# Do you believe in Ghosts? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [May 11, 2006, 8:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-believe-in-ghosts/356419 "2006-05-11T20:36:30Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Sal\_Ammoniac](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/8dc957/32.png) [@Sal\_Ammoniac](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sal_Ammoniac)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2006, 7:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-believe-in-ghosts/356419/61 "2006-05-12T19:50:04Z")
Nope, not a ghost person. I live in an old house, and hear odd noises from time to time, but it’s usually the tenants. I have had the experience of hearing a sound – a toilet running, etc., – and reading meaning into it. And it’s true that you can convince yourself that you’re hearing something. Here’s an experiment to try, if you have small kids – lie in bed, and ask yourself whether the baby is crying. Really strain your ears. Within five minutes, you’ll be compelled to get up and check on the baby because you’re convinced it’s crying. And then you’ll be mad at me. ---
**Author:** ![Batsinma\_Belfry](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ea5d25/32.png) [@Batsinma\_Belfry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Batsinma_Belfry)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2006, 7:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-believe-in-ghosts/356419/62 "2006-05-12T19:54:27Z")
Was it really necessary to post basicly the same thread in two forums? I was going to relate an experience I had but didn’t want to hijack your other thread. Plus, I wanted more rational replies than just random drive bys. So I popped in over here, and here you are again! ---
**Author:** ![Winston\_Smith](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e95f7d/32.png) [@Winston\_Smith](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Winston_Smith)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2006, 7:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-believe-in-ghosts/356419/63 "2006-05-12T19:59:30Z")
[QUOTE=Batsinma Belfry] Was it really necessary to post basicly the same thread in two forums? [/QUOTE] Yeah, it was. The SDMB StormTroopers came to my office and threatened to thrash me if I didn’t. :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![Winston\_Smith](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e95f7d/32.png) [@Winston\_Smith](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Winston_Smith)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2006, 8:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-believe-in-ghosts/356419/64 "2006-05-12T20:03:58Z")
[QUOTE=Batsinma Belfry] Was it really necessary to post basicly the same thread in two forums? I was going to relate an experience I had but didn’t want to hijack your other thread. Plus, I wanted more rational replies than just random drive bys. So I popped in over here, and here you are again! [/QUOTE] I opened this thread because of the reasons you cite in the second and third sentences of your post. So. You’re giving me crap because I opened the thread _you_ were going to open? Is that it? ---
**Author:** ![Batsinma\_Belfry](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ea5d25/32.png) [@Batsinma\_Belfry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Batsinma_Belfry)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2006, 8:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-believe-in-ghosts/356419/65 "2006-05-12T20:23:02Z")
[QUOTE=Winston Smith] I opened this thread because of the reasons you cite in the second and third sentences of your post. So. You’re giving me crap because I opened the thread _you_ were going to open? Is that it? [/QUOTE] Where’s the crap? Is it ghost crap? This is far from the thread I was thinking of starting. I try not to start threads with titles that pop up every six months or so and get the same exact replies. Plus your experience is much more interesting than mine. I just don’t understand why you have threads in two forums about the same event. ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2006, 8:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-believe-in-ghosts/356419/66 "2006-05-12T20:27:12Z")
[QUOTE=davenportavenger] Was the blanket moved? If not, possibly a [sleep start](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sleep_start) or other type of sleep-related hallucination. If so, practical joke on the part of the other person. Never fail to take into account the fact that other people might be lying, either the “ghost”-seeing person or the “fully asleep” person in the other room. [/QUOTE] Yes, the blanket was moved. Immediately prior to it smaking the person in the face, it had been on the floor. The person never broke contact with the bed untiil after being smacked in the face. Nobody else was in the room. The other person has night blindness so bad that driving at night is not a good idea. Especially driving at night in an area with no street lights. This is not a person who goes stumbling around in the dark for any reason. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2006, 8:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-believe-in-ghosts/356419/67 "2006-05-12T20:35:27Z")
The person who got smacked probably picked up the blanket in his sleep. How do you know they _couldn’t_ have? It’s also not impossible that the other person threw the blanket or that some sort of updraft blew the blanket onto the bed or that there was some other utterly prosaic explanation. “It was magic” is a lazy and illogical conclusion. I guarantee it wasn’t magic. ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2006, 8:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-believe-in-ghosts/356419/68 "2006-05-12T20:42:56Z")
[QUOTE=Diogenes the Cynic] The person who got smacked probably picked up the blanket in his sleep. How do you know they _couldn’t_ have? [/quote] Because the person was awake enough to realize that they need another blanket but not awake enough to pick it up, not until being hit in the face. > [@](#): > > _It’s also not impossible that the other person threw the blanket_ The other person abosultely cannot see enough to safely get to where the blanket had been. > [@](#): > > \*or that some sort of updraft blew the blanket onto the bed \* What kind of updraft can move a three pound blanket? > [@](#): > > _“It was magic” is a lazy and illogical conclusion._ God thing nobody’s saying “it was magic” then. > [@](#): > > - I guarantee it wasn’t magic.\* You’re not doing a good job proving it was “natural”. ---
