# Do you believe Glenn Beck has any liability in the Poplawski murders? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [April 8, 2009, 11:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-believe-glenn-beck-has-any-liability-in-the-poplawski-murders/492450 "2009-04-08T23:28:34Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 14\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2009, 7:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-believe-glenn-beck-has-any-liability-in-the-poplawski-murders/492450/101 "2009-04-10T19:05:41Z")
But the audience for Fox News basically _is_ an angry mob. ---
**Author:** ![Zeriel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/58956e/32.png) [@Zeriel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zeriel)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2009, 8:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-believe-glenn-beck-has-any-liability-in-the-poplawski-murders/492450/102 "2009-04-10T20:04:27Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > But the audience for Fox News basically _is_ an angry mob. I’d rather we not talk about my dad that way, thanks, even if he is a (moderate, primarily with the party because he’s Catholic and pro-life is pro-life, he votes for the pro-life PA Democrats when he can) Republican. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2009, 8:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-believe-glenn-beck-has-any-liability-in-the-poplawski-murders/492450/103 "2009-04-10T20:56:38Z")
> [@OffByOne](#): > > …That’s like saying to a child, “Ever wonder what would happen if you stuck a screwdriver into a wall socket?” “Well, first thing will happen, Mom will fucking kill you!” ---
**Author:** ![sleestak](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/919ad9/32.png) [@sleestak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sleestak)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2009, 9:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-believe-glenn-beck-has-any-liability-in-the-poplawski-murders/492450/104 "2009-04-10T21:44:55Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > Does that go for people who picket abortion clinics too? Yep. Sure does\*. Quote from Marley: > [@](#): > > I think you’re dead wrong here. By this logic doesn’t any mass demonstration threaten violence? A public, physical show of support is not the same as a threat. True but there is a [long](http://www.electric-america.com/wt98/wt0412t.htm)[history](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Union_violence)of violence associated with picket lines, especially crossing them. Setting up a picket line and then encouraging the picket line by saying things like: > [@](#): > > There is a systemic and methodical strategy to eliminate our people from doing business off 125th Street. I want to make it clear … that we will not stand by and allow them to move this brother so that some white interloper can expand his business. [Link](http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Al_Sharpton) opens one up to a lot more criticism than someone who does a story on T.V. The fact that Sharpton a) created the picket line b) spoke out in threatening ways at the picket line and c) stood by while his deputies made even more threatening statements at the picket line put Sharptons actions in a totally different light than what Beck did. Even with the differences, I am not sure that Sharpton should be liable for the Freddy’s Fashion Mart killing. I think Sharpton is a total tool and probably had a good idea that someone would end up hurt but I don’t think he thought someone would get killed. At the same time he \*created \*the mob and then \*incited \*the mob… Slee \*I have no idea why you brought up abortion, unless you think I am some sort of right wing abortion nut. I am neither right wing nor against abortion rights. ---
**Author:** ![haymarketmartyr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/35a633/32.png) [@haymarketmartyr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/haymarketmartyr)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2009, 9:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-believe-glenn-beck-has-any-liability-in-the-poplawski-murders/492450/105 "2009-04-10T21:49:40Z")
Yup - Sharpton is a total scumbag and was partially liable for the Freddys sad events. Yup - Beck is a total scumbag is is partially liable for the right wing hate and what evolves from it. The two do not cancel out or excuse the other. ---
**Author:** ![sleestak](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/919ad9/32.png) [@sleestak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sleestak)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2009, 3:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-believe-glenn-beck-has-any-liability-in-the-poplawski-murders/492450/106 "2009-04-11T03:52:02Z")
> [@haymarketmartyr](#): > > Yup - Sharpton is a total scumbag and was partially liable for the Freddys sad events. > > Yup - Beck is a total scumbag is is partially liable for the right wing hate and what evolves from it. > > The two do not cancel out or excuse the other. Do you have a cite/link to Beck spewing hate? Hate on the level of the crap that Al Sharpton spews with regularity? I watched the video that the killer