# Do whales or elephants have any special abilities due to their large brains **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [June 7, 2016, 4:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-whales-or-elephants-have-any-special-abilities-due-to-their-large-brains/756748 "2016-06-07T16:12:07Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![snfaulkner](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snfaulkner/32/433_2.png) [@snfaulkner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/snfaulkner)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2016, 11:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-whales-or-elephants-have-any-special-abilities-due-to-their-large-brains/756748/21 "2016-06-07T23:57:14Z")
I seem to remember a documentary from the mid/late 80’s that said humpback whales had the ability to stave off destructive alien probes from deep space. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2016, 12:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-whales-or-elephants-have-any-special-abilities-due-to-their-large-brains/756748/22 "2016-06-08T00:04:05Z")
> [@snfaulkner](#): > > I seem to remember a documentary from the mid/late 80’s that said humpback whales had the ability to stave off destructive alien probes from deep space. Humor-it is a difficult concept. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Strangelove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr.strangelove/32/6613_2.png) [@Dr.Strangelove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Strangelove)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2016, 12:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-whales-or-elephants-have-any-special-abilities-due-to-their-large-brains/756748/23 "2016-06-08T00:19:57Z")
> [@Senegoid](#): > > Thus, an anthropomorphic theory that dolphins are similar to humans actually becomes the Occam’s Razor preferred theory! This view, once highly rejected, has come to be much more accepted lately. Also: The argument against anthropomorphizing animals isn’t really the most general way of formulating the problem. Really, I have to ask: how do I know that _any_ complex being has an internal existence similar to my own? I have no proof that other humans are conscious or that they experience things the way I do. In fact, I’m confident that they _don’t_ in certain particular ways–the only explanation I have for some human behaviors is that the people just don’t perceive reality in the way I do. And yet, Occam’s Razor (not to mention basic practicality) says that I should assume that similar behaviors are probably driven by similar internal experiences. I have no reason to not give other highly-developed mammals the same treatment; the existence of some exceptional cases with obvious differences isn’t an argument against this, since it would have to apply to humans as well. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2016, 12:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-whales-or-elephants-have-any-special-abilities-due-to-their-large-brains/756748/24 "2016-06-08T00:26:33Z")
> [@Quercus](#): > > Augg, that’s a horrible graph. It looks OK in the source document, but somehow the text is all in the wrong place in Wikipedia. Must’ve been done by a dolphin. ---
**Author:** ![kanicbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/5f8ce5/32.png) [@kanicbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kanicbird)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2016, 12:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-whales-or-elephants-have-any-special-abilities-due-to-their-large-brains/756748/25 "2016-06-08T00:57:58Z")
Could the potential be there for further development, maybe but the brain develops mainly to perceive its environment and make sense of it, once that task is done, what is the reason for further development? In other words the brain develops the needed functions needed for the organism, so sort of brain size independent, unless you run out of space. A larger size does not mean it is all used, just it is potential space for the primary task, not that they space gets used. ---
**Author:** ![Leo\_Bloom](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leo_bloom/32/10377_2.png) [@Leo\_Bloom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leo_Bloom)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2016, 1:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-whales-or-elephants-have-any-special-abilities-due-to-their-large-brains/756748/26 "2016-06-08T01:45:59Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > It’s the [Braine to Body Mass Ratio](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brain-to-body_mass_ratio) that seems to be important. Note where chimps and dolphins lie on the curve… The portmanteau in the ratio gives the answer immediately: thinking denizens of the briny deep are on top. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2016, 1:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-whales-or-elephants-have-any-special-abilities-due-to-their-large-brains/756748/27 "2016-06-08T01:47:30Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Must’ve been done by a dolphin. :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![Ornery\_Bob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/da6949/32.png) [@Ornery\_Bob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ornery_Bob)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2016, 2:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-whales-or-elephants-have-any-special-abilities-due-to-their-large-brains/756748/28 "2016-06-08T02:06:01Z")
_…the brain develops mainly to perceive its environment and make sense of it, once that task is done, what is the reason for further development?_ Then what is the reason for our brains to develop further? It’s likely that dolphins have large brains for the same reason we do. Culture. Culture takes brain power and [dolphins exhibit culture in lots of ways.](https://www.dolphins.org/culture) ---
