# Do you believe in Ghosts? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [May 11, 2006, 8:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-believe-in-ghosts/356419 "2006-05-11T20:36:30Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2006, 9:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-believe-in-ghosts/356419/81 "2006-05-12T21:38:30Z")
[QUOTE=Diogenes the Cynic] I can’t really examine anything so I can’t offer an explanation. [/quote] You have the facts. Have at 'em. > [@](#): > > - But just because you don’t know why something happened doesn’t mean it must have been magic.\* Again, it’s a good thing that nobody’s saying it was “magic”. > [@](#): > > - I don’t know who threw a blanket at you but I know that physically impossible explanations can be ruled out _a priori_.\* The situation is indeed physically impossible but it did happen. Twice. I honestly have no idea why or how. ---
**Author:** ![elfkin477](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/a9a28c/32.png) [@elfkin477](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elfkin477)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2006, 2:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-believe-in-ghosts/356419/82 "2006-05-13T02:36:17Z")
It depends on what you mean by “ghosts.” If you mean sentient spirit beings that interact with the living and/or their surroundings, then no. It would be wicked neat if they existed, and I love movies and books with that sort of story line, but I don’t believe they really exist. If you mean instead what are sometimes called “residual hauntings,” yes. I believe that it’s _possible_ that a moment in time can be captured, and I suspect that by the end of this century these things will be proven to exist, most likely as a result of electrical or magnetic impulses on the grounds of the haunting that record a small period of time like VHS tape does movies. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2006, 3:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-believe-in-ghosts/356419/83 "2006-05-13T03:15:00Z")
[QUOTE=Lute Skywatcher] You have the facts. [/quote] No, I have an unverifiable anecdote with no hard data or evidence. There’s no way to investigate your claim (or even know that your claim is true), so there’s no possible way that anyone can tell you what happened based on your message board posts alone. > [@](#): > > Again, it’s a good thing that nobody’s saying it was “magic.” If you’re claiming it didn’t have a natural explanation then you’re resorting to magical ones. I’m not going to quibble over semantically vacant distinctions between “magic” and “supernatural.” They’re exactly the same thing. [quote] The situation is indeed physically impossible [/quote Obviously not or it wouldn’t have happened. > [@](#): > > but it did happen. Twice. I honestly have no idea why or how. You don’t know why it happened therefore a ghost did it? :dubious: That’s quite a rigorous investigative method you’ve got there, sir. ---
**Author:** ![Alan\_Smithee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/2acd7d/32.png) [@Alan\_Smithee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alan_Smithee)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2006, 3:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-believe-in-ghosts/356419/84 "2006-05-13T03:47:29Z")
Sorry, I tried to post this earlier, but got caught by the board trouble this evening. [QUOTE=Lute Skywatcher] The situation is indeed physically impossible but it did happen. [/QUOTE] Wait, wait. Now you’re saying that it’s **physically impossible** that the guy in the next room stumbled through and tossed the blanket at you? Physically impossible that you grabbed the blanket unconciously in your sleep and tossed it onto yourself? Physically impossible that you halucinated or dreamed the who thing, or misremembered it? Any one of those things may be very unliely and unsatisfying as an explanation, but none of them is physically impossible. On the other hand, if the entire event as you described it really is **physically impossible** , then the explanation is simple: it didn’t happen. By describing it as physically impossible, you’ve admitted as much yourself, even if you don’t want to believe it. ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2006, 4:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-believe-in-ghosts/356419/85 "2006-05-13T04:38:48Z")
[QUOTE=Diogenes the Cynic] If you’re claiming it didn’t have a natural explanation then you’re resorting to magical ones. I’m not going to quibble over semantically vacant distinctions between “magic” and “supernatural.” They’re exactly the same thing. [/quote] I have _no_ explanation, natural or otherwise. > [@](#): > > \*You don’t know why it happened therefore a ghost did it? :dubious: \* Did I say it was? ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2006, 4:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-believe-in-ghosts/356419/86 "2006-05-13T04:45:00Z")
[QUOTE=Lute Skywatcher] I have _no_ explanation, natural or otherwise.Did I say it was? [/QUOTE] What ARE you trying to suggest happened? For some strange reason, you seem to have a problem with me pointing out the truism that everything has a natural explanation and you appeared to be citing this blanket story as evidence to the contrary. If you’re not claiming it was magic, are you admitting it had a natural explanation. Is there any reason whatsoever not to assume that it did? ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2006, 4:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-believe-in-ghosts/356419/87 "2006-05-13T04:48:24Z")