in this case had linked to on stormfront\*. Beck (whom I have never watched until this thread) goes on about FEMA camps, stating that he doesn’t think they exist. He then goes on about a bit about Obama giving money to community health centers, some people who do not want the government to pull money from doctors who object to abortion, and the government limiting deductions for charitable giving. The thrust of this is that the government wants more control and that once the government gets control they do not let go. Well, as far as I can tell, he is right. The government is continually wanting more control (both left and right\*\*). Once the government gets control it almost never gives it up. During that video I did not see him once call for armed insurrection or anything violent. Stating that the government is always trying to take more control != stating go out and shoot someone. It is not even close. Unless there is a great deal more that Beck said, I don’t believe that he has any responsibility on this one. Slee - I did not go to stormfront to look that up. Another poster to this thread posted the link earlier. I hope that I never have to wade through any posts by the idiots at stormfront. \*\* As far as I can tell, the left wants to control the money and the right wants to control the morals. I’d prefer it if both sides stopped trying. ---
**Author:** ![davidw](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c4cdca/32.png) [@davidw](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/davidw)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2009, 6:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-believe-glenn-beck-has-any-liability-in-the-poplawski-murders/492450/107 "2009-04-11T06:15:19Z")
> [@sleestak](#): > > Do you have a cite/link to Beck spewing hate? Hate on the level of the crap that Al Sharpton spews with regularity? [Glenn Beck hosts “War Games” show on “coming civil war.”](http://www.salon.com/opinion/greenwald/2009/02/22/militias/) [Glenn Beck warns: ‘Fascism is on the rise’](http://crooksandliars.com/node/27089) [Beck portrays Obama, Democrats as vampires “going after the blood of our businesses,” suggests “driv[ing] a stake through the heart of the bloodsuckers”](http://mediamatters.org/countyfair/200903300040) [Beck imitates Obama pouring gasoline on “average American”; says: “President Obama, why don’t you just set us on fire? … We didn’t vote to lose the Republic”](http://mediamatters.org/countyfair/200904090036?show=1) [Glenn Beck mocks Obama’s aunt’s “limp”](http://mediamatters.org/countyfair/200904020038) ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2009, 6:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-believe-glenn-beck-has-any-liability-in-the-poplawski-murders/492450/108 "2009-04-11T06:52:01Z")
I’ve never seen Sharpton spew hate. Beck does it pretty much every night. So does Hannity, so does O’Reilly. Fox News is pretty much the Hate Channel. ---
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2009, 8:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-believe-glenn-beck-has-any-liability-in-the-poplawski-murders/492450/109 "2009-04-11T08:29:22Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > … spew hate … So does Hannity … If ya think he spews you should read his message board. Open calls for putting “liberals” into death camps, treason trials of members of Congress for official acts that could never meet the Constitutional definition of treason with the death penalty as punishment, and carefully written posts advocating the murder of unnamed elected government officials (only because clear advocacy of murdering said is against the rules, you can come as close to the line as you want as long as you don’t cross it, even if there’s no question that you are in fact advocating murder). Fucking. Scary. Shit. CMC fnord! ---
**Author:** ![Argent\_Towers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e8c25b/32.png) [@Argent\_Towers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Argent_Towers)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2009, 8:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-believe-glenn-beck-has-any-liability-in-the-poplawski-murders/492450/110 "2009-04-11T08:54:45Z")
I see it. ---
**Author:** ![Ocean\_Annie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/8797f3/32.png) [@Ocean\_Annie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ocean_Annie)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2009, 8:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-believe-glenn-beck-has-any-liability-in-the-poplawski-murders/492450/111 "2009-04-11T08:59:24Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > That’s not the only issue. At the moment, the interpretation is that the speech is not protected if the speaker’s word create an **[incitement to imminent lawless action](http://supreme.justia.com/us/395/444/case.html)**. > > Beck’s words are highly provocative, but whether they are directed to inciteme violence or other lawbreaking, or likely to cause it, is another question. If he was talking to an angry mob, for example, it would be a more compelling argument than a broadcast over a TV show. This is exactly what is murky in some cable news and radio shows. When does free speech become incitement? I believe the Klan’s free speech