**Author:** ![spamforbrains](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e274bd/32.png) [@spamforbrains](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/spamforbrains)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2016, 3:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-whales-or-elephants-have-any-special-abilities-due-to-their-large-brains/756748/29 "2016-06-08T03:33:59Z")
> [@](#): > > the brain develops mainly to perceive its environment and make sense of it, once that task is done, what is the reason for further development? memory, interacting with others, culture, and dealing with unexpected situations? Many species are being found to be much more intelligent than had been previously thought, to have “theories of mind”, to have culture, and to be able to use tools and logical reasoning. Practically all mammals and birds, and possible some other creatures such as octopi, are almost certainly self-aware and have a “theory of mind.” The oft-quoted mirror test only means that some species are highly sight-oriented and others are not. Dealing with others in social species takes a lot of mental cognition. And while running entirely on instincts works quite well in a never-changing environment, it tends to fail abruptly when anything changes and those species don’t make it, leaving the more adaptable ones with more flexible behavior. “Culture” is a great replacement for instinct-the animal learns a way of life adapted to a specific setting, but can change behaviors if thrust into a different setting. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2016, 6:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-whales-or-elephants-have-any-special-abilities-due-to-their-large-brains/756748/30 "2016-06-08T06:19:52Z")
> [@spamforbrains](#): > > Practically all mammals and birds, and possible some other creatures such as octopi, are almost certainly self-aware and have a “theory of mind.” You have a cite for that, right? And we won’t even get into the whole “octopi” thing. ---
**Author:** ![Mijin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mijin/32/9369_2.png) [@Mijin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mijin)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2016, 11:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-whales-or-elephants-have-any-special-abilities-due-to-their-large-brains/756748/31 "2016-06-08T11:16:41Z")
> [@Senegoid](#): > > There’s a philosophy of science, commonly called “Occam’s Razor”, that says something like this: > […] > Now, human intelligence is quite complex, and so any theory attempting to explain human intelligence much be quite complex. This does not actually follow from Occam’s Razor. It doesn’t say complex things must have complex explanations. > [@](#): > > Well, consider this. Dolphin behavior is not only complex, but seems highly “relatable” to a lot of people. We see a lot of high-level dolphin behavior and a lot of it seems very similar to how a person might act, sometimes in very detailed ways. Depends what we’re comparing to when we say complex and detailed. Compared to many mammals a dolphin’s behaviour seems fairly typical, not outstanding. And compared to humans of course their behaviour is quite limited. The rest of the logic seems to proceed on the basis that dolphins have human-like behaviour…I think this is pretty baseless. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2016, 1:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-whales-or-elephants-have-any-special-abilities-due-to-their-large-brains/756748/32 "2016-06-09T01:38:14Z")
I thought that Occam’s razor postulated that the most simple solution was the best. ---
**Author:** ![Mijin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mijin/32/9369_2.png) [@Mijin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mijin)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2016, 4:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-whales-or-elephants-have-any-special-abilities-due-to-their-large-brains/756748/33 "2016-06-09T04:20:24Z")
> [@carnivorousplant](#): > > I thought that Occam’s razor postulated that the most simple solution was the best. Right – among competing hypotheses, with the same explanatory power, we should prefer the one with fewer assumptions. This is somewhat different from the more common paraphrasing “The simplest explanation is usually the right one” which sounds like the same thing but I think causes people to jump to conclusions more often than it is helpful. Either way, it’s certainly not _complex things must have complex explanations_. ---
**Author:** ![TSBG](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/77aa72/32.png) [@TSBG](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TSBG)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2016, 6:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-whales-or-elephants-have-any-special-abilities-due-to-their-large-brains/756748/34 "2016-06-09T06:03:31Z")
Cetaceans evolved from land mammals, so it’s probably not so useful to compare their brain size to dinosaurs. ---
**Author:** ![Skammer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skammer/32/143_2.png) [@Skammer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skammer)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2016, 12:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-whales-or-elephants-have-any-special-abilities-due-to-their-large-brains/756748/35 "2016-06-09T12:47:54Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > It’s the [Braine to Body Mass Ratio](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brain-to-body_mass_ratio) that seems to be important. Note where chimps and dolphins lie on the curve. The graph is interesting, but the _most_ interesting thing I learned from this link is the existence of the [bony-eared assfish](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acanthonus_armatus). I can only assume it was named by a marine scientist in the eighth grade. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2016, 8:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-whales-or-elephants-have-any-special-abilities-due-to-their-large-brains/756748/36 "2016-06-09T20:29:51Z")
> [@Senegoid](#): > > One of the main reasons the Navy has been interested in training dolphins is to have them find mines and other underwater objects, which they are fabulously good at… Here’s more on the U.S. Navy’s dolphin (and sea lion) program: [United States Navy Marine Mammal Program - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Navy_Marine_Mammal_Program) ---
