# Do you believe in past lives? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [January 23, 2013, 7:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-believe-in-past-lives/648137 "2013-01-23T19:02:18Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 14
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2013, 10:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-believe-in-past-lives/648137/262 "2013-02-12T22:42:48Z")
> [@JustSue](#): > > There may not be a difference depending on your meaning…but when people talk of reincarnation, they are normally referring to a direct transformation from one life (incorporated in one body) to another - hence the need for a soul, or spirit, or some other vessel to carry forward in tact. > > I am referring to the transformation of energies - not an intact capsule full of an entire life, or complete set of life memories. The idea that matter and energy are recycled on Earth is meaningless when discussing past lives. Some of the water you drank today was dinosaur piss, what does that have to do with anything? ---
**Author:** ![JustSue](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/b487fb/32.png) [@JustSue](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JustSue)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2013, 10:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-believe-in-past-lives/648137/263 "2013-02-12T22:52:00Z")
So you know…I am not a scientist, and certainly not a physicist. I am just someone who finds the concepts of the transformation of energy (both during life and at or after death) to be a fascinating subject. A couple of the thoughts we have talked about are kenetic energy (please don’t focus on bending spoons across the great divide here) which is energy in motion and the transmission of information through waves like sound energy (waves that travel). ---
**Author:** ![JustSue](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/b487fb/32.png) [@JustSue](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JustSue)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2013, 10:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-believe-in-past-lives/648137/264 "2013-02-12T22:56:01Z")
> [@Lobohan](#): > > The idea that matter and energy are recycled on Earth is meaningless when discussing past lives. > > Some of the water you drank today was dinosaur piss, what does that have to do with anything? I don’t have any reason to answer you if you are going to talk like that. I said from the beginning that I find this concept fascinating. I have friends who discuss their concepts with me on an adult level, and I find it interesting and thought-provoking. We do not make belittle each others’ concepts. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2013, 10:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-believe-in-past-lives/648137/265 "2013-02-12T22:59:33Z")
> [@JustSue](#): > > Thermodynamics is the branch of science dealing with the laws and theories related to energy in the universe. The are two main laws of thermodynamics, the first and second law. > > Energy in our bodies does no just go away. It is transformed. The First Law of Thermodynamics says that energy under normal conditions cannot be created or destroyed, simply transformed from one type of energy to another. Again, that was already discussed in this thread. It’s not relevant to reincarnation or past lives. > [@JustSue](#): > > I am referring to the transformation of energies - not an intact capsule full of an entire life, or complete set of life memories. Whether you’re talking about a whole life or part of one, the basic idea is the same. There’s no evidence, and it’s not related to the laws of thermodynamics. ---
**Author:** ![JustSue](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/b487fb/32.png) [@JustSue](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JustSue)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2013, 11:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-believe-in-past-lives/648137/266 "2013-02-12T23:20:42Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > Again, that was already discussed in this thread. It’s not relevant to reincarnation or past lives. > > Whether you’re talking about a whole life or part of one, the basic idea is the same. There’s no evidence, and it’s not related to the laws of thermodynamics. That is your opinion. Even reincarnation, if it were scientifically possible, would have to do with the laws of thermodynamics, the science of energy in the universe. Unless, of course, it only had to do with a Creator. I find energy transformation as it relates to past lives, highly relevant to the original post. There are many who believe that past lives have left energy behind (that cannot be destroyed) which contains information that impacts current lives today. ---
**Author:** ![brazil84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8491ac/32.png) [@brazil84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brazil84)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2013, 11:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-believe-in-past-lives/648137/267 "2013-02-12T23:27:50Z")
> [@Steener122](#): > > So that got me thinking about past lives in general and if they exist. Do YOU think they exist? . You know, I’m starting to doubt that present lives exist. I mean, the feeling that you are the same person as you were yesterday or even 10 minutes ago might very well be an illusion. Perhaps evolution selected for people who had such a feeling. After all, if you feel that you are the same person as your past and future selves, you are more likely to behave prudently and help your future self to survive and reproduce. And perhaps a side effect of this trait is that it’s easy to believe in past lives. ---
**Author:** ![CurtC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ce73a5/32.png) [@CurtC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CurtC)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2013, 11:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-believe-in-past-lives/648137/268 "2013-02-12T23:28:15Z")
> [@JustSue](#): > > Energy in our bodies does no just go away. It is transformed. When we die, the energy in our bodies is taken up by microbes who eat us. These microbes convert the chemical energy into heat. Or, if you’re cremated, the energy in your body is released as heat directly. Either way, the energy in your body eventually is transformed to heat. Now what has that got to do with past lives? ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2013, 11:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-believe-in-past-lives/648137/269 "2013-02-12T23:41:51Z")
