# Do you believe in anything that's paranormal? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [October 31, 2017, 3:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-believe-in-anything-thats-paranormal/800288 "2017-10-31T15:36:28Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![RivkahChaya](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rivkahchaya/32/8919_2.png) [@RivkahChaya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RivkahChaya)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2017, 9:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-believe-in-anything-thats-paranormal/800288/41 "2017-10-31T21:36:10Z")
No. ---
**Author:** ![begbert2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/begbert2/32/3357_2.png) [@begbert2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/begbert2)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2017, 9:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-believe-in-anything-thats-paranormal/800288/42 "2017-10-31T21:38:44Z")
> [@Jack\_Batty](#): > > To which he judoed me: “Is there anything that can’t be explained that you \*do \*believe in?” I believe the universe came into existence at some point. Can’t explain how or why it did, though. That’s not a paranormal question, but I believe it’s a ‘super’-‘natural’ one! 😛 ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2017, 9:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-believe-in-anything-thats-paranormal/800288/43 "2017-10-31T21:50:35Z")
> [@madsircool](#): > > Yes it is. How would the Founding Fathers have reacted if someone landed a helicopter in a square during the Continental Congress. In fairly certain their reaction would be the same as ours if someone elevated a car and flung it across the street. They would have examined it, found gears, wires, screws and whatnot, and determined that it was mechanical, even if they were not sure how the mechanics worked. Your definition of “paranormal” is just too broad to be useful. ---
**Author:** ![begbert2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/begbert2/32/3357_2.png) [@begbert2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/begbert2)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2017, 10:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-believe-in-anything-thats-paranormal/800288/44 "2017-10-31T22:06:37Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > They would have examined it, found gears, wires, screws and whatnot, and determined that it was mechanical, even if they were not sure how the mechanics worked. Your definition of “paranormal” is just too broad to be useful. Honestly a closer analogue would be radio waves. An invisible, intangible medium that allows things to communicate at a distance? Those wires are telepathic! ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2017, 10:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-believe-in-anything-thats-paranormal/800288/45 "2017-10-31T22:11:38Z")
I don’t believe in paranormal to the extent that something can’t be explained by natural laws. Everything has an explanation, we just don’t know what it is sometimes. For example, let’s say there were ghosts. What are the chances that they would be the souls of dead people? Humans tend to anthropomorphize everything they don’t understand. If ghosts did exist, they’d be more likely to be some kind of animal made of energy that we had trouble finding or measuring. ---
**Author:** ![Beckdawrek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/beckdawrek/32/3647_2.png) [@Beckdawrek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beckdawrek)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2017, 11:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-believe-in-anything-thats-paranormal/800288/46 "2017-10-31T23:21:58Z")
I am not ‘normal’, so I am paranormal, so yes I believe in myself. ---
**Author:** ![Siam\_Sam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d78d45/32.png) [@Siam\_Sam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siam_Sam)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2017, 11:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-believe-in-anything-thats-paranormal/800288/47 "2017-10-31T23:43:39Z")
> [@Quimby](#): > > Sea Monsters? Ghosts? ESP? Aliens visiting the Earth? Big Foot? Real world Magic? Anything at all. What do you believe is real? No. That’s only for ignorant people. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2017, 11:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-believe-in-anything-thats-paranormal/800288/48 "2017-10-31T23:50:40Z")
Aliens should not really be considered paranormal. That’s actually just an unanswered question. It only gets lumped in with the paranormal because it attracts the same kind of weirdos. ---
**Author:** ![Darren\_Garrison](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darren_garrison/32/92_2.png) [@Darren\_Garrison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darren_Garrison)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2017, 11:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-believe-in-anything-thats-paranormal/800288/49 "2017-10-31T23:51:18Z")
> [@madsircool](#): > > Yes it is. How would the Founding Fathers have reacted if someone landed a helicopter in a square during the Continental Congress. In fairly certain their reaction would be the same as ours if someone elevated a car and flung it across the street. Leonardo da Vinci wouldn’t have had a problem with it ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2017, 11:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-believe-in-anything-thats-paranormal/800288/50 "2017-10-31T23:57:09Z")