**Author:** ![Skammer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skammer/32/143_2.png) [@Skammer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skammer)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2016, 8:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-whales-or-elephants-have-any-special-abilities-due-to-their-large-brains/756748/37 "2016-06-09T20:49:52Z")
> [@Skammer](#): > > The graph is interesting, but the _most_ interesting thing I learned from this link is the existence of the [bony-eared assfish](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acanthonus_armatus). I can only assume it was named by a marine scientist in the eighth grade. I just realized it was probably named by the same kid who came up with “sperm whale.” ---
**Author:** ![dracoi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/90db22/32.png) [@dracoi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dracoi)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2016, 9:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-whales-or-elephants-have-any-special-abilities-due-to-their-large-brains/756748/38 "2016-06-09T21:29:00Z")
> [@kanicbird](#): > > Could the potential be there for further development, maybe but the brain develops mainly to perceive its environment and make sense of it, once that task is done, what is the reason for further development? In other words the brain develops the needed functions needed for the organism, so sort of brain size independent, unless you run out of space. A larger size does not mean it is all used, just it is potential space for the primary task, not that they space gets used. The brain doesn’t sit around doing nothing. For starters, it’s too metabolically expensive to keep around a brain that isn’t helping you survive. Additionally, you can see the brain re-purpose itself even at the individual level if you study people with brain injuries or physical disabilities like blindness. The closest thing I can think of to “unused capacity” are the developmental windows for people with abilities like sight and speech. If you can’t see or communicate during certain age ranges, you’ll never develop normal sight or speech capabilities. But, again, it’s not like there are chunks of the brain sitting around doing nothing; they’ve shrunk in size and/or been re-purposed for something else. Really, it’s not so different from muscle and bone. Use it or lose it, even at the individual level over the course of a lifetime. ---
**Author:** ![dracoi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/90db22/32.png) [@dracoi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dracoi)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2016, 9:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-whales-or-elephants-have-any-special-abilities-due-to-their-large-brains/756748/39 "2016-06-09T21:38:09Z")
> [@Skammer](#): > > The graph is interesting, but the _most_ interesting thing I learned from this link is the existence of the [bony-eared assfish](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acanthonus_armatus). I can only assume it was named by a marine scientist in the eighth grade. > **[National Geographic](https://www.nationalgeographic.com/)** > > Explore National Geographic. A world leader in geography, cartography and exploration. The original person who named it used -onus to indicate a hake fish (a relative of cod), most likely. But onus can be Greek for donkey… so there was an unknown eighth grader involved at some point, but he just came up with a common name that is a funny alternative derivative of the scientific one. ---
**Author:** ![Leo\_Bloom](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leo_bloom/32/10377_2.png) [@Leo\_Bloom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leo_Bloom)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2016, 12:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-whales-or-elephants-have-any-special-abilities-due-to-their-large-brains/756748/40 "2016-06-10T00:58:32Z")
> [@Skammer](#): > > The graph is interesting, but the _most_ interesting thing I learned from this link is the existence of the [bony-eared assfish](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acanthonus_armatus). I can only assume it was named by a marine scientist in the eighth grade. … Acanthonus armatus, the bony-eared assfish, is a bathypelagic species of cusk-eel found in tropical and sub-tropical oceans at depths of from 1,171 to 4,415 metres (3,842 to 14,485 ft). It has been found as far north as Queen Charlotte Sound off British Columbia’s coast.[1] This species grows to a length of 37.5 centimetres (14.8 in) SL. It is the only known member of its genus.[2] _It holds the record for the smallest brain-to-body weight ratio of all vertebrates._[3]Ital added. OK, logicians: assfish=-dolphin. What does the dolphin have over _it_? Then we can start comparing land-based psychologies. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-whales-or-elephants-have-any-special-abilities-due-to-their-large-brains/756748.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-whales-or-elephants-have-any-special-abilities-due-to-their-large-brains/756748.md?page=3)