should be protected like any other group. Individuals should be able to access books and material with any view point from any extreme group. I question whether the racist and other extremists with views grounded in ignorance should be given the legitimacy of a national cable news broadcast. Some people might believe the world is flat, but I don’t think their views should be legitimized with a public platform to offer a counter opinion to valid scientific theory. This conveys a message to the public that a flat earth is a legitimate theory. The media have more power to shape public perception than many people want to acknowledge. Glenn Beck is given air time on a cable news channel with mass public reach. He uses suggestion instead of directives. The entertainer excuse doesn’t absolve Beck from responsibility for his show, either. [War of the Worlds](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_War_of_the_Worlds_(radio))was entertainment but a significant portion of the population thought it was real. ---
**Author:** ![Justin\_Bailey](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/justin_bailey/32/8792_2.png) [@Justin\_Bailey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Justin_Bailey)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2009, 8:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-believe-glenn-beck-has-any-liability-in-the-poplawski-murders/492450/112 "2009-04-11T20:10:42Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > The two parties are pretty much equal on the “won’t somebody please think of the children” bandwagon. Democrats don’t give a crap about Harry Potter, but Hillary Clinton and Joe Lieberman, to name two, are outspoken critics of deadly entertainment. Clinton and Lieberman have long given up their anti-video game crusades when they realized the public (and the legislature) wasn’t buying it. [http://kotaku.com/gaming/esrb/lieberman-and-clinton-team-with-esrb-220009.php](http://kotaku.com/gaming/esrb/lieberman-and-clinton-team-with-esrb-220009.php) [http://kotaku.com/5084215/clinton-and-lieberman-praise-esrbs-new-rating-summaries](http://kotaku.com/5084215/clinton-and-lieberman-praise-esrbs-new-rating-summaries) ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2009, 8:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-believe-glenn-beck-has-any-liability-in-the-poplawski-murders/492450/113 "2009-04-11T20:41:53Z")
> [@Ocean\_Annie](#): > > This is exactly what is murky in some cable news and radio shows. When does free speech become incitement? I think the big question is imminence, not incitement. If a host goes on TV and spews a little of paranoid, ludicrous drivel, is a violent response from his viewers imminent? I’m not convinced of that. If Beck speaks to an armed and angry crowd and whips them up into a near riot, then yes, there might be a case for preventing imminent lawless action. When he’s talking on TV to a bunch of couch potatoes, I am not so sure violence and danger is imminent. That’s only from a constitutional and legal standpoint, not an ethical one. > [@](#): > > I question whether the racist and other extremists with views grounded in ignorance should be given the legitimacy of a national cable news broadcast. Should they? No. It’s a stupid thing to do on the part of the network, and they’re trading on the vanishing distinction between news and commentary or entertainment on TV. But I’m not convinced the law should intervene. > [@](#): > > [War of the Worlds](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_War_of_the_Worlds_(radio))was entertainment but a significant portion of the population thought it was real. This goes to show that entertainers have always pushed the boundaries on mass communication, and also that a lot of people are stupid. But if you want a comparison to people like Beck, I’d skip Orson Welles and go to Father Coughlin. > [@Justin\_Bailey](#): > > Clinton and Lieberman have long given up their anti-video game crusades when they realized the public (and the legislature) wasn’t buying it. My point was that they did it in the first place. And if the public bites on this one - and they might if Seung-Hui Cho had been a big FPS player, for example - I’m sure they’ll be at it again. ---
**Author:** ![Sampiro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2acd7d/32.png) [@Sampiro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sampiro)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2009, 11:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-believe-glenn-beck-has-any-liability-in-the-poplawski-murders/492450/114 "2009-04-11T23:25:09Z")
I just can’t blame Beck- much as I’d like to pin something drastic on him, this guy was a nutcase who’d have been set off by Daylight Savings Time if it hadn’t been anti Gun Control propaganda. I can only say what Media Matters [said to Lou Dobbs](http://mediamatters.org/items/200605240011), which is when openly white supremacist groups are cheering you it’s probably a good idea to back up and reconsider your viewpoints", though I don’t see Beck taking stock any more than [Dobbs did](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pLtYqI24SSM&feature=related). [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-believe-glenn-beck-has-any-liability-in-the-poplawski-murders/492450.md?page=5)