First we must define “magic” or “the paranormal” in such a way that the question makes sense. If we define “magic” to mean “that which cannot happen”, for instance, then the question is trivial: Things that can’t happen don’t happen, and things that do happen can happen, and so there is no magic. Given this, the best definition I’ve been able to come up with is that magic is something that cannot be explained. So, if you ask me if I believe in magic, then you’re asking me if I believe that there is anything which cannot be explained. And the answer to that is a resounding “yes”. It’s even been proven mathematically: Gödel’s Theorem can be interpreted as a proof that magic exists. ---
**Author:** ![begbert2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/begbert2/32/3357_2.png) [@begbert2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/begbert2)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2017, 11:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-believe-in-anything-thats-paranormal/800288/51 "2017-10-31T23:59:17Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Aliens should not really be considered paranormal. That’s actually just an unanswered question. It only gets lumped in with the paranormal because it attracts the same kind of weirdos. Aliens (or more specifically, aliens on earth) are closer to cryptozoology things like bigfoot and loch ness than supernatural things - they’re things that in theory _could_ exist at least at a physical level, except for the fact that by all credible evidence they’re nowhere to be found. Supernatural things by and large seem to be things that would require us to revise or expand our understanding of physics to account for. Like radio! ---
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2017, 12:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-believe-in-anything-thats-paranormal/800288/52 "2017-11-01T00:30:39Z")
> [@The\_wind\_of\_my\_soul](#): > > …I think that in this age of science, we try very hard to fit any unexplained phenomena into our existing scientific knowledge of the world, and that by doing so, we sometimes arrive at the wrong explanation because what’s really happening is something that hasn’t yet been discovered and affirmed by science. This trope that scientists want to deny the existence of phenomena that don’t fit current theories is complete nonsense. In fact, most claims of “unexplained phenomena” usually fail at the hurdle of _existence_, which always precedes the necessity for a novel explanation. Under properly controlled conditions, claimed paranormal phenomena simply do not occur, there is no phenomenon to explain. That’s why Randi still has his million dollars. On the other hand, _real_ anomalies that stand up to careful experimental scrutiny yet don’t fit current models get scientists excited, not defensive. That way lies new science, fame and fortune. ---
**Author:** ![DrForrester](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/8edcca/32.png) [@DrForrester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrForrester)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2017, 1:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-believe-in-anything-thats-paranormal/800288/53 "2017-11-01T01:17:49Z")
For me, probably the closest I’ll likely go towards the black hole of “believing” in “paranormal” things is the inexplicable believing in something for absolutely no reason… I am referring here to the [Oak Island Mystery](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oak_Island_mystery). Despite all reason & common sense, it’s got its claws in my brain. ---
**Author:** ![molten](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ec9cab/32.png) [@molten](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/molten)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2017, 3:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-believe-in-anything-thats-paranormal/800288/54 "2017-11-01T03:39:07Z")
> [@](#): > > For me, probably the closest I’ll likely go towards the black hole of “believing” in “paranormal” things is the inexplicable believing in something for absolutely no reason… I am referring here to the Oak Island Mystery. Despite all reason & common sense, it’s got its claws in my brain. I love the Oak Island show too! there is something about that concept that reminds me of childhood: digging for stuff in the sandbox and finding worms etc. The problem with the paranormal is that it can always be a hallucination or the result of some mental illness. Just to validate something “paranormal” has happened, you either need a group of observers (peer review), or a repeat experience - basically some application of the scientific method. ---