**Author:** ![Alan\_Smithee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/2acd7d/32.png) [@Alan\_Smithee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alan_Smithee)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2006, 8:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-believe-in-ghosts/356419/69 "2006-05-12T20:49:46Z")
[QUOTE=Trunk] If anyone disagrees with the statement, “a prankster with an invisibility device is more likely to exist than a ghost”, then you and I don’t even have a starting point for a discussion like this. [/QUOTE] Heh. I like this line a lot. I may quote it in the future. Here’s how I look at it and why I don’t believe in ghosts. I perform a thought experiment. I imagine a hypothetical world in which every occurrence has a physical explanation and nothing but the physical as we understand it exists. Then I ask myself what this world would look like. Specifically, I ask myself whether people in this world would be expected to perceive things that would _appear_ to them to be supernatural or without physical explanation. The answer is yes. In fact, the only way that I could imagine that not to be the case, would be if the people in this world were somehow able to perceive things accurately and completely and to detect and mentally discount any instance in which their observation was less than perfect–something that would itself require almost uncanny powers. In other words, this world we live in looks **exactly** like what I would expect a perfectly physical, scientifically explainable world to look like, right down to fallible human beings who think they see ghosts. Since every experiment needs a control, I also ask myself what world haunted by psychic energy fields, spooky action at a distance, or Ectoplasmic-Americans would look like. And while it is possible that such a world would look like our own, I wouldn’t **expect** it to. I would expect it to look like the world of Stephen King’s fiction, or some South American writer, or the Bible. I would expect these mystical phenomena to at least _occasionally_ be manifested in such a way that the effects could be confirmed. Of course, no one wants to believe that **their** experience was the result of observer error. They usually protest that they examined the evidence closely and the physical explanations proffered are all absurdly unlikely. But again, I ask what I would expect in a physical world. **Of course** the explanation for any bizarre occurrence will be extremely unlikely. If it were a **likely** situation, the phenomenon would happen _all the time_ and no one would mention it on message boards! On the face of it of it, it seems implausible that a mysterious force of nature, unexplainable by quantum physics happened to cause a glass to plummet to the ground at just the moment I nudged it off the table with my elbow, but we accept this explanation because we’ve all seen something like it thousands of times. When similar forces cause a glass to drag across a rough countertop, we freak out–not because the force behind it is mysterious (so is gravity), but because the event itself is so rare. Of course the situation that caused it will be unlikely (or unlikely to produce the event). That’s why you noticed it. If the cause–whether ghosts or air pressure–were common, we’d just shrug our shoulders and say, “There goes another glass!” ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2006, 8:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-believe-in-ghosts/356419/70 "2006-05-12T20:50:36Z")
[QUOTE=Lute Skywatcher] Because the person was awake enough to realize that they need another blanket but not awake enough to pick it up, not until being hit in the face.The other person abosultely cannot see enough to safely get to where the blanket had been.What kind of updraft can move a three pound blanket?God thing nobody’s saying “it was magic” then.You’re not doing a good job proving it was “natural”. [/QUOTE] I don’t have to prove it was natural. That’s the default logical assumption. You’re the one who wants people to think it was magic. The burden of proof is with you. Prove the laws of physics were violated in your bedroom. Like I said, it isn’t really possible to explain a “spooky” anecdote when I have no ability to verify any of the claims or examine any evidence but ANY natural explanation has to be preferred over ANY impossible explanation. “Ghosts” cannot possibly physically exist or move blankets, so that explanation can be dismissed quite readily. ---
**Author:** ![Nic2004](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/4491bb/32.png) [@Nic2004](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nic2004)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2006, 9:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-believe-in-ghosts/356419/71 "2006-05-12T21:01:30Z")
**WARNING** : The Following Statement Is Not Intended As A Blanket Statement. That said, it seems to me over the many years I have observed this phenomenon, it seems that more women have had an “experience” and hold a heart-felt belief in the Supernatural. I don’t think I can recall a woman I have known that doesn’t fit this description but only a small percentage of men. It could well be that fewer men will come clean on deeply held fears than is the case with women. Also, I have had female believers explain it as “Well, everyone knows women are more sensitive to such things” so this may be the case. I wonder that if in the prehistoric past, men were more prone to investigate and confront a “bump in the night”, more so than women. I can relate second-hand some interesting stories from current and former female partners but none of my own. I truly do not wish this to be taken as a sexist tone but in all my years it was I that ventured into the dark with weapon in hand to dispel the boogies. If this has in any way been found offensive to anyone I apologize up front. It’s just a personal observation. **Cowgirl** said > [@](#): > > somewhat historic place that we knew had been occupied by