# Do women really have stronger legs than men? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [June 20, 2012, 11:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-women-really-have-stronger-legs-than-men/625801 "2012-06-20T23:54:27Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2015, 4:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-women-really-have-stronger-legs-than-men/625801/41 "2015-06-27T16:45:49Z")
Comparing to lean body mass is especially silly, since lean body mass is mostly a measure of the amount of muscle a body has total. And strength in any particular body part is mostly a measure of the muscle mass in that body part. So the statement that women have more leg strength per lean body mass than men is mostly just saying that what muscle women have tends to be more in their legs than for men. Or equivalently, that women have proportionately less upper body muscle. So the same actual fact that leads to a statement about womens’ legs being strong could just as easily be restated as saying that their arms are weak. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2015, 8:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-women-really-have-stronger-legs-than-men/625801/42 "2015-06-27T20:41:17Z")
Exactly right **Chronos**. [Some actual data.](http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8477683) > [@](#): > > … The women were approximately 52% and 66% as strong as the men in the upper and lower body respectively. The men were also stronger relative to lean body mass. … The greater gender difference in upper body strength can probably be attributed to the fact that women tend to have a lower proportion of their lean tissue distributed in the upper body. Hence how it is a bit contrived, merely stating that women tend to have more of their lean tissue (and those of their strength) in their lower bodies than do men. Their lower body muscles are not stronger per unit of muscle mass and per unit body weight they are not as strong (due to greater body fat percent off-setting it). Again, records are not reflective of the typical, average, median, or mean of either gender. ---
**Author:** ![Nelson\_Pike](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/c6cbf5/32.png) [@Nelson\_Pike](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nelson_Pike)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2015, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-women-really-have-stronger-legs-than-men/625801/43 "2015-06-28T19:52:31Z")
> [@DSeid](#): > > Of all, engineers (including biomechanical engineers) often care the most about relative strength more than absolute strength. It is referred to as “specific strength” and any time a new one tops out old numbers it is [engineering news](http://www.sciencealert.com/new-metal-alloy-has-highest-strength-to-weight-ratio-of-any-metal). A thread of spider silk is easily broken but its relative strength makes it a subject of great engineering interest. It is also one of the reasons for such interest in carbon nanotubes. > > Using less material and weight to produce a desired effect is often a very big deal. > > A 140 pound man benching 280 is an impressive task; a 300 pound man benching 290 is not so much so … even though 290 is in absolute terms a larger number. It seems as though you agree with me. Perhaps I did not express myself clearly. Where exactly do you think I was being silly, and why was it silly? ---
**Author:** ![Nelson\_Pike](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/c6cbf5/32.png) [@Nelson\_Pike](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nelson_Pike)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2015, 8:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-women-really-have-stronger-legs-than-men/625801/44 "2015-06-28T20:10:52Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > Comparing to lean body mass is especially silly, since lean body mass is mostly a measure of the amount of muscle a body has total. And strength in any particular body part is mostly a measure of the muscle mass in that body part. So the statement that women have more leg strength per lean body mass than men is mostly just saying that what muscle women have tends to be more in their legs than for men. Or equivalently, that women have proportionately less upper body muscle. So the same actual fact that leads to a statement about womens’ legs being strong could just as easily be restated as saying that their arms are weak. I forget the guy’s name, but a weightlifter and orthopedic MD who ~40 years ago wrote a column for _Strength and Health_ magazine said that the correlation between muscle size and muscle strength was relatively low. That would help explain not only the differing Male-Female bodyweight coefficients, but also the drastic difference between same sex competitors in the same weight classes: an Olympic Gold medalist probably lifts 100lb more than the last-place finisher, and being in the same weight class their muscle masses could not be too far apart. