# Do you believe Batman defeated Superman in single hand-to-hand combat? (Spoilers!) **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [November 15, 2009, 11:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-believe-batman-defeated-superman-in-single-hand-to-hand-combat-spoilers/517705 "2009-11-15T23:47:41Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 3\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2009, 12:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-believe-batman-defeated-superman-in-single-hand-to-hand-combat-spoilers/517705/21 "2009-11-16T12:51:51Z")
> [@drastic\_quench](#): > > IIRC, Batman has his “heart attack” because of a drug he ingested, and doesn’t have precise control of when it kicks in. His internal dialogue says something like not yet, not yet. So I don’t think he triggers the heart attack because of any particular turns in the fight. He planned (of course) that heart attack drug would be his exit strategy – remember it wears off too quickly at his fake funeral. IMHO, that just takes it from the specific to the general. Why did he need to throw the fight _ **at all?** _ Answering that question in a larger sense explains why he slumped to the ground when that sniper had lined up a kill shot: something like that sniper was going to come into play at some point; as it happens, it was the sniper, right then. Take away the sniper (and the other soldiers) and Green Arrow (and Robin, in the souped-up Batmobile) and it plays out like Miller wrote earlier in DKR: Superman demonstrates that he could kill the guy half-a-dozen times from telescopic range, burning a fiery letter into the ground at Bruce’s feet before Bruce can do anything – and then doing it again, and _ **again,** _ and again and again and again, at which point Bruce (a) still can’t see him way the heck up there, but (b) can start planning for the fight he’s going to throw. ---
**Author:** ![Rhythmdvl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/85f322/32.png) [@Rhythmdvl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rhythmdvl)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2009, 1:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-believe-batman-defeated-superman-in-single-hand-to-hand-combat-spoilers/517705/22 "2009-11-16T13:27:07Z")
> [@astro](#): > > [Here’s the action](http://img687.imageshack.us/g/batmantdkr4199thedarkkn.jpg/) Thanks, that explains a lot. So someone shoots an arrow full of Kryptonite, Superman pauses to [fapp](http://img32.imageshack.us/img32/2949/batmantdkr4193thedarkkn.jpg) for a spell, and Batman gets in a couple good hits before taking a dive. If I’m reading it right, then anyone with access to Kryptonite could claim to have defeated Superman under certain circumstances. I thought the whole B’man beat S’man thing was about B’man’s badassery. I don’t know. How many plot-lines over time have had Superman up against the Kryptonite ropes? Do they all count as defeats? I don’t get it. I don’t get it especially as B’man tapped out … even if he totally kicked Super the man square in the nuts, he wasn’t the last man standing. ---
**Author:** ![Scumpup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ce73a5/32.png) [@Scumpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scumpup)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2009, 1:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-believe-batman-defeated-superman-in-single-hand-to-hand-combat-spoilers/517705/23 "2009-11-16T13:41:57Z")
Let’s see…the fight is basically “a rich kid with issues” v. a god. Superman’s powers and invulnerability are such in that continuity that there is no other description of him that fits. The fight actually reminds me of some of the stories from Ancient Greek mythology. Batman is a hero more in the mold of Odysseus than Hercules. He overcomes his enemies through a combination of cunning, deceit, and physical prowess. Another way of looking at it is this: Mike Tyson at his peak is going to fight a four year old child. The child wins by first having another toddler throw household ammonia in Tyson’s eyes and then beating him with a baseball bat. Did the child “cheat?” [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-believe-batman-defeated-superman-in-single-hand-to-hand-combat-spoilers/517705.md?page=1)