# Do Women Go Through a "Cute & Little" Phase? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [February 8, 2016, 9:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-women-go-through-a-cute-little-phase/745558 "2016-02-08T21:00:00Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2016, 11:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-women-go-through-a-cute-little-phase/745558/81 "2016-02-10T11:35:21Z")
> [@Skammer](#): > > I’m really sick of the trope that women who favor Sanders over Clinton are somehow misguided, naïve, or insufficiently feminist. It’s actually a form a misogyny to assume that women who support Sanders aren’t doing so for legitimate, thoughtful reasons or that women ought to support Clinton because she has a vagina. Or to assume that any woman who supports Clinton does so because both of them happen to have vaginas. Do the people making those assumptions perform all their thinking with their private parts, or something? > [@BrainGlutton](#): > > Then why is there such thing as MILF porn? Serious question. Every instance of MILF porn I’ve encountered (it’s not as if gas stations hide them, no brown bags in most of Europe), the women were 35 tops. ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2016, 12:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-women-go-through-a-cute-little-phase/745558/82 "2016-02-10T12:23:09Z")
The existence of MILF porn does not negate the fact that older women often become invisible once they reach a certain age. Unless you think the existence of chubby BBW porn means that morbid obesity is the hotness. ---
**Author:** ![even\_sven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/dfb087/32.png) [@even\_sven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/even_sven)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2016, 12:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-women-go-through-a-cute-little-phase/745558/83 "2016-02-10T12:58:46Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > No, but I never that. I said that even sexist men will grant power to women they want to fuck. Even if you think women are inferior, the fact that they have something you want will inevitably mean you cede power to them. I don’t see a lot of men handing senior positions to women because they want to fuck them. A free drink at a bar is not “power”. Being attractive and young can bring some extra attentions, mentorship, and visibility that may have a real impact on your career. But this idea that young women are being handed the keys to the kingdom by leering older men is not borne out by reality (or else the C suites would be full of 23 year old women). Most successful men aren’t literally aiming to bed the intern (however much they might fantasize about it), and those that are are smart enough to choose interns that aren’t asking for a lot in return. ---
**Author:** ![fisha](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/da6949/32.png) [@fisha](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fisha)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2016, 1:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-women-go-through-a-cute-little-phase/745558/84 "2016-02-10T13:03:48Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > Younger women have more power because more men want to fuck them. Jesus fuck. What kind of actual power? This magical vagina shtick is getting pretty lame. ---
**Author:** ![Anarcho\_Liberalist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/df705f/32.png) [@Anarcho\_Liberalist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anarcho_Liberalist)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2016, 1:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-women-go-through-a-cute-little-phase/745558/85 "2016-02-10T13:08:14Z")
> [@Nava](#): > > Every instance of MILF porn I’ve encountered (it’s not as if gas stations hide them, no brown bags in most of Europe), the women were 35 tops. Right, so ‘MILF’ is just an indication that the subject of the production to which it refers is not an 18 year old looking like 15 … ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2016, 7:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-women-go-through-a-cute-little-phase/745558/86 "2016-02-10T19:09:48Z")
> [@fisha](#): > > Who’s fault is that? Whose fault is it that attractive women have a MUCH bigger advantage over unattractive women than attractive men have over unattractive men? Mostly men but lets not forget the role that history in general plays. > [@](#): > > Ironic, no? No its just sad. Its also sad that people can’t own up to the fact that attractive women get treated much much better than unattractive women. > [@](#): > > The only one sounding bitter about attractive women is you. How am I bitter? Did I inadvertently stumble onto one of those topics that men aren’t allowed to talk about? ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2016, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-women-go-through-a-cute-little-phase/745558/87 "2016-02-10T19:15:20Z")
