# Do women ever complain about being "Nice Girls"? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [March 17, 2009, 10:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-women-ever-complain-about-being-nice-girls/489809 "2009-03-17T22:39:36Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![burundi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/3ec8ea/32.png) [@burundi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/burundi)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2009, 12:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-women-ever-complain-about-being-nice-girls/489809/21 "2009-03-18T12:52:39Z")
> [@MandaJo](#): > > The female counterpart to “women don’t like me because I am too nice” is “men don’t like me be because they are intimidated by my intelligence and/or assertive personality”. This is the one I’ve heard most often. The thing is, very few people want to date an abrasive know-it-all, regardless of gender, just like very few people want to date a doormat. ETA: Obviously, being smart doesn’t automatically make you an abrasive know-it-all, but I’ve met more than a few people who think that their higher-than-average intelligence excuses them from also being kind and considerate. ---
**Author:** ![SaharaTea](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9a140/32.png) [@SaharaTea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SaharaTea)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2009, 1:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-women-ever-complain-about-being-nice-girls/489809/22 "2009-03-18T13:37:14Z")
> [@The\_Devil\_s\_Grandmother](#): > > It’s more like being “one of the guys” or an “invisible girl” than being a \*nice \*girl, but yes, there’s a lot of guys who only seem to date Bitchy women and wonder why they are unhappy. Yes - guys who date super controlling and/or high maintenance women. In some cases you know it’s because she’s really hot, but I see a lot of guys with women who are both bitchy and unattractive. I suppose it’s because they think they can’t do any better. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2009, 1:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-women-ever-complain-about-being-nice-girls/489809/23 "2009-03-18T13:46:34Z")
> [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](#): > > 😕Where the heck did that come from? If there was a sci-fi movie called The Post From Another Thread, that would be the star. I can’t remember ever hearing a woman complain about being A Nice Girl, but in my experience it’s not uncommon for women to complain that guys are jerks and only like bitches. That’s sort of similar. Like Nice Guys, those women usually don’t know how their own behavior looks to other people, and maybe don’t understand what guys are looking for. ---
**Author:** ![Martiju](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e8c25b/32.png) [@Martiju](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martiju)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2009, 2:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-women-ever-complain-about-being-nice-girls/489809/24 "2009-03-18T14:01:27Z")
> [@Jennyrosity](#): > > I have also, in my time, dated some “Nice Guys” and they’re a very different breed. They offer immediate and Total Devotion. When, as is usually the case, the woman in question find this a bit off-putting (because if someone, within days or even hours of meeting you, offers Total Devotion without really getting to know you, it suggests not so much that they really want to be with you, rather that they just really want to be with someone), the “Nice Guy” reacts, not by understanding that perhaps they need to slow things down a bit, but with emotional blackmail. Tears, guilt, yet more outpourings of devotion - “How can you do this to me, I just want to be with you?!” So you give him another chance, because you don’t want to hurt him, and besides, he really does seem like a nice guy, he hasn’t really done anything wrong other than just try and rush things, and hey, it’s good that he’s so keen, isn’t it…? > > But by now our Nice Guy has realised his hold on you is tenuous, and reacts by becoming even more clingy. The more he does this, the more you pull away, because what you wanted was a boyfirend, not an emotionally needy limpet, and the more you pull away, the more he clings. So you try to extricate yourself, gently at first, but eventually the emotional blackmail he inflicts on you causes you to snap and to dump him in quite often a rather cruel and unusual way, because it’s started to feel like that’s the only way he’s going to get the bloody point that you don’t want to be with him anymore! This. And the point is, girls can be like that too - so yes, there is such thing as a ‘Nice Girl’. ---
**Author:** ![gigi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a587f6/32.png) [@gigi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gigi)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2009, 2:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-women-ever-complain-about-being-nice-girls/489809/25 "2009-03-18T14:47:32Z")
> [@bump](#): > > I don’t know if women complain about it, but I can definitely say that I’ve avoided dating girls who were too nice, i.e. there was no chance of getting laid until I’d committed way more effort than it would be worth. > > I can absolutely see how a girl who doesn’t realize that she puts out that sort of “getting laid will be a total drawn-out pain” vibe \*\*would think that she’s too nice \*\*and that guys only date the sluts. And according to what you’ve said, she’d be right. Right? ---