[QUOTE=Alan Smithee] Wait, wait. Now you’re saying that it’s **physically impossible** that the guy in the next room stumbled through and tossed the blanket at you? [/quote] Yes, it’s physically impossible. This person can_not_ see in the dark well enough to safely negotiate the room and, in fact, prefers to _not_ be in the room with the lights out. > [@](#): > > \*Physically impossible that you grabbed the blanket unconciously in your sleep and tossed it onto yourself? \* The blanket was too far from the bed to randomly pick up without getting out of bed. > [@](#): > > _Physically impossible that you halucinated or dreamed the who thing, or misremembered it?_ This was no dream or hallucination and too simple to be passed off as misremembering. > [@](#): > > _On the other hand, if the entire event as you described it really is **physically impossible** , then the explanation is simple: it didn’t happen. By describing it as physically impossible, you’ve admitted as much yourself, even if you don’t want to believe it._ Easy for you to say. You’re not the one who was hit in the face with a blanket that should have been on the floor. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2006, 4:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-believe-in-ghosts/356419/88 "2006-05-13T04:49:57Z")
You probably did it in your sleep. Whatever it was, it wasn’t magic. ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2006, 5:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-believe-in-ghosts/356419/89 "2006-05-13T05:00:21Z")
[QUOTE=Diogenes the Cynic] What ARE you trying to suggest happened? [/quote] Do you not understand the phrase “I don’t know”? > [@](#): > > _For some strange reason, you seem to have a problem with me pointing out the truism that everything has a natural explanation and you appeared to be citing this blanket story as evidence to the contrary._ I am offering the events as evidence that some things are not easy to explain. > [@](#): > > _If you’re not claiming it was magic, are you admitting it had a natural explanation._ Sorry, neither. I’m not claiming it was magic, nor do I have a natural explanation that fits. > [@](#): > > _Is there any reason whatsoever not to assume that it did?_ Becuase something that should not happen _did_. I can’t explain it and, apparently, neither can you. ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2006, 5:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-believe-in-ghosts/356419/90 "2006-05-13T05:06:44Z")
[QUOTE=Diogenes the Cynic] You probably did it in your sleep. [/quote] I’d buy that if it weren’t for feeling cold due to not having enough blankets. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2006, 5:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-believe-in-ghosts/356419/91 "2006-05-13T05:11:11Z")
[QUOTE=Lute Skywatcher] Do you not understand the phrase “I don’t know”? I am offering the events as evidence that some things are not easy to explain. [/quote] That doesn’t mean that magic is a feasible hypothesis. > [@](#): > > Sorry, neither. I’m not claiming it was magic, nor do I have a natural explanation that fits. It has to be one or the other. It can’t be neither. It was either natural or it was magic. Since magic is impossible. it had to have been natural. > [@](#): > > Becuase something that should not happen _did_. I can’t explain it and, apparently, neither can you. What do you mean by “shouldn’t happen?” Why shouldn’t roommates throw blankets at you? Why can’t you get out of bed and grab them in your sleep? Why can’t you just have a mistaken memory about where the blanket was to begin with? It;s also disingenuous to imply that you’ve proven the existence of magic (or “ghosts” or the “supernatural” or any other undefinable nonsense word you want to insert here) because someone on a message board can’t tell you who threw a blanket at you. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2006, 5:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-believe-in-ghosts/356419/92 "2006-05-13T05:17:00Z")
Lute, is it possible that you or someone else might have placed the blanket at the foot of your bed and that you didn’t notice or forgot. Hypothetically, you might have hooked you feet under them in your sleep and kicked them towards your head. Do you have a shelf near the head of your bed. Maybe it fell on you. Don’t be so sure of your memory and your subjective interpretation of events when you’re half-asleep. We’ve all had the experience of being dead certain about how we remembered something and still being wrong, and a sleepy state of mind can play weird tricks. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2006, 6:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-believe-in-ghosts/356419/93 "2006-05-13T06:06:59Z")
[Moderator Underoos On]I want the both of you to take this debate elsewhere _now_![/Moderator Underoos On] ---
**Author:** ![Jodi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/7feea3/32.png) [@Jodi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jodi)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2006, 6:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-believe-in-ghosts/356419/94 "2006-05-13T06:26:07Z")
No, I don’t believe in ghosts. As a Christian, I believe in some form of afterlife, the “eternal life,” as they say, but I don’t believe in ectoplasmic shades who “haunt” those on earth. I have never experienced a ghostly presence or encounter, but I doubt I would believe the cause was a ghost even if I did. ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2006, 10:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-believe-in-ghosts/356419/95 "2006-05-13T10:11:15Z")
[QUOTE=Czarcasm] [Moderator Underoos On]I want the both of you to take this debate elsewhere _now_![/Moderator Underoos On] [/QUOTE] S’okay. I don’t care enough about the subject to devote a thread to it and **Dio** is so full of assumptions that any meaningful discussion with him is impossibie, rendering any further attempts at communicating on the subject utterly pointless. ::Answering the OP ('bout time, right?)):: I am open to the idea of more things in heaven and Earth that are dreamt of in our current understanding of nature. I have experienced too many weird things to simply dismiss them, and submit that **Dio** hasn’t experienced enough. ---