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2015, 9:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-women-really-have-stronger-legs-than-men/625801/45 "2015-06-28T21:35:28Z")
My point was that _using world records_ held for the squat as telling anything about what relative strength is of most or average women’s compared to men’s legs is silly, even if the squat was pure representation of lower leg strength, which it is not. Which is not to say the conclusion is wrong, or that a metric of strength per unit bodyweight (a bodyweight coefficient) is a poor metric. Women, on average, are _relatively_ stronger in their legs than their upper bodies in comparison to men. That’s really the factoid that the meme of female leg strength originates from. Women, on average according to the data we have, at any same relative point on the normal curve for gender, at any same BMI, at any same weight, at any same relative fitness level, have relatively less of their total body weight as muscle than men so per unit body weight they are overall weaker, even when just looking at leg strength. The small increase in muscle distribution legward does not offset the lesser amount of total muscle and the greater percent of fat. Now maybe the claim could be that the _quality_ of the muscle is different, that female muscle behaves differently per unit mass or cross sectional area than does male muscle. And it turns out that _that_ claim may be _true_ … but favoring [more strength in males and faster recovery with greater fatigue resistance in females](http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15280152), but even that with the price of more body fat to carry around. Makes one guess that the gap in elite athletic performance will close fastest in distance swim events. Strength at any particular task is indeed more than muscle mass. It is type of muscle fibers and how effectively the individual motor units fiber in the exact order and intensity required for the specific task. Hence protocols for muscle hypertrophy are not exactly the same as those recommended to maximally increase strength performance (especially as defined by performance on specific lifts). ---
**Author:** ![Nelson\_Pike](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/c6cbf5/32.png) [@Nelson\_Pike](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nelson_Pike)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2015, 12:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-women-really-have-stronger-legs-than-men/625801/46 "2015-06-29T00:52:29Z")
> [@DSeid](#): > > My point was that _using world records_ held for the squat as telling anything about what relative strength is of most or average women’s compared to men’s legs is silly, You think it’s silly, I think it is a reasonable inference. > [@DSeid](#): > > even if the squat was pure representation of lower leg strength, which it is not. Close enough, and the only source of data that I know of. If you have a source for average men and women let’s see the numbers. > [@DSeid](#): > > Which is not to say the conclusion is wrong, or that a metric of strength per unit bodyweight (a bodyweight coefficient) is a poor metric. We do agree on something. > [@DSeid](#): > > Women, on average, are _relatively_ stronger in their legs than their upper bodies in comparison to men. That’s really the factoid that the meme of female leg strength originates from. Women, on average according to the data we have, at any same relative point on the normal curve for gender, at any same BMI, at any same weight, at any same relative fitness level, have relatively less of their total body weight as muscle than men so per unit body weight they are overall weaker, even when just looking at leg strength. The small increase in muscle distribution legward does not offset the lesser amount of total muscle and the greater percent of fat. I think I agree except in that elite female athletes may be an exception. > [@DSeid](#): > > Now maybe the claim could be that the _quality_ of the muscle is different, that female muscle behaves differently per unit mass or cross sectional area than does male muscle. And it turns out that _that_ claim may be _true_ … but favoring [more strength in males and faster recovery with greater fatigue resistance in females](http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15280152), but even that with the price of more body fat to carry around. Makes one guess that the gap in elite athletic performance will close fastest in distance swim events. > > Strength at any particular task is indeed more than muscle mass. It is type of muscle fibers and how effectively the individual motor units fiber [You mean “fire”?- NP] in the exact order and intensity required for the specific task. Hence protocols for muscle hypertrophy are not exactly the same as those recommended to maximally increase strength performance (especially as defined by performance on specific lifts). I think I agree. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2015, 1:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-women-really-have-stronger-legs-than-men/625801/47 "2015-06-29T01:27:20Z")
