# Do you agree with Reagan about aliens? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [September 8, 2013, 2:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-agree-with-reagan-about-aliens/668326 "2013-09-08T14:35:59Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Mr.Kobayashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4af34b/32.png) [@Mr.Kobayashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Kobayashi)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2013, 2:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-agree-with-reagan-about-aliens/668326/1 "2013-09-08T14:35:59Z")
The late President Ronald Reagan made several speeches where he referred to the subjects of aliens, specifically an alien attack as seen [here](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ag44dRO8LEA) speaking at the UN in 1987. The gist is that if we became aware of some sort of alien threat to us that humanity’s differences would evaporate and we would, in Lennon’s words, become a ‘brotherhood of man’. > [@](#): > > I couldn’t help but – one point in our discussions privately with General Secretary Gorbachev – when you stop to think that we’re all God’s children, wherever we may live in the world, I couldn’t help but say to him, just think how easy his task and mine might be in these meetings that we held if suddenly there was a threat to this world from some other species, from another planet, outside in the universe. We’d forget all the little local differences that we have between our countries, and we would find out once and for all that we really are all human beings here on this Earth together. Well, I don’t suppose we can wait for some alien race to come down and threaten us, but I think that between us we can bring about that realization. [http://www.reagan.utexas.edu/archives/speeches/1984/120485a.htm](http://www.reagan.utexas.edu/archives/speeches/1984/120485a.htm) He also apparently [said that the US would aid the USSR](http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/Politics/The-Vote/2009/0424/reagan-and-gorbachev-agreed-to-fight-ufos) if it were attacked by an extra-terrestrial intelligence. Gorbachev [later said](http://www.examiner.com/article/ronald-reagan-and-russian-leader-gorbachev-promoted-a-future-ufo-alien-false-flag-invasion) “I shall not dispute the hypothesis, although I think it’s early yet to worry about such an intrusion.” The theme is used in Turtledove’s _Worldwar_ series and in _Watchmen_, but do you agree with the basic premise? If, today, we became aware of an alien threat to all humans on Earth and had to unite our efforts to combat it, would humanity manage it or would we be screwed? ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2013, 2:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-agree-with-reagan-about-aliens/668326/2 "2013-09-08T14:39:23Z")
We’d pretty clearly be screwed. ---
**Author:** ![Lumpy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lumpy/32/446_2.png) [@Lumpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lumpy)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2013, 2:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-agree-with-reagan-about-aliens/668326/3 "2013-09-08T14:52:05Z")
If the aliens had an ounce of shrewdness, they’d pick some minor power- North Korea, say- and offer them superweapons if they’d conquer the Earth for them and police it on their behalf. ---
**Author:** ![Don\_t\_Panic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/don_t_panic/32/398_2.png) [@Don\_t\_Panic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Don_t_Panic)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2013, 3:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-agree-with-reagan-about-aliens/668326/4 "2013-09-08T15:09:19Z")
> [@Mr.Kobayashi](#): > > The gist is that if we became aware of some sort of alien threat to us that humanity’s differences would evaporate and we would, in Lennon’s words, become a ‘brotherhood of man’. And then those fuckers from planet Zod get to be the Others instead. It’s a depressing thought, really, isn’t it, that the only way for humanity to set our differences aside is to have some other group to think of as different. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2013, 3:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-agree-with-reagan-about-aliens/668326/5 "2013-09-08T15:17:28Z")
Ask any surviving Chetniks how well facing an overwhelmingly superior force unites people. Could forces from “outside” bring together hostile groups in the fashion of the UK/US and USSR during WWII? Probably. But it would be no sure thing. China had a fair amount of intramural warfare during WWII. During the westward migration, the U.S. used animosity between native groups to further “pacify” hostile ones. ---
**Author:** ![Peter\_Morris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/peter_morris/32/359_2.png) [@Peter\_Morris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peter_Morris)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2013, 3:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-agree-with-reagan-about-aliens/668326/6 "2013-09-08T15:27:06Z")
> [@Mr.Kobayashi](#): > > The gist is that if we became aware of some sort of alien threat to us that humanity’s differences would evaporate and we would, in Lennon’s words, become a ‘brotherhood of man’. Yeah, sure. The same way that USA and USSR became best friends after they teamed up to fight Hitler. Oh, wait… ---
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2013, 3:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-agree-with-reagan-about-aliens/668326/7 "2013-09-08T15:36:42Z")
Reagan also said, “My fellow Americans, I’m pleased to tell you today that I’ve signed legislation that will outlaw Russia forever. We begin bombing in five minutes.” (Yes, I am aware it was a joke to test the microphone. It was also, given the tensions at the time, in incredibly poor taste, notwithstanding how it could be interpreted by the notoriously culturally unaware Russian intelligence services.) Has anything our former so esteemed and masterful chief executive had so say during his tenure as President, including the predicion that we would have a working impenetrable missile defense shield shortly after the turn of the century, been worthy of consideration? I once had a British friend ask, “What is it like having a complete moron run your country?”, to which I responded with, “How many times did you guys elect Harold Wilson again?” which shut him the hell up. And then we elected George W. Bush. Twice. Well, America, fuck yeah! There is a reason the United States is pretty comprehesively despised, and it isn’t just because of the shitty McDonald’s coffee and Stallone movies we export. What was the question again? Aliens? Like the ones in _Independence Day_ or _Rendezvous With Rama_? Doesn’t matter. We would be so technologically and strategically overpowered by any alien intelligence capable of transiting interstellar space with the intent of waging war it really wouldn’t matter much whether we march shoulder to shoulder to fight the good fight or get into a nuclear war over the mineshaft gap. We would be truly and unequivocably fucked. Unless, of course, we have Jeff Goldblum with a PowerBook and Wil Smith cracking wise. Then we are totally on top of it. Stranger ---
