# Do you believe Glenn Beck has any liability in the Poplawski murders? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [April 8, 2009, 11:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-believe-glenn-beck-has-any-liability-in-the-poplawski-murders/492450 "2009-04-08T23:28:34Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/9fc348/32.png) [@The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Flying_Dutchman)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2009, 12:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-believe-glenn-beck-has-any-liability-in-the-poplawski-murders/492450/21 "2009-04-09T12:09:50Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > My bedrock moral principle is this: > > You share responsibility for the foreseeable outcomes of your decisions. > > I won’t bother defining each word here, but “foreseeable” is an important one. I’d argue that it’s foreseeable that if you rant daily about how the government is like Nazis, and you have an audience numbering in the hundreds of thousands or even millions, your words might push someone over the edge. This incident was foreseeable. > > I’ll also mention “share.” Responsibility isn’t like a stick of butter, where if you get most of it, I only get a little pat of butter. If the sentence for a robbery is ten years in prison, and two people rob a store together, you don’t sentence each of them to five years. If Beck has some responsibility for this incident, it does not remotely lessen Poplawski’s responsibility. > > So yes: I think Beck is morally responsible for his incendiary rhetoric. And no: I don’t think that civil or criminal law should address this situation. Wow, I’m so surprised to read that there are those who want to saddle Beck with some blame for the Popblowski shootings. Does Beck hate cops ? Are there no murderers who like Obama ? Brings to mind all those non violent civil rights leaders leading protests that weren’t always non violent . As far as the “incendiary rhetoric” goes, I believe that it is only a very few conservative nutballs that are affected, but there are many lefties who become emotionally traumatized . Get over it . ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2009, 12:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-believe-glenn-beck-has-any-liability-in-the-poplawski-murders/492450/22 "2009-04-09T12:19:16Z")
If Beck rants about how we should be fearful of the Obama administration, is he responsible for an increase in his audience’s fear of the Obama administration? ---
**Author:** ![Rand\_Rover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/db5fbb/32.png) [@Rand\_Rover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rand_Rover)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2009, 12:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-believe-glenn-beck-has-any-liability-in-the-poplawski-murders/492450/23 "2009-04-09T12:41:34Z")
> [@Sampiro](#): > > Do you believe Beck should be held MORALLY accountable in part for the actions of a clearly insane fan? > . What does it mean to hold someone morally accountable for the actions of someone else? I think it means absolutely nothing. Therefore, the debate about whether he should be held morally accountable means absolutely nothing. It is like the proverbial debate over how many angels fit on the head of a pin. Flipping a coin to decide the outcome has as much content and as much consequence as a debate on the subject. I fully concede that this post may be a threadshit, but I want people to start thinking about what terms like “morally accountable” really mean, and I think it’s better to discuss it in context instead of in a separate thread in the abstract. ---
**Author:** ![haymarketmartyr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/35a633/32.png) [@haymarketmartyr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/haymarketmartyr)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2009, 1:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-believe-glenn-beck-has-any-liability-in-the-poplawski-murders/492450/24 "2009-04-09T13:39:40Z")
fromPanache45 > [@](#): > > Glenn Beck is indirectly responsible, in the same sense that a homophobic fundamentalist preacher is indirectly responsible for anti-gay violence. It’s a form of rabble-rousing, and can have deadly consequences. I’m not removing the blame from the person who committed the crime, I’m simply pointing out that hate-speech targets an audience of people who are receptive to this sort of pursuasion, and the people who preach it have to bear some moral, if not legal, responsibility. That is a pretty good summary of my feelings as well. People are hired to be on TV because the sponsors believe that other people listen to them and pay attention. They would not put Glen Beck on the tube if he did not have people who listen to him and respect his opinions. The fact that some of those persons are a few sandwiches short of a full picnic probably comes with the territory. And the network who employs him is well aware of that. Is there some unwritten rule that male gasbags on the Right must be over bloated Pillsbury doughboy types who make you want to bitchslap them when they fail so miserably at being sarcastic? Glen is probably worse at attempting to being sarcastically funny than even Limbaugh is. He is the typical dorky kid in class who weighed more than most other boys but still got his ass kicked by everyone just because he was a dork. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2009, 1:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-believe-glenn-beck-has-any-liability-in-the-poplawski-murders/492450/25 "2009-04-09T13:41:43Z")
> [@Rand\_Rover](#): > > I fully concede that this post may be a threadshit I think it’s a fair point, actually; this idea gets tossed around a lot and usually isn’t defined. For my part, I think Beck is a lunatic, and if he’s not, he’s a jackass doing a very good impression of one in order to scare up ratings. But blaming him and his ilk for this is not much different than the prudes who have blamed earlier school shootings on Marilyn Manson and violent video games. ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Tildrum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e95f7d/32.png) [@Tom\_Tildrum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Tildrum)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2009, 1:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-believe-glenn-beck-has-any-liability-in-the-poplawski-murders/492450/26 "2009-04-09T13:45:49Z")
