# Do you believe in ghosts and the paranormal? **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [July 17, 2008, 9:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-believe-in-ghosts-and-the-paranormal/456871 "2008-07-17T21:17:59Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 12
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2008, 7:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-believe-in-ghosts-and-the-paranormal/456871/221 "2008-07-22T19:56:28Z")
[QUOTE=Diogenes the Cynic] [Pit thread](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=10028844#post10028844) [/QUOTE] No, no, no! MPSIMS, not the Pit! šŸ˜‰ ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2008, 8:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-believe-in-ghosts-and-the-paranormal/456871/222 "2008-07-22T20:06:07Z")
[QUOTE=lekatt] Can you see that believing in everything is the same as believing in nothing? [/QUOTE] Aw, that one finally got through to you, so much so that youā€™ve adopted it as your own! ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2008, 8:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-believe-in-ghosts-and-the-paranormal/456871/223 "2008-07-22T20:08:07Z")
Sorry Iā€™m late; I donā€™t really hang around GD. [QUOTE=samarm] Interesting point, Sampiro. Maybe things that we would call ā€œparanormalā€, are actual events which can be explained by some as yet undiscovered laws of the natural world. Its possible that in 100 years time scientists will be able to debunk a lot of what people might call hauntings and supernatural events. [/QUOTE] My sentiments exactly; the original definition of ā€œparanormalā€. ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2008, 8:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-believe-in-ghosts-and-the-paranormal/456871/224 "2008-07-22T20:48:43Z")
By the way, all you Sylvia haters should get a kick out of this: [Robert Lancaster (of Stop Sylvia Brown) attended one of her Vegas acts](http://www.stopsylviabrowne.com/articles/ispeakwithbrowne.shtml). ---
**Author:** ![vetbridge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b5e925/32.png) [@vetbridge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vetbridge)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2008, 9:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-believe-in-ghosts-and-the-paranormal/456871/225 "2008-07-22T21:31:53Z")
[QUOTE=lekatt] I remember reading about a study by Psychology Today magazine. They sent questionnaires out to thousands and they showed 5% of the people who returned them heard voices. [/QUOTE] Which says a boatload about people who answer magazine surveys. ---
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2008, 9:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-believe-in-ghosts-and-the-paranormal/456871/226 "2008-07-22T21:59:39Z")
[QUOTE=tomndebb] So, it is always possible that there is no afterlife, (the ā€œlightā€ could be the spiritā€™s perception of annihilation\*), and learning that there are ghosts wandering about would simply give people false hope. [/QUOTE] Huh? And how is going to the movies and kissing girls after your death not an afterlife? ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2008, 10:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-believe-in-ghosts-and-the-paranormal/456871/227 "2008-07-22T22:03:57Z")
[QUOTE=clairobscur] Huh? And how is going to the movies and kissing girls after your death not an afterlife? [/QUOTE] ā€œItā€™s never too late to have a happy childhood.ā€ ---
**Author:** ![Lavender\_Falcon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/b782af/32.png) [@Lavender\_Falcon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lavender_Falcon)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2008, 10:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-believe-in-ghosts-and-the-paranormal/456871/228 "2008-07-22T22:10:24Z")
[QUOTE=meenie7] The next time my best friend and I are together, we will conduct a test on Marcus for our own curiosity. (He lives in California now and I donā€™t see him as often as Iā€™d like.) Marcus says he will commit to that at least. The bigger stuff, he doesnā€™t have a problem doing, but he worries about me, in the event the test ā€œfailsā€ and I am embarrassed as a liar or a crazy person. [/QUOTE] If youā€™re interested, there is a [parapsychology program](http://www.healthsystem.virginia.edu/internet/personalitystudies/home.cfm) at the University of Virginia that might be interested in your experiences. They will also [safeguard your identity](http://www.healthsystem.virginia.edu/internet/personalitystudies/contacting_us.cfm), so there is no possibility of embarrassment: > [@](#): > > Persons submitting reports of unusual experiences should be willing to participate in research, which often involves questionnaires and sometimes interviews. Identities of persons sharing experiences with us will be carefully concealed in any published report. We regret, however, that the small size of our staff sometimes makes it impossible for us to investigate every case brought to our attention. Thought Iā€™d mention it, since if they did want to learn more about your experiences, it would be a way to help increase understanding of this kind of thing without compromising your wish that your friends and family wonā€™t know about Marcus. ---
**Author:** ![meenie7](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7993a0/32.png) [@meenie7](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/meenie7)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2008, 11:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-believe-in-ghosts-and-the-paranormal/456871/229 "2008-07-22T23:21:25Z")
[QUOTE=Frank] ā€œItā€™s never too late to have a happy childhood.ā€ [/QUOTE] Indeed it isnā€™t. šŸ™‚ Marcus is laughing at that. šŸ™‚ ---