Is there any reason to believe that the n is the same … i.e. that the number of females attempting to become world class lifters is as large of a representation of the potential best as it is for males? (Or is it more likely that more of the potential male world class lifters try the sport than do females?) Is there any reason to believe that female entering the sport get the exact same level and quality of support as do males entering? Is there any _a priori_ reason to believe that the variation about the mean is the same between the two populations? (Without that knowledge there is no way to know that one population does not have a higher mean value with a narrow standard of deviation while the other has a lower mean but a much larger standard of deviation. In that case the second population, with the lower mean but much higher standard of deviation, will produce the outliers on each tail, even with the same size populations being measured.) The source I cited was of more average subjects male and female and demonstrated that females were overall less strong, had their muscle mass and strength both greater in their lower extremities. If you want a larger one here is one looking at both genders across a variety of ages (“Six hundred fifty-four subjects (346 men and 308 women, aged 20–93 yr), who were already enrolled in the Baltimore Longitudinal Study of Aging”), including some nice comparisons of peak torque at knee extensors in both concentric and eccentric activity by age per unit thigh fat-free mass. And consistent with the muscle differences referenced above, males are stronger _per unit fat-free mass_ in the legs than females are (on all measures until 70 and then females cross over for eccentric strength only). No elite female athletes are not the exception. I can get the original studies but this [Washington Post graphic](http://www.washingtonpost.com/apps/g/page/national/gender-performance-in-sports/830/) may be good enough. A typical female elite athlete will be about 16% body fat and a typical male elite athlete will be about 8%. The difference even hold true (at smaller numbers for each) for marathon runners. ---
**Author:** ![usedtobe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ec9cab/32.png) [@usedtobe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/usedtobe)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2015, 4:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-women-really-have-stronger-legs-than-men/625801/48 "2015-06-29T04:44:12Z")
TL; DR response: In what sense of the word “Strength”? Ability to perform work (in the sense of Physics, back off) or structural strength? The pelvis and (IIRC) hip joints are different - that may lead to a conclusion that the female leg can withstand greater compressive loads compared to a male leg of the same bone size. ---
**Author:** ![Nelson\_Pike](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/c6cbf5/32.png) [@Nelson\_Pike](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nelson_Pike)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2015, 8:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-women-really-have-stronger-legs-than-men/625801/49 "2015-06-29T20:34:22Z")
> [@DSeid](#): > > Is there any reason to believe that the n is the same … i.e. that the number of females attempting to become world class lifters is as large of a representation of the potential best as it is for males? (Or is it more likely that more of the potential male world class lifters try the sport than do females?) Addressed in reply #58: “the significance of sample size diminishes rapidly with increase, so the larger male pool of people who self-select for weightlifting may not provide a better basis for generalization than the admittedly smaller female pool.” > [@DSeid](#): > > Is there any reason to believe that female entering the sport get the exact same level and quality of support as do males entering? I have a hunch not, but hunches are not valid reasons… > [@DSeid](#): > > Is there any _a priori_ reason to believe that the variation about the mean is the same between the two populations? (Without that knowledge there is no way to know that one population does not have a higher mean value with a narrow standard of deviation while the other has a lower mean but a much larger standard of deviation. In that case the second population, with the lower mean but much higher standard of deviation, will produce the outliers on each tail, even with the same size populations being measured.) …and even granting the hunch provides no basis for granting that the difference is great enough to significantly affect relative performance. > [@DSeid](#): > > The source I cited was of more average subjects male and female and demonstrated that females were overall less strong, had their muscle mass and strength both greater in their lower extremities. Then it supports what I have been saying all along. > [@DSeid](#): > > If you want a larger one here is one looking at both genders across a variety of ages (“Six hundred fifty-four subjects (346 men and 308 women, aged 20–93 yr), who were already enrolled in the Baltimore Longitudinal Study of Aging”), including some nice comparisons of peak torque at knee extensors in both concentric and eccentric activity by age per unit thigh fat-free mass. And consistent with the muscle differences referenced above, males are stronger _per unit fat-free mass_ in the legs than females are (on all measures until 70 and then females cross over for eccentric strength only). Ditto. > [@DSeid](#): > > No elite female athletes are not the exception. I can get the original studies but this [Washington Post graphic](http://www.washingtonpost.com/apps/g/page/national/gender-performance-in-sports/830/) may be good enough. A typical female