**Author:** ![FlikTheBlue](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fliktheblue/32/10972_2.png) [@FlikTheBlue](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FlikTheBlue)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2017, 4:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-believe-in-anything-thats-paranormal/800288/55 "2017-11-01T04:48:15Z")
I’m in the Fox Mulder school of thought. I want to believe, but I don’t actually believe that anything paranormal or supernatural exists. ---
**Author:** ![The\_wind\_of\_my\_soul](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ecc23a/32.png) [@The\_wind\_of\_my\_soul](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_wind_of_my_soul)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2017, 11:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-believe-in-anything-thats-paranormal/800288/56 "2017-11-01T11:34:36Z")
> [@Riemann](#): > > This trope that scientists want to deny the existence of phenomena that don’t fit current theories is complete nonsense. > > In fact, most claims of “unexplained phenomena” usually fail at the hurdle of _existence_, which always precedes the necessity for a novel explanation. Under properly controlled conditions, claimed paranormal phenomena simply do not occur, there is no phenomenon to explain. That’s why Randi still has his million dollars. > > On the other hand, _real_ anomalies that stand up to careful experimental scrutiny yet don’t fit current models get scientists excited, not defensive. That way lies new science, fame and fortune. To give you a few examples of what I’m referring to: [Gloria Ramirez](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gloria_Ramirez) [Dyatlov Pass Incident](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dyatlov_Pass_incident#Theories) [Dancing Plague](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dancing_Plague_of_1518) In each of these cases, mass hysteria was pointed to as a suggested cause, with other suggested explanations also striking me as possible, but unlikely. In each case, in my personal opinion, something was going on that science is, as of yet, unable to explain. (While not chalked up to mass hysteria, another incident of strange unexplained phenomena is the immortality of HeLa cells.) Some people in this thread seem to want to define paranormal pretty narrowly. I’m not claiming that undead spirits or forces from another galaxy are responsible for all these cases (though they could be!). But in each case, I suspect that we do not currently have a sufficient scientific understanding of the world to explain what happened in the cases above, and that phenomena that is, as of now, undiscovered and unexplained, is the cause of the examples listed above. And according to the definition I’m using, phenomena that is unexplainable by modern science is paranormal. ---
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2017, 1:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-believe-in-anything-thats-paranormal/800288/57 "2017-11-01T13:11:51Z")
> [@The\_wind\_of\_my\_soul](#): > > To give you a few examples of what I’m referring to: > > [Gloria Ramirez](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gloria_Ramirez) > > [Dyatlov Pass Incident](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dyatlov_Pass_incident#Theories) > > [Dancing Plague](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dancing_Plague_of_1518) > > In each of these cases, mass hysteria was pointed to as a suggested cause, with other suggested explanations also striking me as possible, but unlikely. In each case, in my personal opinion, something was going on that science is, as of yet, unable to explain. (While not chalked up to mass hysteria, another incident of strange unexplained phenomena is the immortality of HeLa cells.) > > Some people in this thread seem to want to define paranormal pretty narrowly. I’m not claiming that undead spirits or forces from another galaxy are responsible for all these cases (though they could be!). But in each case, I suspect that we do not currently have a sufficient scientific understanding of the world to explain what happened in the cases above, and that phenomena that is, as of now, undiscovered and unexplained, is the cause of the examples listed above. And according to the definition I’m using, phenomena that is unexplainable by modern science is paranormal. You want to assign paranormal causes to three situations where we have imperfect knowledge, and that are inaccessible to further scientific research because they are one-off events that happened in the past. That’s your inclination, but it’s not supported by any compelling evidence. Of the three situations, the Ramirez case was the only one accessible to modern scientific examination at the time, and a plausible hypothesis was presented, DMSO poisoning. If you think magic is more likely than DMSO, that speak more to your personal inclinations that to the evidence of the case. It’s interesting that the fourth example that you give is the only one accessible to ongoing scientific research. And that, contrary to your claim, it is _not_ unexplained. There is no great mystery about the loss of senescence is HeLa cells, and in other cancer cells. > **[Cellular senescence](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cellular_senescence)** > > Cellular senescence is a phenomenon characterized by the cessation of cell division. In their experiments during the early 1960s, Leonard Hayflick and Paul Moorhead found that normal human fetal fibroblasts in culture reach a maximum of approximately 50 cell population doublings before becoming senescent. This process is known as "replicative senescence", or the Hayflick limit. Hayflick's discovery of mortal cells paved the path for the discovery and understanding of cellular ag The physiological... We may not know exactly which mutations were key in the particular case of HeLa cells, but the principles are well understood. Senescence is only a feature of the somatic cells of multicellular organisms. All single-celled organisms are “immortal” in the same way. ---