**Author:** ![Simplicio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c37758/32.png) [@Simplicio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Simplicio)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2013, 3:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-agree-with-reagan-about-aliens/668326/8 "2013-09-08T15:45:13Z")
[Paul Krugman](http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.com/2013/05/09/the-moral-equivalent-of-space-aliens/?_r=0) says they’ll fix the economy. Reagan says they’ll bring about world peace. Sounds great, bring on the moon-nazis! ---
**Author:** ![Try2B\_Comprehensive](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/try2b_comprehensive/32/65_2.png) [@Try2B\_Comprehensive](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Try2B_Comprehensive)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2013, 3:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-agree-with-reagan-about-aliens/668326/9 "2013-09-08T15:48:13Z")
Yeah, the Navy would be forced to share their cold-fusion devices with the public and other nations just so we’d have enough juice to power the laser weapons we’ll need to blast those space bugs back into the Oort cloud. ---
**Author:** ![SirGalahad](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/71c47a/32.png) [@SirGalahad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SirGalahad)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2013, 3:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-agree-with-reagan-about-aliens/668326/10 "2013-09-08T15:50:28Z")
I took Reagan’s quip as more of an “Architects of Fear” (Outer Limits) allusion. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2013, 4:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-agree-with-reagan-about-aliens/668326/11 "2013-09-08T16:19:52Z")
> [@Mr.Kobayashi](#): > > The theme is used in Turtledove’s _Worldwar_ series and in _Watchmen_, but do you agree with the basic premise? That actually isn’t what happens in the Worldwar series. In the Worldwar series, the Aliens end up taking over more than half the world, some places they rule (like Poland), see them as preferable to the alternatives, and after the original fighting, things settle into a four way cold war between the aliens, the US, USSR, and Nazi Germany. ---
**Author:** ![glee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b5a626/32.png) [@glee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/glee)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2013, 4:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-agree-with-reagan-about-aliens/668326/12 "2013-09-08T16:28:18Z")
Since Reagan remarks “We are all God’s children…”, presumably it would matter whether or not the aliens were Christians? ---
**Author:** ![Human\_Action](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ac91a4/32.png) [@Human\_Action](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Human_Action)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2013, 5:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-agree-with-reagan-about-aliens/668326/13 "2013-09-08T17:18:45Z")
> [@Mr.Kobayashi](#): > > If, today, we became aware of an alien threat to all humans on Earth and had to unite our efforts to combat it, would humanity manage it or would we be screwed? So long as it’s a threat to all humans, sure, for the duration of the crisis you’d see unity of purpose. It wouldn’t be perfect, of course, and it would become less so if the Earth’s forces started to win (as nations would alter their priorities from survival to ensuring their place in the post-war order). The essential condition here is that the aliens treat all humans as a nuisance to be exterminated. If they are willing to make deals with collaborators, or even plausibly pretend that they are, then you can forget about any brotherhood of man. ---
**Author:** ![Chimera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Chimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chimera)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2013, 5:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-agree-with-reagan-about-aliens/668326/14 "2013-09-08T17:43:11Z")
There are two possible reactions and that is one of them. Human history has basically been the history of Identity with groups. Everyone else is Other. The path of unifying nations has been to find common ground and ways to make everything see themselves as American/British/Italian/Etc and minimize otherness within the desired unit. Aliens will be the ultimate Other. Not as much difference between us when the Aliens are so completely…_alien_. (We better pray they’re not just Star Trek aliens who appear Human, just with different forehead ornamentation.) However, I am also aware of two examples; The Fall of Jerusalem to the Roman legions. The various Jewish rebel groups did not join together against Other. They fought each other to the bitter end and were all destroyed together. The Conquest of North America, South America, etc, etc etc. When the white man appeared, the natives didn’t join together to oppose them. Indeed they completely failed to grasp that their entire paradigm had changed. Instead of seeing themselves within the larger situation, they tried to fit the ‘alien invaders’ into their own smaller situation. They tried to make alliances to get these new people on their side against their traditional foes, which led to the ruin of all. One of my favorite bits from the \*Farscape \*series is toward the end when they make it to Earth and Crighton is giving the world a small shuttle to help Earth get advanced tech so that they might have a chance against the Scarrans when they come. The American team, led by Crighton’s father, don’t want to share with the rest of the world, seeking only an advantage for themselves against their traditional enemies (see above). Crighton tries to convince his father otherwise, but his exasperated father only proclaims “You’re not seeing the Big Picture!” Delicious irony that it is in fact Crighton’s father who is failing to see that there is an even bigger picture his son is worried about. ---
