# Do you believe any conspiracy theories? **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [September 3, 2008, 11:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-believe-any-conspiracy-theories/461911 "2008-09-03T23:53:53Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![KneadToKnow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kneadtoknow/32/3999_2.png) [@KneadToKnow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KneadToKnow)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2008, 8:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-believe-any-conspiracy-theories/461911/21 "2008-09-04T20:21:19Z")
> [@Robot\_Arm](#): > > I believe that in the mid-70’s, the CIA, working with Howard Hughes, consturcted a ship whose purpose was to raise a soviet nuclear submarine that had sunk in the Pacific Ocean. This was all conducted under a cover story that the ship was to be mining the ocean floor for manganese nodules. Is this really a conspiracy theory? I mean, there have been books and an episode of Nova about about [Project Jennifer](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_Jennifer). ---
**Author:** ![Ethilrist](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ethilrist/32/4604_2.png) [@Ethilrist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ethilrist)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2008, 8:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-believe-any-conspiracy-theories/461911/22 "2008-09-04T20:47:53Z")
I don’t know if these count as conspiracy theories, just plain garden-variety paranoia, or a healthy grasp of reality. I believe… that spies/assassins on the level of Bourne or James Bond exist: that there are people out there tasked with doing whatever it takes to get the job done, and if they have to kill innocent people to do it, they do it. They have full support and funding from our government. that if the government wants to tap my phone, read my email, bug my house, videotape me in my bathroom, they can and will, whether they have the “right” to or not. that anything I put on the internet can be accessed by the government. Might take a lot of effort to sort out my stuff, but it’s doable. that if the government decides they need to put anybody on ice, they will. Indefinitely. Again, regardless of “rights”. that George W. Bush invaded Iraq because he wanted to, not to find WMDs, not to fight the War on Terror, not to secure our foreign oil interests. Maybe to catch Saddam because his father failed, but mostly, because he wanted a war. ---
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2008, 9:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-believe-any-conspiracy-theories/461911/23 "2008-09-04T21:16:56Z")
> [@KneadToKnow](#): > > Is this really a conspiracy theory? I mean, there have been books and an episode of Nova about about [Project Jennifer](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_Jennifer). Yeah, I know; I saw that episode of Nova. Apart from the endless squabbling over whether it’s true, it fits the other requirements for a conspiracy theory. I think it has a legitimate place in the meta-CT debate. A branch of the government? Check. Conspiring with a reclusive billionaire? Check. Cold war implications? Check. An elaborate cover story? Check. (“Manganese nodules?” That’s fucking brilliant.) I’m surprised that proponents of other CTs don’t cite this as an example of the lengths that a group would go to to accomplish their ends. But it’s also an example of how hard it is to keep a secret. Everybody involved in this had reason to keep it under wraps, and they couldn’t. The New York Times was on the story even before the ship sailed. ---
**Author:** ![Cisco](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ccd318/32.png) [@Cisco](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cisco)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2008, 10:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-believe-any-conspiracy-theories/461911/24 "2008-09-04T22:28:54Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > One conspiracy theory I consider plausible is that the Bush Administration, at least at the top, knew that 9-11 ( or something of the kind ) was coming and deliberately did nothing. My reasons for considering it plausible : > > Motive : The neocons SAID they needed another Pearl Harbor to get what they wanted, and they got it when their guy was in office. > > Ruthlessness : These are people who care nothing for anyone but themselves; killing thousands of people for their own profit and advancement hasn’t bothered them elsewhere; why not here too ? > > They Were Warned : From the the warnings of the outgoing Clinton Administration onward, they were warned repeatedly that something was coming. Ashcroft refused to use commercial aircraft; the G-8 summit had anti-aircraft defenses. > > Achievability : Unlike the idea that it was American agents in the planes or American missiles/explosives that brought down the towers, this doesn’t require a large number of people who might talk to go forth and do things they might be caught at. It requires a few people at the top to have deliberately done nothing; much easier to pull off without the truth leaking out. > > Plausible Deniability : Assuming they did what I’m suggesting, the worst that could actually be proven is incompetence, unless someone breaks down and admits it. > > No, I