elite athlete will be about 16% body fat and a typical male elite athlete will be about 8%. The difference even hold true (at smaller numbers for each) for marathon runners. Thank you for the informative graphic which is largely corroborated by this cite: [Body composition of elite American athletes](http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/6650717). Note, however, that women attain a low of 10.1 % in the sprints, where they do not have to make weight. I would like to see event-specific numbers for male and female weight lifters since they do have to make weight, and the numbers for female marathoners would also be interesting. Now, we seem to agree in our opinions of the issue raised by OP: women’s legs are both relatively and absolutely weaker than men’s. I do not intend to continue this conversation unless something really provocative comes up. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2015, 9:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-women-really-have-stronger-legs-than-men/625801/50 "2015-06-29T21:58:28Z")
The only point of contention was that this is GQ not IMHO … ideally responses should actually be based on facts that address the op as directly as possible. [Bodybuilders (notably not tested for steroid use)](http://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/07315724.1990.10720362) > [@](#): > > Estimated body fat for males (6.0 +/− 1.8%) and females (9.8 +/− 1.5%) Best I can find for distance running is[a second hand source](https://books.google.com/books?id=mUmFfVXceTUC&pg=PA166&lpg=PA166&dq=body+fat+male+female+distance+runner&source=bl&ots=0o-cwmZun4&sig=fhBGRS4Dq4_2Yvs9oiVK8fU_1do&hl=en&sa=X&ei=DryRVayLDs31yASt3q3QDA&ved=0CEcQ6AEwCTgK#v=onepage&q=body%20fat%20male%20female%20distance%20runner&f=false): > [@pg 166](#): > > … average body fat percentage among elite male marathon runners of just 3.3 percent - lower than any other sport - and an average body fat percentage among female distance runners of 17.3 percent … ---
**Author:** ![mjb2](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f07891/32.png) [@mjb2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mjb2)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2016, 3:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-women-really-have-stronger-legs-than-men/625801/51 "2016-04-11T03:20:39Z")
> [@Blake](#): > > I can’t even decipher what that means. > > It seems to be saying that if you measure the leg strength of women then they are capable of lifting, say, 158% of the lean non-fat mass of the body, whereas those of men can only lift 100%. > > If that is what it is saying, it has no relevance to this thread, since it is not a claim that women have stronger legs, just that they are stronger relative to lean body mass. Since the lean body mass of women is \>25% less than that of men, a 5% difference in \*relative \*strength still means that women have far, far weaker legs. > > It is also makes damn near no sense and makes me highly skeptical about the credibility of the book. > > Of course smaller animals have relatively stronger legs. Muscle strength scales to the square, weight scales to the cube. This is why ants can carry 10x their own body weight, a mouse can carry 4x, a man can carry 1x and a horse can’t even carry 1x. Women are smaller animals than men, of course they have \*relatively \*stronger postural muscles. The point is that it isn’t anything approaching actually stronger. If it were actually stronger then women would need to be at least 25% relatively stronger, not 5%. > > Additionally it only considers lean body mass. The healthy body fat for a woman (~30%) is considered well into the overweight range for a a man (overweight at 25%). If you made the same measurements of overweight men, ie muscle strength relative to lean mass, you would discover they are also 5% stronger than men in the healthy weight range. That’s because the muscles have been conditioned to carrying around the extra weight. That doesn’t mean that overweight men are are capable of lifting more than other men, quite the opposite is true. The extra strength is just there to lift the built in weight of the fat. > > This is shoddy science pushing a feminist agenda, and does a disservice to both fields. hey I am not trying to argue with men that females have stronger legs but I was searching for an answer to my question regarding gender factor in 6 minute walk test that assigns a factor of “1” to females and “0” to males. The full formula for VO2max is: 70.161 + (0.023 × distance) - (0.276 × Weight) - (6.79 × sex) - (0.193 × resting HR) – (0.191 x age). The factor implies that female are able of walking more than men and I am not saying that I like that so I am looking for an answers. As a side not I will just add that my leg press performance was way over 100% over that of my male colleagues 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![GusNSpot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gusnspot/32/436_2.png) [@GusNSpot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GusNSpot)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2016, 4:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-women-really-have-stronger-legs-than-men/625801/52 "2016-04-11T04:45:00Z")