**Author:** ![j666](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/9de0a6/32.png) [@j666](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/j666)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2008, 11:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-believe-in-ghosts-and-the-paranormal/456871/230 "2008-07-22T23:49:03Z")
[QUOTE=ivan astikov] Hands up all those who think meenie is cheating mankind, by refusing to have his experiences independently tested? Iā€™d have thought natural curiosity alone, would have caused meenie to have had his ā€˜hauntingā€™ verified somehow? [/QUOTE] Hand promptly raised. To scratch head. The desire for privacy does not need to be defended. Is there nothing people wonā€™t be judgmental about? I am beginning to think those who hold that a Scientist is an adherent to Scientism have a point. ---
**Author:** ![ivan\_astikov](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/58f4c7/32.png) [@ivan\_astikov](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ivan_astikov)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2008, 12:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-believe-in-ghosts-and-the-paranormal/456871/231 "2008-07-23T00:04:36Z")
[QUOTE=j666] Hand promptly raised. To scratch head. The desire for privacy does not need to be defended. Is there nothing people wonā€™t be judgmental about? I am beginning to think those who hold that a Scientist is an adherent to Scientism have a point. [/QUOTE] What happened to fighting ignorance? I thought extraordinary claims required extraordinary proof? Those of us who are interested in the concept have merely politely asked meenie to do a very simple test, and she is under no obligation whatsoever to listen to any of our requests. ---
**Author:** ![begbert2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/begbert2/32/3357_2.png) [@begbert2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/begbert2)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2008, 12:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-believe-in-ghosts-and-the-paranormal/456871/232 "2008-07-23T00:19:36Z")
[QUOTE=ivan astikov] What happened to fighting ignorance? I thought extraordinary claims required extraordinary proof? Those of us who are interested in the concept have merely politely asked meenie to do a very simple test, and she is under no obligation whatsoever to listen to any of our requests. [/QUOTE] And she said in post #218 that sheā€™d conduct a test. Just _not this minute_. ---
**Author:** ![ivan\_astikov](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/58f4c7/32.png) [@ivan\_astikov](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ivan_astikov)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2008, 1:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-believe-in-ghosts-and-the-paranormal/456871/233 "2008-07-23T01:18:17Z")
[QUOTE=begbert2] And she said in post #218 that sheā€™d conduct a test. Just _not this minute_. [/QUOTE] I apologise to meenie if I am coming across as very pushy. Itā€™s just a little frustrating, when a potential paradigm shift for mankind could be resting on meenies experiences being proven beyond mere stagecraft. I dismiss the idea of a god because I see little sign of the ā€˜miraculousā€™ in this world we inhabit. Everything is bounded by ā€˜natureā€™, and truly wonderous, world-view changing ideas are relegated to the realm of mumbo-jumbo land. ---
**Author:** ![j666](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/9de0a6/32.png) [@j666](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/j666)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2008, 2:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-believe-in-ghosts-and-the-paranormal/456871/234 "2008-07-23T02:19:28Z")
[QUOTE=ivan astikov] What happened to fighting ignorance? I thought extraordinary claims required extraordinary proof? Those of us who are interested in the concept have merely politely asked meenie to do a very simple test, and she is under no obligation whatsoever to listen to any of our requests. [/QUOTE] Since when is fighting ignorance equivalent to accusing people of moral turpitude? Some have accused **meenie** of doing harm by sharing a story s/he was invited to share. The topic of the OP was [very loosely] if you believe in the paranormal, why? To suggest that **meenie** is somehow immoral for sharing the story, and refusing to meet an anonymous challenge, _the results of which would not be believed if positive_ is ā€¦ ā€¦ the kind of tactics perfectly designed for perpetuating ignorance. ---
**Author:** ![Oslo\_Ostragoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/a9a28c/32.png) [@Oslo\_Ostragoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oslo_Ostragoth)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2008, 4:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-believe-in-ghosts-and-the-paranormal/456871/235 "2008-07-23T04:54:40Z")
[QUOTE=katpohl] I started looking/searching on the Internet for psychic sites about 4 years after my daughter passed ,there is no explanation why ā€˜all the suddenā€™ I became interested in the subject, but I found a site that seemed less wackoā€™ then most of them and started hanging out in the chat room on the site. On eveing a 'reader 'from Scotland ask me if he could ā€˜read meā€™ , I said sure not having a clue what he meant by ā€˜read meā€™ .On this site no reading can be done without a third person in the reading and it had to be a mod , so the reader tells me which reading room in chat to go to, I get there and there is the reader and a mod there. Chat is all in text on this site. [/QUOTE] Could you IM/email me this site? Iā€™d like to do a little reading there. ---