> [@monstro](#): > > I don’t hear women standing around the water cooler talking about how Mr. So-and-So has really let himself go or how much he needs a make-over, or how if only he did X, Y, and Z to his physical appearance, everything would go so much better in his life. Do you hear women talking about how other women have let themselves go? Do you hear women snipe at other women that are young and attractive (cute&little) > [@](#): > > But I hear guys talk about women like this all the time. Women are guilty of doing it too. When I was younger, I put up with it because I wanted to be “cool”. But now I realize how unfair it is, how damaging it is. For women, you are damned if you do and damned if you don’t. If you’re frumpy, you lose, if you are attractive you are “cute&little” > [@](#): > > Guys are given so much more leeway in the “attractive” department than women are. A guy can have a beer belly, be unshaven, and dress like a slob and as long as he’s a “helluva guy”, people won’t care too much. But a woman is held to a much higher standard. If she’s a visual hot mess, she best be the smartest, niceness, funniest visual hot mess she can possibly be, or else every negative attribute in the world will be thrown her way. There is still an attractiveness threshold for both sexes. Its just that higher levels of attractiveness have more of an effect for women than men. ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2016, 9:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-women-go-through-a-cute-little-phase/745558/88 "2016-02-10T21:04:07Z")
> [@fisha](#): > > You’re right though. People will tolerate more incompetence from young and pretty. Of both sexes. If you want to talk about ignored, be a 50 year old, overweight, bald middle manager male. This man doesn’t have any ideas. He doesn’t even have hair! ---
**Author:** ![fisha](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/da6949/32.png) [@fisha](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fisha)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2016, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-women-go-through-a-cute-little-phase/745558/89 "2016-02-10T21:15:52Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > No its just sad. Its also sad that people can’t own up to the fact that attractive women get treated much much better than unattractive women. “much, much?” So, what kind of difference are we talking here? A 2 to an 8? an 8 to a 10? A 2 to a 5? And we’re talking about actual power here, not free drinks at the bar, whistling on the street, or “acting” opportunities. In general, the more attractive either sex is (up to a point–say a strong 7,) the better treated they are, the more opportunities they have, not going to argue. Just like the more intelligent they are, or more socially adept. But it’s like you think that the 9 or 10’s live on a different planet, a planet of immeasurable wealth, opportunity, and power, not to mention hot sex. And you’re not invited. I’m just not seeing it. There aren’t an overwhelming amount of 23 year old 9 or 10’s that are running any large corporations, and I highly doubt too many small companies, either. There ARE a bunch of average looking people that are highly competent and skilled who are, though. Again, I have always said if I was gorgeous, it would have hurt my career more than helped. and I am surrounded by men. Men, men, men. And more men. Then lots more men. Plus some of their men friends. Although I possess a magical vagina™ I have never used it to further my business. So, how the hell am I in the top 5% of remodeling contractors in the US? It makes no sense on planet **Damuri Ajashi** because I am 46 years old and average looking. And why when I go to junkets, I am not surrounded by hot chicks running their own companies? The only chicks there are either wives/girlfriends (who tend to be average to average+) or the supplier/manufacturer groupies, who are wielding so much power that they have to share a hotel room, get little better than minimum wage, and deal with middle aged groping? That does not seem like they’re wielding a lot of power, or if they are, they can keep all the free drinks they can get. Is it just the _ **possibility** _ (no matter how remote) that these men might be able to play with my magical vagina™ that lets me wield all this immense power and beat out the 95% of other contractors? Because if it is, you men are all morons. Being a fuck toy is not “power.” It wasn’t when I was 20, and it isn’t now. Men losing their mind temporarily or stumbling in a conversation because of a hot chick is not power. Otherwise, my friend, hot 20 year old chicks would be overwhelmingly represented in the C suite, Congress, and the UN. And they’re not, at least the last time I checked. Sometimes I look at other cultures and think of what a waste of human resources when they deny 50% of their talent pool opportunity. Then I see crap like this on here, and realize it’s much more pervasive, even in this culture. Again, not to put too fine a point on it, Jesus fuck. ---
**Author:** ![fisha](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/da6949/32.png) [@fisha](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fisha)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2016, 9:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-women-go-through-a-cute-little-phase/745558/90 "2016-02-10T21:16:55Z")
> [@msmith537](#): > > This man doesn’t have any ideas. He doesn’t even have hair! \ ---
**Author:** ![Urbanredneck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ea5d25/32.png) [@Urbanredneck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Urbanredneck)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2016, 9:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-women-go-through-a-cute-little-phase/745558/91 "2016-02-10T21:49:29Z")
It can also hurt them in some ways because I’ve known a couple of seriously 10 beautiful women who just couldnt get accepted for their brains in fact it probably kept them from employment from either men who knew they would be a problem to other jealous women. They ended up working to tone down their good looks. ---