**Author:** ![Annie-Xmas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecc23a/32.png) [@Annie-Xmas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Annie-Xmas)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2017, 1:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-believe-in-anything-thats-paranormal/800288/58 "2017-11-01T13:28:36Z")
I do believe that people are able to read the minds of their future selves Since you didn’t start living this second, and you can think about your past life, somewhere exists your future self who is thinking about their past/your present and future. Hence, the occasional knowledge of future events. ---
**Author:** ![Darren\_Garrison](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darren_garrison/32/92_2.png) [@Darren\_Garrison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darren_Garrison)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2017, 1:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-believe-in-anything-thats-paranormal/800288/59 "2017-11-01T13:51:37Z")
> [@Riemann](#): > > It’s interesting that the fourth example that you give is the only one accessible to ongoing scientific research. And that, contrary to your claim, it is _not_ unexplained. There is no great mystery about the loss of senescence is HeLa cells, and in other cancer cells. Also was the twoms’s seeming implication that HeLa is the only immortal cell line, but [there are many of them](https://bitesizebio.com/24304/how-to-become-immortal-generation-of-immortal-cell-lines/). I don’t know _how_ many, but [here](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_contaminated_cell_lines) is a list of just ones that are contaminated. Immortal cell lines are as “strange and unexplained” as [tides](http://www.newser.com/story/109164/bill-oreilly-to-atheists-you-cant-explain-the-tides.html). [ > [@](#): > > We may not know exactly which mutations were key in the particular case of HeLa cells, but the principles are well understood. If we don’t know now, we probably will soon enough. Note [URL=“[One to 10 mutations are needed to drive cancer, scientists find | ScienceDaily](https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2017/10/171019142913.htm)”]this]([Cellular senescence - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cellular_senescence)) recently released study. ---
**Author:** ![The\_wind\_of\_my\_soul](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ecc23a/32.png) [@The\_wind\_of\_my\_soul](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_wind_of_my_soul)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2017, 2:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-believe-in-anything-thats-paranormal/800288/60 "2017-11-01T14:09:52Z")
> [@Darren\_Garrison](#): > > Also was the twoms’s seeming implication that HeLa is the only immortal cell line, but [there are many of them](https://bitesizebio.com/24304/how-to-become-immortal-generation-of-immortal-cell-lines/). I don’t know _how_ many, but [here](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_contaminated_cell_lines) is a list of just ones that are contaminated. Immortal cell lines are as “strange and unexplained” as [tides](http://www.newser.com/story/109164/bill-oreilly-to-atheists-you-cant-explain-the-tides.html). > > [ > > If we don’t know now, we probably will soon enough. Note [URL=“[One to 10 mutations are needed to drive cancer, scientists find | ScienceDaily](https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2017/10/171019142913.htm)”]this]([Cellular senescence - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cellular_senescence)) recently released study. Interesting. I would think immortality is a classic example of paranormal activity (because paranormal activity is so often linked with the idea of spirits living on after “death”), but in this case, a scientific explanation would render it not paranormal. Which brings me to a follow-up question for people insisting that “paranormal” means “magic.” If there were scientific evidence for ghosts, ESP, telekinesis, etc. – whatever is considered paranormal today – would you argue that those never were paranormal in the first place? If so, how can you determine if anything is classified as “paranormal,” given that we don’t know what might possibly be discovered that we don’t yet know? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-believe-in-anything-thats-paranormal/800288.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-believe-in-anything-thats-paranormal/800288.md?page=4)