**Author:** ![MandaJo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ac91a4/32.png) [@MandaJo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MandaJo)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2009, 2:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-women-ever-complain-about-being-nice-girls/489809/26 "2009-03-18T14:55:26Z")
> [@Martiju](#): > > This. And the point is, girls can be like that too - so yes, there is such thing as a ‘Nice Girl’. But those girls don’t usually say “he left because I was too nice and he just likes to date psychobitches”. Those girls usually either think a) they weren’t devoted ENOUGH so he left OR b) they weren’t pretty enough. What makes the “nice guy” thing distinctive in my mind is that it’s about being too virtuous for the other sex to properly value. It always has this hint of condescension-- “I’m always the kinder/more devoted/more put upon partner, yet I always get dumped. I guess they want a typical guy–an asshole”. The subtext is that they are uniquely kind and sensitive for their gender. Women who have the same traits tend to _expect_ the woman to be kinder/more devoted/more put upon, so they aren’t as indignant about it. On the other hand, when a woman says “I intimidate men with my intelligence”, the subtext is “unlike most women, who either are stupid or play stupid”. This is why I think it’s the counterpoint. It’s about being mad at the other gender for not celebrating how exceptional you are. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2009, 2:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-women-ever-complain-about-being-nice-girls/489809/27 "2009-03-18T14:56:55Z")
I’d say the female equivalent of “why don’t women like nice guys?” is “why don’t men like girls who aren’t sluts?”, because the answer is the same. Women date jerks, but marry nice guys. Men date sluts, but marry nice girls. ---
**Author:** ![ZipperJJ](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zipperjj/32/211_2.png) [@ZipperJJ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZipperJJ)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2009, 3:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-women-ever-complain-about-being-nice-girls/489809/28 "2009-03-18T15:10:58Z")
I consider myself a “nice girl” and what others have said is correct. If a guy I want doesn’t want me back I do indeed assume it’s because I’m not pretty enough. I assume all men want both nice and hot, but they’re willing to give up nice for hot - or at least hotter than me (not too hard to find). And I don’t complain outloud about it, like the boys often do, because then I have to go around complaining about how not-hot I am and that would suck. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2009, 3:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-women-ever-complain-about-being-nice-girls/489809/29 "2009-03-18T15:16:14Z")
> [@Jinx](#): > > Let me teach ya’all a little something. I am sick and tired of hearing that being a Nice Guy is tabu. Passive aggressive my eye! (per a post early in this thread). Just because this world is depraved of wholesome values and women WANT to date trash doesn’t make it right. You get what you deserve. If you want a lazy husband who makes you a sports widow, hangs around at the bar, and flirts with all your girlfriends, and has no vision for the future, then DO NOT COMPLAIN! Like birds of a feather, you’re all made for each other! But, DO NOT mock the future-husband who KNOWS where he’s going in life, understands commitment, and wants a stable home to raise loving children. Sure, it’s lonely at the top of the food chain. But, considering the alternative, I will not yield to become some bar fly or couch potato. Life is too short, and somewhere along the line we’ve forgotten we’re supposed to be ABOVE the animals. So unplug yourself from your soaps and (so-called) reality TV, dump the liquor, and start living up to the obligations of being a member of the so-called HUMAN RACE!! On this note, it’s no more Mr Nice Guy from me! I’ve had it with what people have lowered themselves to becoming. So, wake up people! …and trash all those trashy Cosmo magazines that show you something you’ll life will NEVER be! It’s time to stand for something wholesome, damn it!!! 9 out of 10!! The only thing missing was a few lines to harangue that bitch, Charlene, and that jerkwad, Todd, and his goddamned yellow car. ---
**Author:** ![Silver\_Tyger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/fbc32d/32.png) [@Silver\_Tyger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Silver_Tyger)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2009, 3:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-women-ever-complain-about-being-nice-girls/489809/30 "2009-03-18T15:31:38Z")
> [@SHAKES](#): > > Ya know, If the “I’m so intelligent; men are intimidated by me” is the nice guy equivalent; then I should have a wide open market. > > I’d give up my first born for a woman like that. WHERE THE HELL ARE YOU ALL?!?!? Hi, how you doing? ---
