# Do you believe in past lives? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [January 23, 2013, 7:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-believe-in-past-lives/648137 "2013-01-23T19:02:18Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 22
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2013, 9:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-believe-in-past-lives/648137/422 "2013-02-28T21:05:28Z")
> [@lekatt](#): > > Most of computer activity today does come from an unknown location. The Internet, mainframes, etc. Yeah, that’s not how that works. All of those things have physical locations and sources. We have cloud computing and wireless internet, but they all come from someplace. This is like saying TV is evidence of “non local consciousness” because the signal magically goes from the transmitter to your TV set across town. ---
**Author:** ![lekatt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lekatt/32/7269_2.png) [@lekatt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lekatt)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2013, 12:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-believe-in-past-lives/648137/423 "2013-03-01T00:44:56Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > Yeah, that’s not how that works. All of those things have physical locations and sources. We have cloud computing and wireless internet, but they all come from someplace. This is like saying TV is evidence of “non local consciousness” because the signal magically goes from the transmitter to your TV set across town. There is nothing magical about the spiritual dimension. It has its own laws of operation like anything else. But I don’t want to keep explaining what is not in your world yet. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2013, 12:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-believe-in-past-lives/648137/424 "2013-03-01T00:52:07Z")
> [@lekatt](#): > > There is nothing magical about the spiritual dimension. It has its own laws of operation like anything else. But I don’t want to keep explaining what is not in your world yet. But in your world, you’re like an Albert Schweitzer, right? ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2013, 1:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-believe-in-past-lives/648137/425 "2013-03-01T01:33:44Z")
> [@lekatt](#): > > There is nothing magical about the spiritual dimension. It has its own laws of operation like anything else. But I don’t want to keep explaining what is not in your world yet. Don’t worry: you haven’t explained anything. ---
**Author:** ![TimeWinder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bcef8e/32.png) [@TimeWinder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TimeWinder)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2013, 1:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-believe-in-past-lives/648137/426 "2013-03-01T01:35:54Z")
> [@lekatt](#): > > The brain does rely on consciousness which is non-local and shown to be so by research. I really don’t suppose there’s much point in asking you to actually produce links to such research? ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2013, 1:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-believe-in-past-lives/648137/427 "2013-03-01T01:44:18Z")
> [@Polar\_Iceman](#): > > CurtC: Your analogy is right on point. The computer hardware is useless without the application software. So where did the software come from, and how was it installed? I’m a computer designer, so I can answer this one. First, it is not true that computers are useless without application software. In the good old days they came with basically nothing - and you wrote it yourself - just like a child learning. But today even the bare hardware comes with a bunch of prewired firmware in ROMs and stuff. My old PDP-11 came with a boot loader in firmware, now there is tons of stuff. That corresponds to evolution pre-wiring the brain, because it is damn useful for any newborn to be able to do more than sit like a lump. Tiny puppies know how to eat, for instance. As we grow each of us gets different experiences and learning, just like each computer probably has a slightly different set of programs over its life. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2013, 2:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-believe-in-past-lives/648137/428 "2013-03-01T02:50:50Z")
> [@Polar\_Iceman](#): > > CurtC: Your analogy is right on point. The computer hardware is useless without the application software. So where did the software come from, and how was it installed? Evolution. Hundreds of millions of years of evolution selecting for useful genetically derived pre-programming. > [@Polar\_Iceman](#): > > Surely you jest! > > “We don’t know the details yet…!” > > This is the best you can do? And you wonder why I despair of the future of science! > > So, these scientists that are studying consciousness: have they come up with a mechanism that explains consciousness; or are they assuming a mechanism, and then basing their speculations on that assumption? > > If you read the literature, you will find that it is the latter. This is classic “God of the Gaps” reasoning. We don’t know the details of how consciousness works yet, therefore it must be _Magic!_ :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![monavis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e0b2c6/32.png) [@monavis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monavis)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2013, 1:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-believe-in-past-lives/648137/429 "2013-03-02T13:32:37Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Unfortunately, phrases like this one give an opening for woo thinking, i.e. “If life leaves the body, it must go _somewhere_”. I prefer “Death is when life stops.” My purpose is to ask if a soul goes some where then where does life go? and where would the life go, or be different than a soul in an animal or plant? ---