**Author:** ![Oslo\_Ostragoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/a9a28c/32.png) [@Oslo\_Ostragoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oslo_Ostragoth)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2008, 5:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-believe-in-ghosts-and-the-paranormal/456871/236 "2008-07-23T05:01:04Z")
[QUOTE=meenie7] The next time my best friend and I are together, we will conduct a test on Marcus for our own curiosity. (He lives in California now and I donā€™t see him as often as Iā€™d like.) Marcus says he will commit to that at least. The bigger stuff, he doesnā€™t have a problem doing, but he worries about me, in the event the test ā€œfailsā€ and I am embarrassed as a liar or a crazy person. [/QUOTE] Good. I was going to suggest this. Marcus may not be comfortable being tested, so easing him into it by appearing when another person is present may be the right approach. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2008, 10:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-believe-in-ghosts-and-the-paranormal/456871/237 "2008-07-23T10:56:50Z")
[QUOTE=tomndebb] Second, nothing that **meenie7** can do will ā€œproveā€ the existence of Marcus (except to **meenie7**. No matter what evidence is proferred, someone will figure out a way to dismiss it. That is neither here not there regarding the reality of **meenie7** ā€™s experiences, but it means that demands for proof are a waste of time. No one on this board is going to accept the word of another poster that some third party has verified **meenie7** ā€™s tests and if the tests failed, they could actually be because Marcus did not want to be put on display, was afraid of cameras, felt **meenie7** was betraying a trust, or for some other reason. [/QUOTE] Ah, one of the standard lines used to handwave aside criticisms of nonsense like ghosts, psychic powers, and God. The people who want evidence of something that so totally contradicts what we know of the world are all **bad people**. They canā€™t possibly be dismissive because itā€™s an idea thatā€™s logically inconsistant or violates known physical laws - they are True Believers in anti-ghostism or whatever who will deny any and all evidence. Instead of being skeptics who are dismissive of such beliefs because thereā€™s never been any evidence for them to reject. This is simply another example of a ā€œjealous phenomenonā€; something that convieniently only appears in front of people who already believe in it. And as such things always are, itā€™s garbage - real oddball events donā€™t carefully avoid skeptics and chase people who are believers. ---
**Author:** ![jbstarr10](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/b5ac83/32.png) [@jbstarr10](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jbstarr10)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2008, 2:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-believe-in-ghosts-and-the-paranormal/456871/238 "2008-07-23T14:21:11Z")
[QUOTE=meenie7] The next time my best friend and I are together, we will conduct a test on Marcus for our own curiosity. (He lives in California now and I donā€™t see him as often as Iā€™d like.) Marcus says he will commit to that at least. The bigger stuff, he doesnā€™t have a problem doing, but he worries about me, in the event the test ā€œfailsā€ and I am embarrassed as a liar or a crazy person. [/QUOTE] Thanks for this - I wish you luck and look forward to hearing the results, if you choose to share. ---
**Author:** ![jbstarr10](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/b5ac83/32.png) [@jbstarr10](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jbstarr10)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2008, 2:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-believe-in-ghosts-and-the-paranormal/456871/239 "2008-07-23T14:25:47Z")
[QUOTE=j666] Hand promptly raised. To scratch head. The desire for privacy does not need to be defended. Is there nothing people wonā€™t be judgmental about? I am beginning to think those who hold that a Scientist is an adherent to Scientism have a point. [/QUOTE] She absolutely has the right to privacy. And yes, I am judgemental about people who are willing to share their earth-shattering experiences on the internet but wonā€™t conduct a simple test (that can be done privately) to verify it. Nobody here has demanded she go on TV and do this in front of the world. If you post in ā€˜Great Debatesā€™ on ā€˜The Straight Dopeā€™ about these kinds of things - do you really expect it NOT to be challenged? ---
**Author:** ![ivan\_astikov](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/58f4c7/32.png) [@ivan\_astikov](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ivan_astikov)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2008, 2:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-believe-in-ghosts-and-the-paranormal/456871/240 "2008-07-23T14:33:28Z")
Sheā€™d have been ripped limb from limb if she had posted it on the JREF site! Those hard-core skeptics are an ornery old bunch! [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-believe-in-ghosts-and-the-paranormal/456871.md?page=11) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-believe-in-ghosts-and-the-paranormal/456871.md?page=13)