don’t KNOW that this is what happened; and for the last reason it’s highly unlikely that we ever will. But I consider it more likely than not. The problem with this is: how would they have found out about it? If you say they knew _something_ was coming, you’re probably right. But if you say they knew _9/11_, in particular, was coming, you’re living in fantasy land for a number of practical reasons. ---
**Author:** ![jjimm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba8739/32.png) [@jjimm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jjimm)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2008, 11:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-believe-any-conspiracy-theories/461911/25 "2008-09-05T11:39:46Z")
A serious one: the “suicide” of David Kelly was utterly suspicious. Some pills and a single half-hearted wrist slash, allegedly with [no arterial blood apparent](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Kelly_(weapons_expert)#Concerns_regarding_official_account), minutes after sending positive, forward-looking emails. [The Feather Men](http://www.amazon.co.uk/Feather-Men-Sir-Ranulph-Fiennes/dp/0747510490) by Ranulph Fiennes lists a large number of “innocent” methods of assassination by the SAS, and it looks a bit like one of them. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2008, 12:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-believe-any-conspiracy-theories/461911/26 "2008-09-05T12:03:32Z")
> [@Cisco](#): > > The problem with this is: how would they have found out about it? If you say they knew _something_ was coming, you’re probably right. But if you say they knew _9/11_, in particular, was coming, you’re living in fantasy land for a number of practical reasons. I expect they found out by being told by the various people who tried to warn them, as I mentioned, and simply sat on the information. I have no way of knowing how detailed that knowledge was, and it really doesn’t matter; it’s not like it mattered to them what happened as long as it was a big, spectacular attack they could use. The new Pearl Harbor they wanted. ---
**Author:** ![OtakuLoki](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/ac8455/32.png) [@OtakuLoki](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OtakuLoki)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2008, 12:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-believe-any-conspiracy-theories/461911/27 "2008-09-05T12:49:38Z")
> [@Robot\_Arm](#): > > I believe that in the mid-70’s, the CIA, working with Howard Hughes, consturcted a ship whose purpose was to raise a soviet nuclear submarine that had sunk in the Pacific Ocean. This was all conducted under a cover story that the ship was to be mining the ocean floor for manganese nodules. [minor nitpick] The K-129 was not a nuclear submarine - it was a diesel electric ballistic missile submarine. [/minor nitpick] I agree that this incident is worth mentioning in any discussion of CTs. And goes a long way to raising the bar for accepting that other large-scale conspiracies could be kept secret. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2008, 1:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-believe-any-conspiracy-theories/461911/28 "2008-09-05T13:00:10Z")
A major corporation has developed software that is now embedded in every computer model sold. When unsuspecting users post on message boards, the software activates a scanning mode in their monitor and a CRT scan is taken of their body. The data is forwarded to a central monitoring bank and kept on file. I revealed this recently on another message board where a conspiracy theorist was making a real pain in the ass of himself, and for some reason we don’t hear from him very much now. ---
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2008, 1:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-believe-any-conspiracy-theories/461911/29 "2008-09-05T13:11:24Z")
> [@OtakuLoki](#): > > The K-129 was not a nuclear submarine - it was a diesel electric ballistic missile submarine. A diesel-electric missile boat? I didn’t know there was such a thing. I learn something new every day. Thanks. ---
**Author:** ![Max\_Torque](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e9bcb4/32.png) [@Max\_Torque](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Max_Torque)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2008, 3:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-believe-any-conspiracy-theories/461911/30 "2008-09-05T15:36:55Z")
> [@Ethilrist](#): > > I believe… > > that spies/assassins on the level of Bourne or James Bond exist: that there are people out there tasked with doing whatever it takes to get the job done, and if they have to kill innocent people to do it, they do it. They have full support and funding from our government. I know that they exist for a fact because (drum roll) I’ve seen them. This was years ago, at a government job at a secure facility, and a former foreign agent came to give a lecture on secrecy. Basically, a talk about how to avoid accidentally disclosing information to spies. Listening to him was pretty scary, just because you knew what he was. I think what bothered me the most about him was how _ordinary_ he looked. Your eyes just kinda slid right off him; he didn’t stand out or make a memorable impression in any way. ---
