[QUOTE=Pazu]
At this point, I defy anyone to find a reason for this thread.
[/QUOTE]
Hey, maybe that’s what Liberal’s performance art exhibit here means. Of course, he’s doing it in at least [post=8854269]one other thread[/post] so there’s gotta be a more meta-statement going on. Come on Dopers! If we stare at his diatribes long enough we are bound to read his mind!
[QUOTE=Pazu]
At this point, I defy anyone to find a reason for this thread.
[/QUOTE]
I continue to be fascinated by this thread… perhaps it even merits moving to Great Debates rather than the pit. Nonetheless, my reply here will be tame, and I’m sure indefensible…
[QUOTE=Voyager]
How can anyone not religious believe that everything happens for a reason? Who supplies the reason, and causes the things to happen, if not god?
[/QUOTE]
In my original foray into this thread, I made a distinction between purpose and reason. I proposed an alternative view that everything happens for a purpose, the purpose of which is to remind people to think twice about what happens in our world, to look for explanations that could in fact guide you to be the better person that you want to be. To me, this distinction is critical, and, I believe, explains why I can think this without being religious.
Purpose, in and of itself, to me, implies only an explanation. In this context, the explanation does not need to be logical, it can’t, and doesn’t need to be proven, there is no need and indeed no way, to establish the immutable truth of said explanation. Bullshit escapism, as Contrapuntal points out? Maybe, but only if you believe that everything in the world requires logical proof. Certainly it does in matters scientific, mathematical, medical, and legal. But, purpose, again in my view, can be defined without those restrictions, especially if that explanation (purpose) for a particular event, as defined by the individual, provides them with some additional awareness of the world around them. If, the attribution of a particular purpose to an event allows someone to move on, live more fully, survive horrendous circumstances, empathize with those who suffer, and contribute more deeply to the society in which they live, then I am all for it. For those who are the victims, the crack babies, the orphans of Iraq, the folks who died on the bridge in MN, IMHO there is no explanation for their fate (this is where I depart most significantly from my religious brethren – I, and no one else, could even presume to provide an explanation to those who are the direct victims, and I don’t believe that anything, God or otherwise, causes these things to happen - they just do.) However, if those victims who remain capable of thought in spite of what they have suffered choose to find purpose in what happened to them (religious “reason” or otherwise), again, I would celebrate that if it helped them to negotiate the rest of their time of this world in a better way.
[QUOTE=cochrane]
As much as “My Name Is Earl” can give some the warm fuzzies, there’s no karma.
[/QUOTE]
Whatayatalk? There absolutely is bad karma. Oodles of it. I’ve just never encountered the good kind.
[QUOTE=OslerKnew]
In my original foray into this thread, I made a distinction between purpose and reason. I proposed an alternative view that everything happens for a purpose, the purpose of which is to remind people to think twice about what happens in our world, to look for explanations that could in fact guide you to be the better person that you want to be. To me, this distinction is critical, and, I believe, explains why I can think this without being religious.
Purpose, in and of itself, to me, implies only an explanation. In this context, the explanation does not need to be logical, it can’t, and doesn’t need to be proven, there is no need and indeed no way, to establish the immutable truth of said explanation. Bullshit escapism, as Contrapuntal points out? Maybe, but only if you believe that everything in the world requires logical proof. Certainly it does in matters scientific, mathematical, medical, and legal. But, purpose, again in my view, can be defined without those restrictions, especially if that explanation (purpose) for a particular event, as defined by the individual, provides them with some additional awareness of the world around them. If, the attribution of a particular purpose to an event allows someone to move on, live more fully, survive horrendous circumstances, empathize with those who suffer, and contribute more deeply to the society in which they live, then I am all for it.
[/QUOTE]
There are three ways of defining “reason”. The first, a cause, is pretty clear, at least at the macro level. For example, the plane crashed because of a defect in the wing.
The second, which is what I think of when someone says that there is a reason, is that everything happens according to God’s plan, for a certain definition of god. That’s what I find despicable, since a benevolent god can do better, and many of us are here due to the side effects of extreme evil.
The third is a purpose defined post hoc by survivors of the experience. That could be thinking the experience is useful as a teaching aid, or that it had useful side effects. But saying the experience taught me something is different from saying the experience happened because it would teach me something.
I’m not sure where your explanation falls into this schema. It seems a bit like people trying to transform something of the third class into the second. I think one of the big differences between atheists and theists is that many theists can’t accept that things happen for no reason (def 2) while atheists can. That’s why I find the idea of something happening because it would teach inherently religious, though the god might be of the Erasmus variety as much as the Christian one.
[QUOTE=CarnalK]
Come on Dopers! If we stare at his diatribes long enough we are bound to read his mind!
[/QUOTE]
The King of Snark calls upon those he reviles. Return to your den where you provide sanctuary for banned members. Where you host anonymous cowards with grudges. Where you make lists of Dopers whose spirits you wish to crush. Get busy adding this new chapter to your Liberal profile. Gut me. Examine my entrails. Sum me up with razor blade words. Your mouth oozes with my blood. Savor it.
You can dance, you can jive, having the time of your life
Ooooh, see that man, watch that scene, diggin’ the drama queen
Great, so now it looks like Liberal is going to be the frontman for an emo band.
[QUOTE=CarnalK]
Come on Dopers! If we stare at his diatribes long enough we are bound to read his mind!
[/QUOTE]
If those are glimpses into his mind, I think I’ve read enough for one lifetime.