**Author:** ![Baldwin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/baldwin/32/7264_2.png) [@Baldwin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baldwin)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2006, 1:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-believe-in-ghosts/356419/96 "2006-05-13T13:39:52Z")
_Lute Skywatcher:_ > [@](#): > > Yes, the blanket was moved. Immediately prior to it smaking the person in the face, it had been on the floor. The person never broke contact with the bed untiil after being smacked in the face. Nobody else was in the room. That would be the **half-asleep** person, yes? So you’re describing the reported memory of somebody about something that happened while he was half-asleep? And you’re assuming that a) he’s providing an accurate description of his memories; and b) that the memories he’s describing are an accurate recording of the sensory input he received at the time of the incident? And to buy all this, we have to further assume that you’re accurately relaying the half-asleep person’s statement? (If that person is you, then ignore this part.) And there’s **no** other evidence that the alleged incident actually happened? Gosh, you’re right – clearly the burden of proof is on us. Well, I’m stumped. Bitter indeed is the taste of my failure. ---
**Author:** ![Baldwin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/baldwin/32/7264_2.png) [@Baldwin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baldwin)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2006, 1:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-believe-in-ghosts/356419/97 "2006-05-13T13:45:35Z")
Oh, to answer the OP – No, I don’t believe in ghosts. As a child I was really afraid of them, though; I remember the first time we had a new house built, asking my mother for reassurance that since it was new, nobody had ever been killed there. I still get creeped out sometimes. It’s the human condition that our modern intellects have to live in the same brain with ancient primal instinctive fear reactions that make our hearts pound. Keeps things interesting. If I lived in a house with weird sounds, movements, etc. that I didn’t have a ready explanation, I’d certainly want to find out what caused it, and wouldn’t discount the possibility that it was something previously unknown to science. But jumping to the conclusion that some sort of surviving essence o’ dead people was causing it – that would be silly. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2006, 12:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-believe-in-ghosts/356419/98 "2006-05-14T00:04:06Z")
Can’t say I believe in ghosts but most people will have a story about something they can’t explain. Got 2 of them: One night at a large, well lit intersection I saw a hooded figure walk in front of my car as if it was a reflection. When I looked straight at it, it was gone. I wondered if he had ducked under my car so I literally jumped out of and did a 360 and then looked underneath. If some kid was walking past this deserted intersection then the only way he could have disappeared was to dive headfirst into a ditch. One fall day I was in a recently-cleared lot (site of old mill) next to a house with a history of being haunted (the usual underground railroad urband legend kind of story). I’m not superstitious and didn’t buy into any of it. Anyway, I’m standing next to a guy when the sound of footsteps approaches us in the leaves. No mistaking the gate of a person walking. The sound comes right up to us and stops. There are no animals around (deer populate area). There is nothing around that could reflect sound. We both just looked at each other in a confused state. ---
**Author:** ![Largo62](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/45deac/32.png) [@Largo62](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Largo62)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2006, 12:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-believe-in-ghosts/356419/99 "2006-05-14T00:17:06Z")
I’m a skeptic myself. That said I work in one of only two “officially” haunted houses in California, the Winchester Mystery House. I haven’t seen a ghost myself, but some people who work with me have reported some strange experiences. I’ll reserve judgment until I see something myself, though. ---
**Author:** ![gabriela](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/db5fbb/32.png) [@gabriela](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gabriela)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2006, 1:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-believe-in-ghosts/356419/100 "2006-05-14T01:07:23Z")
OK. It’s mildly offensive, if only for a moment. Maybe your problem is you don’t know me, or any women like me. If you ever find yourself sleeping next to me, and we hear a boogie noise, I’ll go first, and you can either stay in bed or be backup. ’Kay? ’Course you’ll have to shake me awake to tell me there’s a boogie noise, because I don’t hear them. I am quite, entirely, XX-in-every-celledly, female and I do NOT hold a heart-felt belief in the Supernatural. I am in the camp of Alan Smithee as described in this thread. Here’s my opinion: This is a physical world. It’s physically explainable even when we do not know the explanations. I have autopsied close to 3,000 dead bodies, which means I looked into their dead eyes, touched their dead hands, opened them up and handled them inside and out. I have carefully examined maybe 500 more dead bodies which did not need an autopsy. I have been in the room with at a rough guess 6000 more, who were being examined or autopsied by colleagues in multi-gurney rooms. Total count: no ghosts. Zero, zip, nada. Not when I went to bed that night. Not when I came back into the morgue with the lights off late at night. At least a fifth of those bodies were homicide victims, and the vast majority of them died suddenly and alone without anyone around to hear their dying words. Wouldn’t you think they’d want to tell me something? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-believe-in-ghosts/356419.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-believe-in-ghosts/356419.md?page=6)