**Author:** ![ultrafilter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/3d9bf3/32.png) [@ultrafilter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ultrafilter)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2009, 3:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-women-ever-complain-about-being-nice-girls/489809/31 "2009-03-18T15:39:27Z")
> [@Jennyrosity](#): > > I have also, in my time, dated some “Nice Guys” and they’re a very different breed. They offer immediate and Total Devotion. When, as is usually the case, the woman in question find this a bit off-putting (because if someone, within days or even hours of meeting you, offers Total Devotion without really getting to know you, it suggests not so much that they really want to be with you, rather that they just really want to be with someone), the “Nice Guy” reacts, not by understanding that perhaps they need to slow things down a bit, but with emotional blackmail. Tears, guilt, yet more outpourings of devotion - “How can you do this to me, I just want to be with you?!” So you give him another chance, because you don’t want to hurt him, and besides, he really does seem like a nice guy, he hasn’t really done anything wrong other than just try and rush things, and hey, it’s good that he’s so keen, isn’t it…? This is exactly the behavior that defines the Nice Guy, and it is by no means unique to men. The women who engage in it probably don’t complain about the same things that men are, but yes, they’re out there. ---
**Author:** ![Katriona](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/katriona/32/113_2.png) [@Katriona](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Katriona)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2009, 3:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-women-ever-complain-about-being-nice-girls/489809/32 "2009-03-18T15:57:44Z")
> [@The\_Devil\_s\_Grandmother](#): > > It’s more like being “one of the guys” or an “invisible girl” than being a \*nice \*girl, This was my problem - I was a tomboy as a kid, and because I was small and scrawny even into my teens, it was hard to get the guys to see me as a GIRL, because they were so used to seeing me as one of their pals, not a potential date. ---
**Author:** ![lobotomyboy63](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobotomyboy63/32/2900_2.png) [@lobotomyboy63](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lobotomyboy63)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2009, 4:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-women-ever-complain-about-being-nice-girls/489809/33 "2009-03-18T16:02:16Z")
Isn’t the “nice girl” thing a historic relic? Pre-sexual revolution, didn’t girls complain that boys were only out for one thing and if they didn’t put out, they’d lose the guy to the sluts who would? I haven’t heard it lately or maybe ever, but then I don’t know why women would tell me in the first place. ---
**Author:** ![MandaJo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ac91a4/32.png) [@MandaJo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MandaJo)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2009, 4:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-women-ever-complain-about-being-nice-girls/489809/34 "2009-03-18T16:06:27Z")
> [@MandaJo](#): > > But those girls don’t usually say “he left because I was too nice and he just likes to date psychobitches”. Those girls usually either think a) they weren’t devoted ENOUGH so he left OR b) they weren’t pretty enough. > > What makes the “nice guy” thing distinctive in my mind is that it’s about being too virtuous for the other sex to properly value. It always has this hint of condescension-- “I’m always the kinder/more devoted/more put upon partner, yet I always get dumped. I guess they want a typical guy–an asshole”. The subtext is that they are uniquely kind and sensitive for their gender. Women who have the same traits tend to _expect_ the woman to be kinder/more devoted/more put upon, so they aren’t as indignant about it. On the other hand, when a woman says “I intimidate men with my intelligence”, the subtext is “unlike most women, who either are stupid or play stupid”. This is why I think it’s the counterpoint. It’s about being mad at the other gender for not celebrating how exceptional you are. I just thought of another thing that fits this same “my failure is because of my specialness” thing, but that applies to both sexes: the “I’m just too picky” or “I could be in a relationship today if I were willing to settle”. This only applies to girls that don’t date at all and are looking to explain it, not girls that typically have relationships fall apart right after take off. Like the “nice guy” and the “too-smart girl”, the “picky person” is asserting that a) there’s nothing wrong with them, it’s everyone else, so they don’t need to reevaluate their own life and b) other people that are in relationships may well only be there because of their own inadequacies. ---