**Author:** ![Claverhouse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/13edae/32.png) [@Claverhouse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Claverhouse)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2013, 6:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-agree-with-reagan-about-aliens/668326/15 "2013-09-08T18:10:22Z")
> [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](#): > > I once had a British friend ask, “What is it like having a complete moron run your country?”, to which I responded with, “How many times did you guys elect Harold Wilson again?” which shut him the hell up. Baron Rievaulx came from a humble background to become the youngest ever Oxford Don aged 21, was a director of economics during WWII, refused to read Marx \*, broke with the truckling British tradition of sending tributary troops to fight America’s wars; and had the decency to leave office long _before_ he went wackadoodle, in marked contrast to Ronald and Lady Thatcher, who both entered that way. Moron he was not. > [@glee](#): > > Since Reagan remarks “We are all God’s children…”, presumably it would matter whether or not the aliens were Christians? An odd remark to a representative of militant state atheism. When Gorbachev returned, I expect Cardinal Suslov made him do penance and recite ten Hail Krupskayas. - This too is a sign of high intelligence. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Kobayashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4af34b/32.png) [@Mr.Kobayashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Kobayashi)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2013, 6:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-agree-with-reagan-about-aliens/668326/16 "2013-09-08T18:35:00Z")
> [@Captain\_Amazing](#): > > That actually isn’t what happens in the Worldwar series. In the Worldwar series, the Aliens end up taking over more than half the world, some places they rule (like Poland), see them as preferable to the alternatives, and after the original fighting, things settle into a four way cold war between the aliens, the US, USSR, and Nazi Germany. Although the major powers did call a truce, which is within the theme. > [@Peter\_Morris](#): > > Yeah, sure. The same way that USA and USSR became best friends after they teamed up to fight Hitler. > Oh, wait… Not after, but during the US particularly during the war propagandised the Soviets as their gallant allies against Nazism; see [Days of Glory](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Days_of_Glory_%281944_film%29) etc. Reagan was also speaking specifically within the context of the Cold War, imagining teaming up or coming to the aid of a power he called an “evil empire”. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2013, 10:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-agree-with-reagan-about-aliens/668326/17 "2013-09-08T22:48:08Z")
It would probably produce some impulse towards greater cooperation, but many groups and nations wouldn’t unify. And as a practical matter any race advanced enough to reach us could squash us like bugs if they were hostile, so it doesn’t really matter. ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2013, 11:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-agree-with-reagan-about-aliens/668326/18 "2013-09-08T23:01:18Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > It would probably produce some impulse towards greater cooperation, but many groups and nations wouldn’t unify. **And as a practical matter any race advanced enough to reach us could squash us like bugs if they were hostile, so it doesn’t really matter**. Probably, but not necessarily. The medieval Islamic world was vastly more advanced scientifically than the Europeans, but they failed to conquer them. Moreover, since we’re talking about different races. Human beings are smarter than polar bears but arrogant humans who went into a situation without knowing too much about who they’re facing would be in huge trouble. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2013, 11:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-agree-with-reagan-about-aliens/668326/19 "2013-09-08T23:02:52Z")
> [@Ibn\_Warraq](#): > > Probably, but not necessarily. > > The medieval Islamic world was vastly more advanced scientifically than the Europeans, but they failed to conquer them. > > Moreover, since we’re talking about different races. Human beings are smarter than polar bears but arrogant humans who went into a situation without knowing too much about who they’re facing would be in huge trouble. When you can get to the enemy but the enemy cannot get to you, you’ve won. ---
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2013, 11:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-agree-with-reagan-about-aliens/668326/20 "2013-09-08T23:11:26Z")
> [@Ibn\_Warraq](#): > > Probably, but not necessarily. > > The medieval Islamic world was vastly more advanced scientifically than the Europeans, but they failed to conquer them. We’re not talking about the difference between the literate but divisive Muslim emirates and the Catholic-led crusaders; we’re talking about the difference between a species which is highly challenged to even put people in the nearest major celestial body and cannot defend its own planet from incidental bombardment by natural hazardous objects (or even reliably identify them in time to warn against impact) and a species which has command of the enormous energies and technical capability to cross interstellar space. Even without assuming some kind of directed energy weapons or exotic technology, it would be child’s play for such a species to make the surface of the Earth temporarily uninhabitable, such as injecting massive quantities of dust into orbit, blocking sunlight and preventing any effective attack or countermeasures. Without the services of some magical group of superheroes, e.g. Tony Stark and Friends, we would be “utterly, hilariously outgunned” in such a situation. Stranger [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-agree-with-reagan-about-aliens/668326.md?page=2)