If Poplawski is the lunatic that he seems to be, then it seems hard to hold anyone liable for the unpredictable consequences of his mental disorder. We don’t blame the Beatles for Charles Manson, after all. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Moto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9de0a6/32.png) [@Mr.Moto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Moto)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2009, 1:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-believe-glenn-beck-has-any-liability-in-the-poplawski-murders/492450/27 "2009-04-09T13:47:07Z")
Well, lots of people did criticize Obama for his rather strident anti-gun record - myself included. And this record is pretty well documented. I wonder whether, by this reasoning (which I don’t find reasonable) President Obama shares some liability. By what Sullivan and others are saying, they ought to include Obama in their criticisms - at least according to the notions set forth in the OP. I don’t know whether **Sampiro** would agree, but it seems to me we can either blame both sides for a hot argument causing some people to get squirrely, or we can note that some people will get squirrely no matter what is being said. Since most things won’t be solved without these arguments, I say we have them and deal with such nuts as reveal themselves. ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2009, 1:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-believe-glenn-beck-has-any-liability-in-the-poplawski-murders/492450/28 "2009-04-09T13:50:14Z")
> [@Tom\_Tildrum](#): > > If Poplawski is the lunatic that he seems to be, then it seems hard to hold anyone liable for the unpredictable consequences of his mental disorder. We don’t blame the Beatles for Charles Manson, after all. What mental disorder have you seen evidence of him having? All I’ve seen evidence of is beliefs in hard-right ideology. Is that a mental disorder? I’ll refine my question and ask it again: If Glenn Beck rants with the intention of making his audience more fearful of the Obama administration, is he responsible for an increase in the level of fear in his audience regarding the Obama administration? ---
**Author:** ![Rhythmdvl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/85f322/32.png) [@Rhythmdvl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rhythmdvl)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2009, 2:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-believe-glenn-beck-has-any-liability-in-the-poplawski-murders/492450/29 "2009-04-09T14:00:37Z")
I am a big fan of accountability, but that let’s not forget the accounting part of accountability. We also need to find out what kind of music Richard Poplawski listened to and what games he played. ---
**Author:** ![Merijeek](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f05b48/32.png) [@Merijeek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merijeek)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2009, 2:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-believe-glenn-beck-has-any-liability-in-the-poplawski-murders/492450/30 "2009-04-09T14:15:02Z")
> [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](#): > > What mental disorder have you seen evidence of him having? All I’ve seen evidence of is beliefs in hard-right ideology. Is that a mental disorder? > > I’ll refine my question and ask it again: If Glenn Beck rants with the intention of making his audience more fearful of the Obama administration, is he responsible for an increase in the level of fear in his audience regarding the Obama administration? So, if Rush or Beck rants and raves and can get people to go to the polls he should be lauded by his other followers. But if they rant and rave and something bad happens they bear no responsibility whatsoever? How’s that work, exactly? -Joe ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Moto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9de0a6/32.png) [@Mr.Moto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Moto)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2009, 2:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-believe-glenn-beck-has-any-liability-in-the-poplawski-murders/492450/31 "2009-04-09T14:21:06Z")
> [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](#): > > What mental disorder have you seen evidence of him having? All I’ve seen evidence of is beliefs in hard-right ideology. Is that a mental disorder? News I’ve read (and remember I have roots in the area and was in Pittsburgh over the weekend) say he was often depressed and withdrawn, frequently beat his girlfriend to the point that she couldn’t take it any more, and washed out of Marine boot camp because he decided to fight the drill instructor. Now, all of this isn’t exactly proof of a legal definition of insanity, but it is an indication that there was a lot more going on in his head than mere ideology. I’m sure you would agree, right? ---
**Author:** ![Zebra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/c0e974/32.png) [@Zebra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zebra)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2009, 2:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-believe-glenn-beck-has-any-liability-in-the-poplawski-murders/492450/32 "2009-04-09T14:25:18Z")
Well, I don’t buy it when people blame Beavis and Butthead when they burned something down. I don’t buy it when people blame video games for violent behavior. As much as I loathe Mr. Beck, I don’t blame him for something a different nutjob actually did. ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2009, 2:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-believe-glenn-beck-has-any-liability-in-the-poplawski-murders/492450/33 "2009-04-09T14:28:05Z")
> [@Mr.Moto](#): > > News I’ve read (and remember I have roots in the area and was in Pittsburgh over the weekend) say he was often depressed and withdrawn, frequently beat his girlfriend to the point that she couldn’t take it any more, and washed out of Marine boot camp because he decided to fight the drill instructor. > > Now, all of this isn’t exactly proof of a legal definition of insanity, but it is an indication that there was a lot more going on in his head than mere ideology. > > I’m sure you would agree, right? Being violent isn’t a symptom of schizophrenia or psychotic disorder more generally, nor is it remotely close to the legal definition of insanity. I haven’t seen much discussion of him being depressed, and remember, I do have roots in the area. ---
