorable things. The new Trumpacare has to be seen as a failure: but we don’t want thousands of new deaths from the newly uninsured. His mistakes have to be presented vividly on the news: but we don’t want the violence of anti-Trumpists to become a scapegoat for Trump’s failures. Recession is probably inevitable: it needs to be seen as his fault, not because “Democrats wanted him to fail.” NATO may fail, and Trump switch sides in the Syrian war; on such matters, any enlightened career officials left in power must tread very carefully — we don’t want those short fingers itching to try out the nuclear launch codes. I don’t know what specific advice to offer. Rational thinkers must proceed in this agenda with great cleverness and caution. We need to convince Trump supporters that their votes were a mistake, but these are the stupidest of all Americans and only the most vivid consequences will even register on their brains. ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2016, 8:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-we-really-owe-trump-a-chance/771733/55 "2016-11-13T20:37:05Z")
\*Everybody’s talkin’ bout headaches, and Fed aches, and mandates, and Klan hates, and gay cakes, and Trump steaks, and mistakes, and piss-takes, and Great Lakes, and great, let’s make it, make it great! All we are saying is give Trump a chance All we are saying is give Trump a chance\* ---
**Author:** ![Siam\_Sam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d78d45/32.png) [@Siam\_Sam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siam_Sam)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2016, 8:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-we-really-owe-trump-a-chance/771733/56 "2016-11-13T20:40:18Z")
> [@VinylTurnip](#): > > \*Everybody’s talkin’ bout headaches, and Fed aches, and mandates, and Klan hates, and gay cakes, and Trump steaks, and mistakes, and piss-takes, and Great Lakes, and great, let’s make it, make it great! > > All we are saying is give Trump a chance > All we are saying is give Trump a chance\* With very sincere apologies to John Lennon. ---
**Author:** ![Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/budget_player_cadet/32/205_2.png) [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Budget_Player_Cadet)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2016, 9:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-we-really-owe-trump-a-chance/771733/57 "2016-11-13T21:10:11Z")
> [@septimus](#): > > In the golden days of yore, when it looked like Hillary Clinton would become the 45th President of the U.S., some Dopers argued that a Trump election would be the better option — by giving America a full dose of right-wing idiocies, the electorate would wisen up and say “Never again.” _I opposed this desperate plan_ — the hypothetical advantages of such a “Hail Mary” strategem were far outweighed by the risks of an incompetent sitting in the Oval Office. > > _But competency in the White House is no longer an option._ We are now stuck with “Plan B” and must make the best of it. Democratic leaders have to walk a careful narrow path. It may be good he’s appointing Deplorables to his Cabinet; we should hope they do deplorable things. The new Trumpacare has to be seen as a failure: but we don’t want thousands of new deaths from the newly uninsured. His mistakes have to be presented vividly on the news: but we don’t want the violence of anti-Trumpists to become a scapegoat for Trump’s failures. Recession is probably inevitable: it needs to be seen as his fault, not because “Democrats wanted him to fail.” NATO may fail, and Trump switch sides in the Syrian war; on such matters, any enlightened career officials left in power must tread very carefully — we don’t want those short fingers itching to try out the nuclear launch codes. > > I don’t know what specific advice to offer. Rational thinkers must proceed in this agenda with great cleverness and caution. We need to convince Trump supporters that their votes were a mistake, but these are the stupidest of all Americans and only the most vivid consequences will even register on their brains. This is kind of the problem, isn’t it? Do you think for a second we would have let our side get away with the kind of bullshit the republicans pulled for the last 8 years? ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2016, 9:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-we-really-owe-trump-a-chance/771733/58 "2016-11-13T21:24:37Z")
> [@Siam\_Sam](#): > > With very sincere apologies to John Lennon. **Vinyl** never apologizes. ---
**Author:** ![b4rbz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/848f3c/32.png) [@b4rbz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/b4rbz)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2016, 10:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-we-really-owe-trump-a-chance/771733/59 "2016-11-13T22:27:27Z")
You absolutely should give him a chance. He put his life on the line to fix this country. His life is going to be made worse by being President. That shows me that he did this for all the right reasons. Please, don’t be so quick to judge his Presidency before it even begins. ---
**Author:** ![wolfpup](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpup/32/10618_2.png) [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2016, 10:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-we-really-owe-trump-a-chance/771733/60 "2016-11-13T22:30:16Z")
> [@ThelmaLou](#): > > My bold. > > Hyperbole is not helping your case. > > Liberals do not see Trump as the personification of evil. Quite the contrary, I don’t think he is the personification of anything. He has no core, no principles. He’s a tower of Jell-o, a puppet who is available to let an opportunistic hand slide right up his you-know-what. Can anyone name one thing that he has CONSISTENTLY stood for? No. Because there’s nothing. > > And he admits it! The day after the election, I heard him on the radio, and he said, “I said what I needed to say to get an outsider elected. That’s not who I am and not how I plan to run the country.” I actually find that encouraging, but only relative to the rock-bottom despair that the election results brought on like a cloud of doom. The idea of a pathological narcissist utterly unfit to be president who got elected on false pretenses is still preferable to one who genuinely believes the horrific racism he was spewing. And though it appears that he’s going to pander to the very worst of the far-right Republican establishment, that’s still better than sticking to his outrageous campaign bloviations and pandering to outright insanity. He appears to already be backing down on the ACA, Muslims, and The Wall. It appears that perhaps the most deplorable of the rubes who voted for him will eventually realize they were conned. Though I fear that the economic and international consequences will still be disastrous even if only, in the best possible case, because of the almost imponderable depths of his incompetence and his pathological inability to learn anything OR to listen to advice. The long-term consequences of Supreme Court appointments and I don’t want to even think about. And the moral tone that he sets for the country will be an utter disgrace. Teachers are supposed to instill in schoolkids a sense of respect for the institution of government and for their President. How they will be able to do this with a straight face and in good conscience when Trump is their president I have no idea. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-we-really-owe-trump-a-chance/771733.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-we-really-owe-trump-a-chance/771733.md?page=4)