**Author:** ![Urbanredneck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ea5d25/32.png) [@Urbanredneck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Urbanredneck)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2016, 9:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-women-go-through-a-cute-little-phase/745558/92 "2016-02-10T21:50:41Z")
But it can go both ways because sometimes really good looking young men can cause the women at work to act kind of goofy too. ---
**Author:** ![Crazy\_Canuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crazy_canuck/32/5282_2.png) [@Crazy\_Canuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crazy_Canuck)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2016, 10:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-women-go-through-a-cute-little-phase/745558/93 "2016-02-10T22:20:53Z")
> [@fisha](#): > > I’m just not seeing it. There aren’t an overwhelming amount of 23 year old 9 or 10’s that are running any large corporations, and I highly doubt too many small companies, either. There ARE a bunch of average looking people that are highly competent and skilled who are, though. With the exception of a single insanely hot realtor I know, I’l agree with that statement. I actually agree with most of what you’ve said in this thread, but there’s one thing regarding attractiveness and power nagging at me. During my time living on the street, I never saw a female higher than a six living there. Most were far lower, often deliberately. The same was not true for men, I saw guys living on the streets who could have been at least a nine with a shower and clean clothes. The common consensus was that the prettier girls had options that the rest of us homeless people did not, and since living on the street in Canada during the winter really sucks, they took them. This led me to believe that while being cute and little does not get one to the top, it absolutely can keep you from falling all the way to the bottom. Does this count as power to you? ---
**Author:** ![Lemur866](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lemur866/32/434_2.png) [@Lemur866](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemur866)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2016, 10:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-women-go-through-a-cute-little-phase/745558/94 "2016-02-10T22:31:55Z")
Sometimes, I read threads like this and don’t know whether to laugh or cry. And just because the foibles of the human species are obviously ridiculous, that doesn’t mean I’m one to point and laugh from the outside, since my fallible human brain is subject to the same ludicrous foolishness as everyone else. It’s just easier to see in other people. But damn. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2016, 10:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-women-go-through-a-cute-little-phase/745558/95 "2016-02-10T22:33:58Z")
> [@fisha](#): > > “much, much?” > > So, what kind of difference are we talking here? … > > … it’s like you think that the 9 or 10’s live on a different planet, a planet of immeasurable wealth, opportunity, and power, not to mention hot sex. They live in an idealized world. Every door is open to them. If they have are good at something, they have every opportunity to become successful at that thing. But that’s not what I am talking about. I am talking about older women implying that younger women are just “cute&little” and that is a shitty thing for them to do. > [@](#): > > And you’re not invited. What makes you think I wasn’t invited? What very good looks is for women, money and a promising career can be for a reasonably attractive man. > [@](#): > > I’m just not seeing it. There aren’t an overwhelming amount of 23 year old 9 or 10’s that are running any large corporations, and I highly doubt too many small companies, either. There ARE a bunch of average looking people that are highly competent and skilled who are, though. Once again, this is not the point but people treat them differently. It distorts their view of the world and when their looks fade and people start to treat them like mere mortals, it can be a source of frustration and bitterness. > [@](#): > > Again, I have always said if I was gorgeous, it would have hurt my career more than helped. and I am surrounded by men. Men, men, men. And more men. Then lots more men. Plus some of their men friends. Or you would have gotten invited to every client meeting and every function and high visibility event. Once again, not the point > [@](#): > > Although I possess a magical vagina™ I have never used it to further my business. So, how the hell am I in the top 5% of remodeling contractors in the US? It makes no sense on planet **Damuri Ajashi** because I am 46 years old and average looking. And why when I go to junkets, I am not surrounded by hot chicks running their own companies? The only chicks there are either wives/girlfriends (who tend to be average to average+) or the supplier/manufacturer groupies, who are wielding so much power that they have to share a hotel room, get little better than minimum wage, and deal with middle aged groping? That does not seem like they’re wielding a lot of power, or if they are, they can keep all the free drinks they can get. I don’t think you understand what I am saying at all. I am not saying that being attractive is the sure fire way to untold riches and fame. > [@](#): > > Is it just the _ **possibility** _ (no matter how remote) that these men might be able to play with my magical vagina™ that lets me wield all this immense power and beat out the 95% of other contractors? I don’t know where you are getting all of this. > [@](#): > > Because if it is, you men are all morons. > > Being a fuck toy is not “power.” It wasn’t when I was 20, and it isn’t now. Men losing their mind temporarily or stumbling in a conversation because of a hot chick is not power. Otherwise, my friend, hot 20 year old chicks would be overwhelmingly represented in the C suite, Congress, and the UN. And they’re not, at least the last time I checked. > > Sometimes I look at other cultures and think of what a waste of human resources when they deny 50% of their talent pool opportunity. Then I see crap like this on here, and realize it’s much more pervasive, even in this culture. > > Again, not to put too fine a point on it, Jesus fuck. You don’t understand what I am saying at all, do you? ---