I have played and refereed many co-ed soccer games and , even with the same leg length, the female will win every hip check. If she is shorter than the guy, he is gonna eat dirt. Don’t know if it is strength or talent but don’t play if hip checking is being allowed. You may ask how I know… Bawahahaha ---
**Author:** ![Boozahol\_Squid\_P.I](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/d9b06d/32.png) [@Boozahol\_Squid\_P.I](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boozahol_Squid_P.I)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2016, 2:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-women-really-have-stronger-legs-than-men/625801/53 "2016-04-11T14:38:25Z")
> [@GusNSpot](#): > > I have played and refereed many co-ed soccer games and , even with the same leg length, the female will win every hip check. > If she is shorter than the guy, he is gonna eat dirt. > > Don’t know if it is strength or talent but don’t play if hip checking is being allowed. > You may ask how I know… Bawahahaha That likely has more to do with center of mass than it does leg strength. ---
**Author:** ![arcieres](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d9b06d/32.png) [@arcieres](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/arcieres)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2016, 3:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-women-really-have-stronger-legs-than-men/625801/54 "2016-06-18T03:17:34Z")
Look this link to see Weightlifting Strength Standards for men and women. > **[Weightlifting Strength Standards - Strength Level](https://strengthlevel.com/strength-standards)** > > Strength standard tables of one-rep max performance against bodyweight. Available for gym exercises including bench press, squat and deadlift. ---
**Author:** ![HMS\_Irruncible](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hms_irruncible/32/7394_2.png) [@HMS\_Irruncible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HMS_Irruncible)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2016, 3:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-women-really-have-stronger-legs-than-men/625801/55 "2016-06-18T03:29:07Z")
I’d like to see a study that compares strength in various exercises rather than just pure muscle mass. I’ve found in many cases that I can easily outperform an athletic woman on leg presses, but even an average-trained woman could pop my skull like a grape between her thighs. ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2016, 12:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-women-really-have-stronger-legs-than-men/625801/56 "2016-06-18T12:39:19Z")
Most women have more legs than the average man. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2016, 1:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-women-really-have-stronger-legs-than-men/625801/57 "2016-06-18T13:42:48Z")
Most men also have more legs than the average man. But the average number of legs is probably higher for women than for men. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2016, 2:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-women-really-have-stronger-legs-than-men/625801/58 "2016-06-18T14:05:52Z")
> [@Ambivalid](#): > > Quote: > > “Leg strength measured relative to lean body weight (leaving out the fat differences) actually shows women’s legs to be 5.8 percent stronger than men’s.” > > From [this](http://litmed.med.nyu.edu/Annotation?action=view&annid=253) book. If I’m reading this correctly it’s saying that women’s leg muscles are stronger in relation to other muscles in their body. If they were stronger then men then they would be able to lift more weight. ---
**Author:** ![Grrr](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/grrr/32/146_2.png) [@Grrr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grrr)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2016, 2:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-women-really-have-stronger-legs-than-men/625801/59 "2016-06-18T14:15:48Z")
I know at the gym, most of the leg exercise machines seem to be occupied by mostly women. So it may be a case of women tend to focus on their legs more where as men to focus on the upper body. ---
**Author:** ![DudeManBro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b9bd4f/32.png) [@DudeManBro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DudeManBro)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2016, 4:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-women-really-have-stronger-legs-than-men/625801/60 "2016-06-18T16:52:30Z")
Proportionally their legs are much stronger compared to their upper bodies, due to having much weaker arms. But they’re still much weaker on average in the lower body than males. The very best female squatters in my local gym can do about 185+ lbs for reps, one does 315+ but she’s an enhanced powerlifter… Maybe less than 4 women in total that I’ve seen at the same gym for the last 8 years. The average male can probably get to a 275-315 lbs squat in the first year with adequate training/food. Even when factoring in the differences in size, and the bias that many women have against lifting heavy, there’s really no comparison. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-women-really-have-stronger-legs-than-men/625801.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-women-really-have-stronger-legs-than-men/625801.md?page=4)