**Author:** ![Bosstone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/22d042/32.png) [@Bosstone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosstone)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2009, 2:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-believe-glenn-beck-has-any-liability-in-the-poplawski-murders/492450/34 "2009-04-09T14:40:54Z")
> [@Omniscient](#): > > I don’t think Beck is culpable in this instance, however I think the type of insane comments being made on these right wing talk shows needs to be called into question. They are out and out calling Obama a tyrant. I mean, WTF? These are NEWS stations broadcasting this shit, the fact that this is allowed and apparently endorsed is a problem. That’s the thing, though: allow people to call the President a tyrant on air and chance people coming to think he’s a tyrant, despite the fact that such dissent would never be allowed under a true dictator (which nobody ever seems to realize), or quash the slander and have that used as “proof” of tyranny. Truthfully, Obama, or whoever the regulatory agency is that would crack down on the stations, would hurt his image far worse by doing something about it than if they allow it to continue. ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2009, 2:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-believe-glenn-beck-has-any-liability-in-the-poplawski-murders/492450/35 "2009-04-09T14:43:48Z")
Here’s a discussion of his web postings. Seems like a guy very much enmeshed in the message that the right would like people to believe. Perhaps it’s more far right, but look at what Glenn Beck, Michele Bachmann and the we surround them nonsense would like people to believe, and it really isn’t that far of a stretch. [http://www.pittsburghpostgazette.com/pg/09097/961072-53.stm](http://www.pittsburghpostgazette.com/pg/09097/961072-53.stm) ---
**Author:** ![Scumpup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ce73a5/32.png) [@Scumpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scumpup)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2009, 2:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-believe-glenn-beck-has-any-liability-in-the-poplawski-murders/492450/36 "2009-04-09T14:44:08Z")
> [@Rhythmdvl](#): > > I am a big fan of accountability, but that let’s not forget the accounting part of accountability. We also need to find out what kind of music Richard Poplawski listened to and what games he played. We also need to see if he ate a lot of refined sugar. ---
**Author:** ![davidw](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c4cdca/32.png) [@davidw](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/davidw)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2009, 2:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-believe-glenn-beck-has-any-liability-in-the-poplawski-murders/492450/37 "2009-04-09T14:45:38Z")
Don’t people generally assign some responsibility to Al Sharpton for the Freddie’s Fashion Mart fire? Seems like a similar situation to me. ---
**Author:** ![JXJohns](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jxjohns/32/469_2.png) [@JXJohns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JXJohns)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2009, 2:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-believe-glenn-beck-has-any-liability-in-the-poplawski-murders/492450/38 "2009-04-09T14:45:52Z")
> [@Merijeek](#): > > So, if Rush or Beck rants and raves and can get people to go to the polls he should be lauded by his other followers. But if they rant and rave and something bad happens they bear no responsibility whatsoever? > > How’s that work, exactly? > > -Joe “Get out and vote” is a long way from “The .gov is after you, kill the first cop you see…” I don’t believe either Rush or Beck are preaching any cop killing sermons. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2009, 2:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-believe-glenn-beck-has-any-liability-in-the-poplawski-murders/492450/39 "2009-04-09T14:52:13Z")
> [@davidw](#): > > Don’t people generally assign some responsibility to Al Sharpton for the Freddie’s Fashion Mart fire? Seems like a similar situation to me. Sharpton was addressing an angry mob, not broadcasting a TV show. From a Constitutional standpoint, the government actually _is_ allowed to prevent speech if it’s likely to lead to imminent violence. It’s not likely this would ever apply to a TV show. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Moto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9de0a6/32.png) [@Mr.Moto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Moto)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2009, 2:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-believe-glenn-beck-has-any-liability-in-the-poplawski-murders/492450/40 "2009-04-09T14:53:00Z")
> [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](#): > > Being violent isn’t a symptom of schizophrenia or psychotic disorder more generally, nor is it remotely close to the legal definition of insanity. > > I haven’t seen much discussion of him being depressed, and remember, I do have roots in the area. > [@](#): > > Poplawski’s aunt, Marianne Klimczyk, said her nephew was depressed and looking for work. > > “My heart goes out to the families and police officers who lost their lives,” said Klimczyk. > > Channel 11 News learned Poplawski was training to become a U.S. Marine at one point, but sources said he was kicked out of boot camp. Officials said he was also kicked out of North Catholic High School in Pittsburgh. > > In February of 2005, Poplawski’s girlfriend at the time filed a protection from abuse order against him after an alleged incident where he grabbed her hair and threatened to shoot her with a gun buried near his house. [From Channel 11.](http://www.wpxi.com/news/19094129/detail.html#-) Now, who was president in 2005? Where was Glenn Beck? He was on the radio but hadn’t made the jump to TV yet. Had this character actually shot his girlfriend four years ago, not only wouldn’t this be a national story but this notion of blaming radio hosts wouldn’t be on the radar screen. Yet it is clear that he had issues then, right? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-believe-glenn-beck-has-any-liability-in-the-poplawski-murders/492450.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-believe-glenn-beck-has-any-liability-in-the-poplawski-murders/492450.md?page=3)