> [@JustSue](#): > > That is your opinion. It is his opinion that there is no evidence? I don’t think so, unless you’ve got some to present to us. Also, would you mind telling us specifically what type of energy you are talking about in regard to reincarnation? That would help us determine what type of equipment to use to measure this transformation you keep referring to. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2013, 1:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-believe-in-past-lives/648137/270 "2013-02-13T01:04:50Z")
> [@JustSue](#): > > That is your opinion. Yes. But I can back mine up with some facts. > [@](#): > > Even reincarnation, if it were scientifically possible, would have to do with the laws of thermodynamics, the science of energy in the universe. How? > [@](#): > > Unless, of course, it only had to do with a Creator. So reincarnation would have to do with the laws of thermodynamics… unless it doesn’t? That doesn’t narrow it down very much. > [@](#): > > There are many who believe that past lives have left energy behind (that cannot be destroyed) which contains information that impacts current lives today. What kind of energy, and what kind of information? You appear to be talking about something vaguely soul-related, which is not what the laws of thermodynamics are about. ---
**Author:** ![JustSue](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/b487fb/32.png) [@JustSue](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JustSue)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2013, 1:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-believe-in-past-lives/648137/271 "2013-02-13T01:12:09Z")
I thought I answered that…kinetic energy. The transformation of stored energy to kinetic energy can take any number of forms - chemical, mechanical, heat - but from stored to “in motion” to transfer any past life information, similar to sound waves perhaps. I said from the beginning that these were my friends’ concepts that I found fascinating. I had no idea I would be pressed to prove their ideas/concepts. The original question was “do you believe in past lives”. I thought it was an opinion that was being sought, not established facts with empirical evidence. I just found, was interested, and joined this forum today. Wow. I guess I’ll have to be more circumspect in the future. My bad. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2013, 1:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-believe-in-past-lives/648137/272 "2013-02-13T01:17:58Z")
> [@JustSue](#): > > I thought I answered that…kinetic energy. The transformation of stored energy to kinetic energy can take any number of forms - chemical, mechanical, heat - but from stored to “in motion” to transfer any past life information, similar to sound waves perhaps. I said from the beginning that these were my friends’ concepts that I found fascinating. I had no idea I would be pressed to prove their ideas/concepts. > > The original question was “do you believe in past lives”. I thought it was an opinion that was being sought, not established facts with empirical evidence. > > I just found, was interested, and joined this forum today. > > Wow. I guess I’ll have to be more circumspect in the future. My bad. Well, this isn’t one of those boards where people throw out unsupported opinions and other posters don’t question those opinions knowing that when _they_ throw out unsupported opinions they’ll be treated the same way-that way lies madness and psychic fairs. On this board we try to find out what’s what, especially in this forum. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2013, 1:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-believe-in-past-lives/648137/273 "2013-02-13T01:20:10Z")
> [@JustSue](#): > > I thought I answered that…kinetic energy. The transformation of stored energy to kinetic energy can take any number of forms - chemical, mechanical, heat - but from stored to “in motion” to transfer any past life information, similar to sound waves perhaps. That’s just not how that works. To quote someone else who addressed this: > [@FinnAgain](#): > > When I lift a book off the ground, kinetic energy is converted into gravitational potential energy. That doesn’t mean that the energy in a living creature in any way, shape, or form ‘lives on’ in the same pattern. Any more than the food you eat remains the same after you’re done digesting it. Nobody’s trying to beat up on you here. Your opinion is welcome. It’s just that saying only ‘I think this’ isn’t very interesting, so then we delve into the why and how. ---
**Author:** ![JustSue](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/b487fb/32.png) [@JustSue](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JustSue)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2013, 2:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-believe-in-past-lives/648137/274 "2013-02-13T02:42:49Z")
Food is stored energy. It is stored in your cells as a chemical with potential energy. When your body uses that stored energy to do work, it becomes kinetic energy. That is the transformation process. When you talk on the phone, your voice is transformed into electrical energy, which passes over wires (or is transmitted through the air). The phone on the other end changes the electrical energy into sound energy through the speaker. In that manner the information is moved by energy from one place to another. That is the “how”. But I don’t think the leap is the transmission of information by kinetic energy. Maybe the leap would be navigating _the time and space between_ the release of the information from the past life and the receipt by the current life through time and space. In the phone example it is pretty immediate, but then there is much data that travels through years of time and space right now that is excrutiatingly slow - according to NASA. Maybe it is isn’t as interesting to you as it is to me, but I think you can’t say that energy doesn’t work that way…because it does. It transforms itself from one form to another to capture, transforms again to move, and transforms again to deliver information. ---