historical assholes, and never a peep. I’d love to hear more about that one. ---
**Author:** ![Alan\_Smithee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/2acd7d/32.png) [@Alan\_Smithee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alan_Smithee)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2006, 9:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-believe-in-ghosts/356419/72 "2006-05-12T21:02:16Z")
[QUOTE=Lute Skywatcher] The other person abosultely cannot see enough to safely get to where the blanket had been. [/QUOTE] Which makes it absurdly unlikey that he did so. Which is not surprising, since as I said, **any** explanation will be absurdly unlikely to have happened, since the event being explained is (as you have described it) absurdly unlikely. I mean, it’s not like blankets seemingly throwing themselves at people’s faces happens **all the time** , is it? What we have to do is find the _least_ absurdly unlikely explanation. If you think a ghost is less unlikely than **any** of the other explanations that have been offered, you and I evaluate the world in shockingly different ways. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2006, 9:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-believe-in-ghosts/356419/73 "2006-05-12T21:07:34Z")
[QUOTE=Alan Smithee] Which makes it absurdly unlikey that he did so. Which is not surprising, since as I said, **any** explanation will be absurdly unlikely to have happened, since the event being explained is (as you have described it) absurdly unlikely. I mean, it’s not like blankets seemingly throwing themselves at people’s faces happens **all the time** , is it? What we have to do is find the _least_ absurdly unlikely explanation. If you think a ghost is less unlikely than **any** of the other explanations that have been offered, you and I evaluate the world in shockingly different ways. [/QUOTE] “How often have I said to you that when you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, _owever improbable_, must be the truth?” –Sherlock Holmes ---
**Author:** ![Alan\_Smithee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/2acd7d/32.png) [@Alan\_Smithee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alan_Smithee)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2006, 9:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-believe-in-ghosts/356419/74 "2006-05-12T21:11:03Z")
LOL! I almost quoted Dirk Gently’s reformulation in order to point out how ridiculous it is. (It is, of course, a satire of mystical thinking.) I completely forgot that there was an original that could be quoted much more succinctly! ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2006, 9:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-believe-in-ghosts/356419/75 "2006-05-12T21:19:06Z")
[QUOTE=Diogenes the Cynic] I don’t have to prove it was natural. That’s the default logical assumption. You’re the one who wants people to think it was magic. [/QUOTE] And you’re the one who wants people to think everything has a natural explanation. I don’t have an explanation that completely fits the situation. Do you? ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2006, 9:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-believe-in-ghosts/356419/76 "2006-05-12T21:26:49Z")
[QUOTE=Lute Skywatcher] And you’re the one who wants people to think everything has a natural explanation. I don’t have an explanation that completely fits the situation. Do you? [/QUOTE] I can’t really examine anything so I can’t offer an explanation. But just because you don’t know why something happened doesn’t mean it must have been magic. I don’t know who threw a blanket at you but I know that physically impossible explanations can be ruled out _a priori_. Why is that such an unreasonable thing to say? If homicide detectives are investigating a murder, should they limit themselves to natural explanations or should they consider ghosts and werewolves as possible suspects as well? ---
**Author:** ![Dunderman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ecb155/32.png) [@Dunderman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dunderman)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2006, 9:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-believe-in-ghosts/356419/77 "2006-05-12T21:28:37Z")
[QUOTE=Lute Skywatcher] And you’re the one who wants people to think everything has a natural explanation. [/QUOTE] Could you name a single _un_natural explanation? Not necessarily for this phenomenon. For anything. ---
**Author:** ![Alan\_Smithee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/2acd7d/32.png) [@Alan\_Smithee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alan_Smithee)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2006, 9:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-believe-in-ghosts/356419/78 "2006-05-12T21:35:52Z")
A wizard did it. ---
**Author:** ![Scissorjack](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c67d28/32.png) [@Scissorjack](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scissorjack)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2006, 9:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-believe-in-ghosts/356419/79 "2006-05-12T21:36:36Z")
[QUOTE=Diogenes the Cynic] “How often have I said to you that when you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, _owever improbable_, must be the truth?” –Sherlock Holmes [/QUOTE] “My dear 'Olmes! Take an aspirate and call me in the morning!”, I ejaculated. ---
**Author:** ![ralph124c](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/8797f3/32.png) [@ralph124c](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ralph124c)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2006, 9:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-believe-in-ghosts/356419/80 "2006-05-12T21:37:26Z")
What puzzles me about ghosts: most stories about them seem to date from hundreds of years ago. Yet, there are more people alive now than ever (and more of them dying). Ghosts OUGHT to be more common NOW than in the past ages. So why aren’t they reported more? Plus, everybody has a digital camera, or camera phone today-why aren’t there more photos of ghosts? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-believe-in-ghosts/356419.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-believe-in-ghosts/356419.md?page=5)