**Author:** ![fisha](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/da6949/32.png) [@fisha](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fisha)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2016, 10:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-women-go-through-a-cute-little-phase/745558/96 "2016-02-10T22:34:45Z")
> [@Mithrander](#): > > With the exception of a single insanely hot realtor I know, I’l agree with that statement. I actually agree with most of what you’ve said in this thread, but there’s one thing regarding attractiveness and power nagging at me. > > During my time living on the street, I never saw a female higher than a six living there. Most were far lower, often deliberately. The same was not true for men, I saw guys living on the streets who could have been at least a nine with a shower and clean clothes. The common consensus was that the prettier girls had options that the rest of us homeless people did not, and since living on the street in Canada during the winter really sucks, they took them. This led me to believe that while being cute and little does not get one to the top, it absolutely can keep you from falling all the way to the bottom. Does this count as power to you? Yes, it’s power. I’ve always said that I’ve never understood why there is ever ANY homeless women. Ever. You’ve always got something to trade. On the other hand, 90% + of men I meet can kill me. Oh, I can fight like hell, but really, they can kill me. That’s unstated power, too. These are just two basic facts of life, both are rarely in play. ---
**Author:** ![fisha](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/da6949/32.png) [@fisha](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fisha)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2016, 10:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-women-go-through-a-cute-little-phase/745558/97 "2016-02-10T22:36:16Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > You don’t understand what I am saying at all, do you? Enlighten me. ---
**Author:** ![fisha](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/da6949/32.png) [@fisha](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fisha)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2016, 10:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-women-go-through-a-cute-little-phase/745558/98 "2016-02-10T22:45:47Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > They live in an idealized world. Every door is open to them. If they have are good at something, they have every opportunity to become successful at that thing. No, no, no. Success is not a pretty face. Every door is NOT open to them. Real success is hard, really fucking hard. No matter how pretty you are, or how many opportunities. Real success is hard. That’s why very few people accomplish it. ---
**Author:** ![LC\_Strawhouse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e19adc/32.png) [@LC\_Strawhouse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LC_Strawhouse)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2016, 11:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-women-go-through-a-cute-little-phase/745558/99 "2016-02-10T23:58:05Z")
I think it would be easier to find a leprechaun than one of these magical nymphs whose very presence causes everyone around her to go apeshit and ignore their own responsibilities (what is this, a Bernardo Bertolucci film?) And even if you did find that rare person, they would not be in your workplace - they would be surrounded by their own kind in a performing arts college or something. Any “younger women” I’ve worked with were basically a random bunch of individuals like anyone else. Some were great, a few got fired, most were in between somewhere. I don’t recall any of them getting by purely on personal magnetism or whatever. ---
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2016, 10:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-women-go-through-a-cute-little-phase/745558/100 "2016-02-11T10:56:47Z")
> [@monstro](#): > > I don’t hear women standing around the water cooler talking about how Mr. So-and-So has really let himself go or how much he needs a make-over, or how if only he did X, Y, and Z to his physical appearance, everything would go so much better in his life. > > But I hear guys talk about women like this all the time. Women are guilty of doing it too. When I was younger, I put up with it because I wanted to be “cool”. But now I realize how unfair it is, how damaging it is. I sometimes hear women discussing how another woman should take care of her appearance at the workplace (and even that is rare, barring extreme cases of slopiness), but men? Frankly never. Maybe it depends on your line of work, or it’s a generational thing or something, but that experience you have isn’t universal. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-women-go-through-a-cute-little-phase/745558.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-women-go-through-a-cute-little-phase/745558.md?page=6)