**Author:** ![Cisco](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ccd318/32.png) [@Cisco](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cisco)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2008, 4:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-believe-any-conspiracy-theories/461911/31 "2008-09-05T16:10:45Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > I expect they found out by being told by the various people who tried to warn them Who are these people and why haven’t they come forward? Again, they were told, “hey, bin Laden/al Qaeda is pissed and probably planning a major attack as we speak - possibly utilizing airplanes in some way”, but if you think they got information more specific than that, you know something the rest of us don’t know. Do tell. ---
**Author:** ![KRC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/45deac/32.png) [@KRC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KRC)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2008, 5:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-believe-any-conspiracy-theories/461911/32 "2008-09-05T17:44:44Z")
My pet conspiracy theory is that Osama bin Laden is alive and well and our government knows exactly where he is, but at this point he’s worth more to us alive than dead. When for whatever reason this situation changes he will be dead before he knew what hit him. ---
**Author:** ![Fugazi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/f08c70/32.png) [@Fugazi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fugazi)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2008, 6:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-believe-any-conspiracy-theories/461911/33 "2008-09-05T18:18:55Z")
I made this one up totally by myself, and have zero evidence but it explains things. I may be the only one who believes it. If so, I’d appreciate if you all spread it around as truth. I think the big oil companies are in cahoots with the government to intentionally mis-time traffic lights to make us burn extra gas. How else do you explain sitting at a major intersection at 9:30 pm, no cross traffic triggered the light, yet your sitting there. Also, when it finally turns green, the empty on coming lanes get the green and an arrow. The lane I’m in that also has 6 or 7 other cars waiting has to wait an extra 30 seconds. I suppose it could be massive incompetence too. ---
**Author:** ![Cisco](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ccd318/32.png) [@Cisco](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cisco)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2008, 7:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-believe-any-conspiracy-theories/461911/34 "2008-09-05T19:45:11Z")
> [@KRC](#): > > My pet conspiracy theory is that Osama bin Laden is alive and well and our government knows exactly where he is, but at this point he’s worth more to us alive than dead. When for whatever reason this situation changes he will be dead before he knew what hit him. I have a similar pet, but I can’t prove it. I don’t think they know exactly where he is, but I think they are capable of finding him. Finding him, though, would A) make him a martyr if they kill him, B) ignite terrorist attacks / hostage situations if they jail him, C) take the wind out of the sails of their war on terror. It’s hard to imagine why else Bush went from “WE. WILL. HUNT. HIM. DOWN!” to “we don’t care where he is” so quickly. The real rub here is that staying one step behind him might be the smartest thing to do. Keep enough heat on him that he’s effectively incapacitated but stay far enough back to prevent A) or B). ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2008, 7:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-believe-any-conspiracy-theories/461911/35 "2008-09-05T19:50:55Z")
The closest thing I have to a conspiracy theory is that North Korea acting out is possibly more than just allowed by China, but even used strategically and manipulated to occur by some of the Chinese leaders. No idea one way or the other, but it seems plausible. ---
**Author:** ![Icarus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/icarus/32/72_2.png) [@Icarus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Icarus)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2008, 8:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-believe-any-conspiracy-theories/461911/36 "2008-09-05T20:10:20Z")
> [@KRC](#): > > My pet conspiracy theory is that Osama bin Laden is alive and well and our government knows exactly where he is, but at this point he’s worth more to us alive than dead. When for whatever reason this situation changes he will be dead before he knew what hit him. CT - The reason that bin Laden has not been ‘found’ goes back to family relations. GW Bush was partners with Osama bin Laden’s half-brother in his early oil ventures. The Bush family and the bin Laden family have a lot of business relationships in their background. It would be considered bad for family relationships if GW were to actually hunt down Osama and kill him. ---