**Author:** ![Latro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/a87d85/32.png) [@Latro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Latro)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2013, 7:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-believe-in-past-lives/648137/275 "2013-02-13T07:26:43Z")
> [@JustSue](#): > > But I don’t think the leap is the transmission of information by kinetic energy. I would say that is quite a leap. What examples do you have of life-forms exchanging energy, except eating that other life-form. > [@](#): > > Maybe the leap would be navigating _the time and space between_ the release of the information from the past life and the receipt by the current life through time and space. Same thing, isn’t it? How would this energy be transferred, by what medium. > [@](#): > > but then there is much data that travels through years of time and space right now that is excrutiatingly slow - according to NASA. Wot? ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2013, 7:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-believe-in-past-lives/648137/276 "2013-02-13T07:58:00Z")
> [@JustSue](#): > > I don’t have any reason to answer you if you are going to talk like that. > > I said from the beginning that I find this concept fascinating. I have friends who discuss their concepts with me on an adult level, and I find it interesting and thought-provoking. We do not make belittle each others’ concepts. Some ideas don’t warrant respect. I respect your right to have your ideas, but the ideas themselves don’t seem that impressive. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2013, 12:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-believe-in-past-lives/648137/277 "2013-02-13T12:53:30Z")
[QUOTE=JustSue;] 16000060]Maybe the leap would be navigating _the time and space between_ the release of the information from the past life and the receipt by the current life through time and space. [/quote] This is not an original idea. The [Quantum Leap](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quantum_Leap) has been explored thoroughly on TV for about 5 years in the 80’s and 90’s. In it’s defense it did win some awards including Emmys and Golden Globes. But no Nobel prizes for science. [QUOTE=JustSue;] 16000060]In the phone example it is pretty immediate, but then there is much data that travels through years of time and space right now that is excrutiatingly slow - according to NASA. [/quote] [Radio waves](http://www.qrg.northwestern.edu/projects/vss/docs/communications/2-why-does-it-take-so-long.html) travel through space at the speed of light. You call that slow? Pretty sure NASA doesn’t consider it slow. In fact they wish they could travel at a 10th of that speed. [QUOTE=JustSue;] 16000060]Maybe it is isn’t as interesting to you as it is to me, but I think you can’t say that energy doesn’t work that way…because it does. It transforms itself from one form to another to capture, transforms again to move, and transforms again to deliver information. [/QUOTE] [On the contrary](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Large_Hadron_Collider). The study of energy and matter are of great interest to science and lay persons in general. But we must be careful not to extrapolate fiction from fact as we learn more and more. So while reasonable people may disagree on what the facts tell us about the universe and everything, reasonable people should not and cannot make usubstantiated claims about life transference and past lives and souls and what have you without some actual supporting evidence. And wishing that it were so or claiming that your opinion is just as valid as any other is just not going to convince anyone. Neither will miss-using actual scientific terms to support an invalid argument. ---
**Author:** ![cosmosdan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a6a055/32.png) [@cosmosdan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cosmosdan)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2013, 2:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-believe-in-past-lives/648137/278 "2013-02-13T14:45:20Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > the energy in our bodies does go away, but that’s because our bodies go away. The energy doesn’t turn into something else or someone else. We don’t know that do we. Especially the somethng else. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2013, 3:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-believe-in-past-lives/648137/279 "2013-02-13T15:07:33Z")
> [@cosmosdan](#): > > We don’t know that do we. Especially the somethng else. We lack evidence for the “something else”. So in that respect we do not know that “something else” happens. ---
**Author:** ![cosmosdan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a6a055/32.png) [@cosmosdan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cosmosdan)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2013, 3:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-believe-in-past-lives/648137/280 "2013-02-13T15:08:18Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Well, this isn’t one of those boards where people throw out unsupported opinions and other posters don’t question those opinions knowing that when _they_ throw out unsupported opinions they’ll be treated the same way-that way lies madness and psychic fairs. On this board we try to find out what’s what, especially in this forum. That’s true and I love the SD because of the guidelines. That said, GD is also a place to discuss God beliefm religion{s} of all sorts. MAybe it’s possible for people who enjoy discuissing those subjects to present certain ideas and theories without posters demanding facts and evidence. If you find those discussions silly , don’t participate. It’s not a discussion of science. If someone is making a factual claim that’s another matter, and I havn’t read the thread, but the title is “Do you beleive ion past lives” a matter of personal belief, not “Is there any evidence of past lives” If it’s not a thread about science , then perhaps we can avoid hijacking it with requests for evidence and scientific analysis. ---
**Author:** ![cosmosdan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a6a055/32.png) [@cosmosdan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cosmosdan)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2013, 3:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-believe-in-past-lives/648137/281 "2013-02-13T15:11:57Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > We lack evidence for the “something else”. So in that respect we do not know that “something else” happens. Sure. It’s wisdom to acknowlede what we don’t know, and see things as mere possibilities rather than truths. There may or may not be something after this life. No problem with those who don’t believe or see any reason to consider it. It’s also okay for others to consider it and enjoy discussing the possibilities. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-believe-in-past-lives/648137.md?page=13) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-believe-in-past-lives/648137.md?page=15)