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2009, 4:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-women-ever-complain-about-being-nice-girls/489809/35 "2009-03-18T16:18:15Z")
> [@Mr.Miskatonic](#): > > Back away slowly…don’t make eye contact… > > Then purge with fire. No readings from the _Necronomicon_ to close the fissure through which Gol-Goroth emerged? Stranger ---
**Author:** ![tdn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/94ad74/32.png) [@tdn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tdn)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2009, 4:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-women-ever-complain-about-being-nice-girls/489809/36 "2009-03-18T16:19:30Z")
> [@Jinx](#): > > Let me teach ya’all a little something. Funny, I haven’t learned a thing from your post. Except maybe why bitter is not attractive. ---
**Author:** ![lobotomyboy63](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobotomyboy63/32/2900_2.png) [@lobotomyboy63](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lobotomyboy63)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2009, 4:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-women-ever-complain-about-being-nice-girls/489809/37 "2009-03-18T16:43:36Z")
> [@MandaJo](#): > > Like the “nice guy” and the “too-smart girl”, the “picky person” is asserting that a) there’s nothing wrong with them, it’s everyone else, so they don’t need to reevaluate their own life and b) other people that are in relationships may well only be there because of their own inadequacies. Or that they don’t want to talk about it because they haven’t figured it out themselves…😉 ---
**Author:** ![Cervaise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cervaise/32/16693_2.png) [@Cervaise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cervaise)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2009, 6:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-women-ever-complain-about-being-nice-girls/489809/38 "2009-03-18T18:27:51Z")
> [@Jennyrosity](#): > > He offers Total Devotion because he thinks that’s what women want; she offers Hot Monkey Sex because she thinks that’s what men want. And in fact in both cases they’re often right, but what they’ve missed is that we don’t want those things straight away. We want to feel we’ve earned it. Hey, if Hot Monkey Sex is on the table, I’m pickin’ it up, earned or unearned. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Sunspace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sunspace/32/1250_2.png) [@Sunspace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sunspace)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2009, 6:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-women-ever-complain-about-being-nice-girls/489809/39 "2009-03-18T18:32:49Z")
> [@SHAKES](#): > > Ya know, If the “I’m so intelligent; men are intimidated by me” is the nice guy equivalent; then I should have a wide open market. > > I’d give up my first born for a woman like that. WHERE THE HELL ARE YOU ALL?!?!? :: nods :: Smart. Is. Sexy. ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2009, 6:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-women-ever-complain-about-being-nice-girls/489809/40 "2009-03-18T18:47:17Z")
> [@Jinx](#): > > Let me teach ya’all a little something. I am sick and tired of hearing that being a Nice Guy is tabu. Passive aggressive my eye! (per a post early in this thread). Just because this world is depraved of wholesome values and women WANT to date trash doesn’t make it right. You get what you deserve. If you want a lazy husband who makes you a sports widow, hangs around at the bar, and flirts with all your girlfriends, and has no vision for the future, then DO NOT COMPLAIN! Like birds of a feather, you’re all made for each other! But, DO NOT mock the future-husband who KNOWS where he’s going in life, understands commitment, and wants a stable home to raise loving children. Sure, it’s lonely at the top of the food chain. But, considering the alternative, I will not yield to become some bar fly or couch potato. Life is too short, and somewhere along the line we’ve forgotten we’re supposed to be ABOVE the animals. So unplug yourself from your soaps and (so-called) reality TV, dump the liquor, and start living up to the obligations of being a member of the so-called HUMAN RACE!! On this note, it’s no more Mr Nice Guy from me! I’ve had it with what people have lowered themselves to becoming. So, wake up people! …and trash all those trashy Cosmo magazines that show you something you’ll life will NEVER be! It’s time to stand for something wholesome, damn it!!! You don’t sound “nice”. You sound angry and judgemental and self-important. What “food chain” is it you think you will reach the top of? And a guy isn’t allowed to watch the game on Sunday afternoon or have a beer with his friends? Look. Bottom line is, whether you are a man or a woman, if the person you like just isn’t that into you, chances are it’s because they think something about you sucks. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-women-ever-complain-about-being-nice-girls/489809.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-women-ever-complain-about-being-nice-girls/489809.md?page=3)