**Author:** ![lekatt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lekatt/32/7269_2.png) [@lekatt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lekatt)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2013, 2:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-believe-in-past-lives/648137/430 "2013-03-02T14:54:11Z")
> [@monavis](#): > > My purpose is to ask if a soul goes some where then where does life go? and where would the life go, or be different than a soul in an animal or plant? Heaven, Nirvana, Valhalla, the Spirit World all name the place souls are created, and to which they return when finished with the physical world. We were created in the spirit world and come into the physical to learn about ourselves. In the spirit world there are no good and evil, hot and cold, light and dark, etc. We come into the physical to gain knowledge of what and who we are. Here there are comparisons to help us. This is the world of duality. All things have souls or spirits. They go were we do but have different levels. I know there will be much trashing of this, but I saw it personally. It is perfect logic. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2013, 3:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-believe-in-past-lives/648137/431 "2013-03-02T15:24:56Z")
This is fairytale nonsense. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2013, 3:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-believe-in-past-lives/648137/432 "2013-03-02T15:58:58Z")
> [@lekatt](#): > > Heaven, Nirvana, Valhalla, the Spirit World all name the place souls are created, and to which they return when finished with the physical world. We were created in the spirit world and come into the physical to learn about ourselves. In the spirit world there are no good and evil, hot and cold, light and dark, etc. We come into the physical to gain knowledge of what and who we are. Here there are comparisons to help us. This is the world of duality. All things have souls or spirits. They go were we do but have different levels. I know there will be much trashing of this, but I saw it personally. It is perfect logic. Do you understand the difference between fact and opinion? ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2013, 8:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-believe-in-past-lives/648137/433 "2013-03-02T20:00:29Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > This is fairytale nonsense. On first glance I thought that post began “Heaven, Vanilla,” and it makes just as much sense that way. ---
**Author:** ![lekatt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lekatt/32/7269_2.png) [@lekatt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lekatt)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2013, 9:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-believe-in-past-lives/648137/434 "2013-03-02T21:36:16Z")
It would not be expected to make sense to those who have not seen. “Blessed are those who have not seen yet believe.” – Jesus ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2013, 9:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-believe-in-past-lives/648137/435 "2013-03-02T21:52:11Z")
> [@lekatt](#): > > It would not be expected to make sense to those who have not seen. > > “Blessed are those who have not seen yet believe.” – Jesus “…for they shall receive the Brooklyn Bridge.”–Czarcasm ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2013, 9:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-believe-in-past-lives/648137/436 "2013-03-02T21:54:59Z")
I like that version. Unlike this other stuff, it makes sense. ---
**Author:** ![Polar\_Iceman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Polar\_Iceman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polar_Iceman)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2013, 4:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-believe-in-past-lives/648137/437 "2013-03-03T04:05:56Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > a) Don’t call him Shirley. > > b) Future of science, based on past performance, seems quite bright. In fact, it’s the only thing that’s dragging humanity out of ignorance, despite all the kicking and screaming. > > c) There is no shame in saying, “We don’t yet have all the answers, but we’ll keep looking”. It shows humility. Saying science has failed because it doesn’t have all the answers and offering an explanation for which there is no evidence is opportunistic and arrogant. I assume that you have not been following this thread in its entirety, or you would have recognized the irony of your post. For one thing, nobody has said science has failed; what has been said it that the quality of scientists and the work they produce has gone into a steady decline. On the points raised in this thread, I have been saying from the beginning that the answer to the questions posed here lies in more research. However, the most vocal voices opposing more research are the cheerleaders for science. These cheerleaders are the ones who push the belief that “science” already has all the answers, and “nothing to see here”. It is the cheerleaders who push the belief that “we don’t have the answers” but “we know that we are right” constitutes an adequate response to the fundamental questions of biology, while vehemently refusing to even consider any hypothesis that challenges their cherished view of the world. In other words, in this thread, it is the cheerleaders for science who are the most anti-scientific. I have noticed that as the discussion has progressed, the screams of “nothing to see here” from the cheerleaders are becoming more shrill. In fact they remind me a lot of a religious cult whose members are going into a panic as their cherished beliefs are more and more being exposed to ridicule. It is the supreme irony that “science” has taken on many of the characteristics of a fundamentalist religious cult. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2013, 6:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-believe-in-past-lives/648137/438 "2013-03-03T06:06:46Z")
> [@Polar\_Iceman](#): > > I assume that you have not been following this thread in its entirety, or you would have recognized the irony of your post. > > For one thing, nobody has said science has failed; what has been said it that the quality of scientists and the work they produce has gone into a steady decline. Really? I haven’t noticed anyone actually saying this, but if they have perhaps they can give some evidence for it. > [@](#): > > On the points raised in this thread, I have been saying from the beginning that the answer to the questions posed here lies in more research. However, the most vocal voices opposing more research are the cheerleaders for science. > > These cheerleaders are the ones who push the belief that “science” already has all the answers, and “nothing to see here”. > > It is the cheerleaders who push the belief that “we don’t have the answers” but “we know that we are right” constitutes an adequate response to the fundamental questions of biology, while vehemently refusing to even consider any hypothesis that challenges their cherished view of the world. > > In other words, in this thread, it is the cheerleaders for science who are the most anti-scientific. Given limits on money available for science, research only gets funded if there is some reasonable chance that something will come of it. Given the zero useful results from spiritual “research” funded by things like SPR, this isn’t likely. Even more telling, the research that has been done on the brain, which should reveal some soul-like stuff, is actually finding physical tie-ins with more and more mental states, like empathy. You think consciousness is a fundamental question of biology? Given the complexity of the brain, and the difficulty of getting access, it is hardly surprising we don’t have an answer yet. It is hard enough to figure out what is going on inside a chip, even when we have full schematics and can drill holes in it without worrying about malpractice suits. And the most complex chip is still much simpler than the brain, and more cleanly designed. ---
**Author:** ![monavis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e0b2c6/32.png) [@monavis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monavis)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2013, 12:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-believe-in-past-lives/648137/439 "2013-03-03T12:57:59Z")
> [@lekatt](#): > > Heaven, Nirvana, Valhalla, the Spirit World all name the place souls are created, and to which they return when finished with the physical world. We were created in the spirit world and come into the physical to learn about ourselves. In the spirit world there are no good and evil, hot and cold, light and dark, etc. We come into the physical to gain knowledge of what and who we are. Here there are comparisons to help us. This is the world of duality. All things have souls or spirits. They go were we do but have different levels. I know there will be much trashing of this, but I saw it personally. It is perfect logic. It is your belief not a fact,you have no proof so until you do. it is a moot answer. A person can have a personal dream,or hallucination, but that doesn’t make it a fact, You want this to be true, so you accept your own thinking as the whole truth, that is how I see it. It wasn’t so long ago you were worried sick about Demons running everything, It looks like you want a dream to be true or a thought you have, and if that is a help to you then keep it,but I doubt that it has any weight with anyone ( or very few others who would like it to be true).Because you think it is logical doesn’t make it so. ---
**Author:** ![monavis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e0b2c6/32.png) [@monavis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monavis)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2013, 1:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-believe-in-past-lives/648137/440 "2013-03-03T13:03:39Z")
> [@lekatt](#): > > It would not be expected to make sense to those who have not seen. > > “Blessed are those who have not seen yet believe.” – Jesus You don’t know if Jesus really said that ;it was written by someone who said he said it. And that is no proof either. It is true there are people who are happy in not knowing the truth (which I was taught that Blessed means happy). A child is Happy to believe that Santa will bring him/her toys,and some like one of my grandchildren was angry at her parents for lying to her about there being a Santa Clause. ---
**Author:** ![lekatt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lekatt/32/7269_2.png) [@lekatt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lekatt)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2013, 1:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-believe-in-past-lives/648137/441 "2013-03-03T13:30:55Z")
> [@monavis](#): > > It is your belief not a fact,you have no proof so until you do. it is a moot answer. A person can have a personal dream,or hallucination, but that doesn’t make it a fact, You want this to be true, so you accept your own thinking as the whole truth, that is how I see it. It wasn’t so long ago you were worried sick about Demons running everything, It looks like you want a dream to be true or a thought you have, and if that is a help to you then keep it,but I doubt that it has any weight with anyone ( or very few others who would like it to be true).Because you think it is logical doesn’t make it so. I don’t believe you are really interested even though you ask questions. If you wanted to know you would read the research. By the way you can’t know God does not exist. People who say they are atheists are only guessing. It is a strange world. People do know what they experience and I am sure you believe what you experience. But all will find out in the future, some take longer than others. But now it is hopeless. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-believe-in-past-lives/648137.md?page=21) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-believe-in-past-lives/648137.md?page=23)