**Author:** ![Moriarty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/moriarty/32/49_2.png) [@Moriarty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Moriarty)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2008, 2:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-believe-any-conspiracy-theories/461911/37 "2008-09-06T02:21:38Z")
I, too, believe that the Bush Administration knew an attack was imminent (i.e. Presidential Daily Briefing entitled “Bin Laden determined to attack in US”, Bush spent basically all of August, 2001, out of DC), although I don’t think they knew the day, or the method. I also think the war in Afghanistan was [planned](http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/1550366.stm) prior to 9/11, and the war in Iraq was also in the contemplation stage before 9/11. I have questions about the death of Martin Luther King, largely after having read [An Act of State](http://www.versobooks.com/books/nopqrs/nopq-titles/pepper_w_act_state.shtml), by William Pepper, who has the support of the King family. Having said that, I do think the Lee Harvey Oswald acted alone, and encourage those with doubts about that murder to check out [this](http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/home.htm) website. ---
**Author:** ![Linty\_Fresh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/c5a1d2/32.png) [@Linty\_Fresh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Linty_Fresh)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2008, 3:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-believe-any-conspiracy-theories/461911/38 "2008-09-06T15:46:51Z")
> [@Sage\_Rat](#): > > The closest thing I have to a conspiracy theory is that North Korea acting out is possibly more than just allowed by China, but even used strategically and manipulated to occur by some of the Chinese leaders. > > No idea one way or the other, but it seems plausible. I would guess that this is assumed to be true by most of the analysts of that area. China and the Korean peninsula go _wayyy_ back. I don’t think Bush or any of his cabinet knew about 9/11 beforehand, and if they had, they couldn’t have done much to keep the FBI and CIA from thwarting it, at least not without being outed in the media. 9/11 happened in part because of communication problems _between_ the Bureau and the Agency. They refused to share vital information with each other until it was too late. That’s the real tragedy about the attacks. It all came down to bureaucrats’ egos and red tape. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2008, 7:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-believe-any-conspiracy-theories/461911/39 "2008-09-06T19:43:09Z")
> [@Cisco](#): > > Who are these people and why haven’t they come forward? > > Again, they were told, “hey, bin Laden/al Qaeda is pissed and probably planning a major attack as we speak - possibly utilizing airplanes in some way”, but if you think they got information more specific than that, you know something the rest of us don’t know. Do tell. Isn’t that information specific enough ? As I said, they had no reason to care about specifics; only that an attack was coming. > [@Cisco](#): > > I have a similar pet, but I can’t prove it. I don’t think they know exactly where he is, but I think they are capable of finding him. Finding him, though, would A) make him a martyr if they kill him, B) ignite terrorist attacks / hostage situations if they jail him, C) take the wind out of the sails of their war on terror. > > It’s hard to imagine why else Bush went from “WE. WILL. HUNT. HIM. DOWN!” to “we don’t care where he is” so quickly. It’s not hard at all. He was never interested in catching him in the first place, or any other terrorist. > [@Linty\_Fresh](#): > > I don’t think Bush or any of his cabinet knew about 9/11 beforehand, and if they had, they couldn’t have done much to keep the FBI and CIA from thwarting it, at least not without being outed in the media. 9/11 happened in part because of communication problems _between_ the Bureau and the Agency. They refused to share vital information with each other until it was too late. That’s the real tragedy about the attacks. It all came down to bureaucrats’ egos and red tape. They HAVE been outed in the media. It’s just that it gets attributed to incompetence instead of malice ( as you just did ). Both because they really ARE incompetent, and because admitting that conspiracies exist has become such a taboo. Short of them publicly confessing ( and maybe even then ), most people will refuse to believe that it’s even possible, just because it’s labeled a conspiracy. ---
**Author:** ![Linty\_Fresh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/c5a1d2/32.png) [@Linty\_Fresh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Linty_Fresh)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2008, 9:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-believe-any-conspiracy-theories/461911/40 "2008-09-06T21:53:37Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > They HAVE been outed in the media. It’s just that it gets attributed to incompetence instead of malice ( as you just did ). Both because they really ARE incompetent, and because admitting that conspiracies exist has become such a taboo. Soooooo . . . they’re incompetent, but they managed to be canny enough to make all the supposed briefings disappear while making it appear to be the various agencies’ fault? They’re incompetent, but they’re supposed to have been able to learn about the overall 9/11 plan before it happened? What’s wrong with _this_ picture? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-believe-any-conspiracy-theories/461911.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-believe-any-conspiracy-theories/461911.md?page=3)