# Do you believe mandatory abortion should be a legally enforceable contractual clause? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [March 12, 2013, 2:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-believe-mandatory-abortion-should-be-a-legally-enforceable-contractual-clause/652706 "2013-03-12T14:12:23Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 8\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![EverwonderWhy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ee59a6/32.png) [@EverwonderWhy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EverwonderWhy)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2013, 8:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-believe-mandatory-abortion-should-be-a-legally-enforceable-contractual-clause/652706/61 "2013-03-14T20:19:30Z")
> [@simster](#): > > I haven’t voted - IIRC this specific case - based on the laws in play for the surrogacy - the unborn infant was actually the ‘property’ of the biological parents - not the surrogate. I believe what makes this situation so tricky is that in Conneticut (where the intended parents and surrogate all lived) the intended parents have the parental rights. In Michegan where the surrogate fled to, the surrogate has parental rights. The surrogate deliberately fled to Michegan because the laws were in her favor. It is also really hard to determine “property rights” of biological material like zygotes/embryos/fetuses once they are implanted in someone else’s biology. Even after birth, no parent necessarily ‘owns’ their children, they have parental rights and guardianship. Genetic parenthood doesn’t necessarily confer parental rights pre-birth. Think about a pregnant women who is seeking an abortion - the genetic sperm donor could not prevent her from aborting or having a baby, even though half his genetic material is involved. ---
**Author:** ![Enkel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/df705f/32.png) [@Enkel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Enkel)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2013, 8:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-believe-mandatory-abortion-should-be-a-legally-enforceable-contractual-clause/652706/62 "2013-03-14T20:54:32Z")
> [@delphica](#): > > This is not my understanding at all. The age of the _egg_ is a medical issue. **Age of the surrogate is not so much of a factor if using a donor egg.** I am sure there is some upper limit of age where the medical procedures involved with surrogacy might pose additional risks to an older person, but I don’t know what that is. Not the 30s, though. The surrogate’s age doesn’t have anything to do with the egg. All genetic material is coming from the parents who are letting out the contract. From talking to two local woman who did surrogacy through an agency as a part time job, the first baby pays a sort of set fee that is slightly low (because you could flake out and try to keep the baby). Once you’ve proven that you’re not a nutcase, the fees are higher (because the contracting parents have better assurance that you don’t run around stoned and drunk, then try to run off with their child). The fees stay really nice until you hit 30yo. At 30yo+ you’re beyond prime child bearing years (for a surrogate) and IF you get a contract it will be either with someone who’s looking for a proven producer at a reduced cost OR (potentially) a prior client who wants to stick with the same surrogate through all of their children. Surrogate contracts to someone over 35 is not likely to happen. At that point, it’s time to find another revenue stream. It isn’t that women can’t have viable babies at advanced ages (e.g. 30+ or ever 40+) it is a matter of who the Parents are going to choose to contract with for their child. There is a very active agency in my area and some women put off their own kids in order to do surrogate kids first (while the pay is good). There are just too many under 30yo options out there for parents, so they’re not likely to contract with someone who’s older. ---
**Author:** ![delphica](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e9a140/32.png) [@delphica](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/delphica)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2013, 9:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-believe-mandatory-abortion-should-be-a-legally-enforceable-contractual-clause/652706/63 "2013-03-14T21:03:53Z")
> [@Enkel](#): > > The surrogate’s age doesn’t have anything to do with the egg. All genetic material is coming from the parents who are letting out the contract. Ah, we’re saying the same thing here about the egg. Maybe the issue of age of the surrogate varies by region. In my area, I’ve heard of women in their 30s and even 40s sought after as successful surrogates in some part because they’re viewed as more mature and stable – maybe less likely to run off with a baby. Women who already have their own children are often seen as desirable surrogates because they have experience with being pregnant. (I’m not saying statistics would show women in their 30s and 40s are more mature or stable, or better equipped to handle pregnancy issues, only that they are _perceived_ as being so, at least by some segment of market) ---
**Author:** ![Nawth\_Chucka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/c57346/32.png) [@Nawth\_Chucka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nawth_Chucka)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2013, 9:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-believe-mandatory-abortion-should-be-a-legally-enforceable-contractual-clause/652706/64 "2013-03-14T21:09:29Z")
> [@Enkel](#): > > The surrogate’s age doesn’t have anything to do with the egg. All genetic material is coming from the parents who are letting out the contract. > > From talking to two local woman who did surrogacy through an agency as a part time job, the first baby pays a sort of set fee that is slightly low (because you could flake out and try to keep the baby). Once you’ve proven that you’re not a nutcase, the fees are higher (because the contracting parents have better assurance that you don’t run around stoned and drunk, then try to run off with their child). The fees stay really nice until you hit 30yo. > > At 30yo+ you’re beyond prime child bearing years (for a surrogate) and IF you get a contract it will be either with someone who’s looking for a proven producer at a reduced cost OR (potentially) a prior client who wants to stick with the same surrogate through all of their children. > > Surrogate contracts to someone over 35 is not likely to happen. At that point, it’s time to find another revenue stream. > > It isn’t that women can’t have viable babies at advanced ages (e.g. 30+ or ever 40+) it is a matter of who the Parents are going to choose to contract with for their child. There is a very active agency in my area and some women put off their own kids in order to do surrogate kids first (while the pay is good). There are just too many under 30yo options out there for parents, so they’re not likely to contract with someone who’s older. Enkel, I don’t know if the surrogates you talked to are you having you on or where you live, but this all runs counter to the experiences of the surrogates at the surrogacy [board](http://www.surromomsonline.com/support/forum.php)I’ve frequented since 2008. A) Experienced gestational surrogates can command more compensation not b/c it’s confirmed they can surrender the baby but b/c it’s confirmed they will take detailed and specific medical protocol as prescribed to develop their uterus for a successful embryo transfer and maintain the pg; the shots, pills and suppositories required are taken for months and if done incorrectly can jeopardize a cycle, a transfer or a pg, each of them costing thousands of dollars. If someone’s done the job well before, yes, they can ask for a higher compensation. B) The woman who chooses to attempt surrogacy before having children of her own does so at the risk of her own fertility. One cycle can go wrong and a woman may never have children again. It is also HIGHLY unlikely an agency would hire a surrogate who had never given birth before; she would not have proven fertility and that’s like hiring someone to transcribe your novel when they’ve never used a computer before. Only the most desperate agency or parents would work w/ someone who hadn’t delivered a baby before. C) Lastly, there are successful and well-compensated gestational surrogates in their 40’s. Take some time to read around that message board and you’ll see that these pervasive myths about gestational surrogacy are just that. Now, traditional surrogacy, where the surrogate donates her own egg to the process is a whole other ballgame. But the only difference that comes into play there is the maternal age; everything else is just as wrong. ---
**Author:** ![Peremensoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ce7236/32.png) [@Peremensoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peremensoe)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2013, 9:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-believe-mandatory-abortion-should-be-a-legally-enforceable-contractual-clause/652706/65 "2013-03-14T21:17:24Z")
> [@Enkel](#): > > Don’t they have a right to say that they don’t want that sort of life for their child? And, it was their child until the surrogate ran to a different state. No. The fetus was in her; it doesn’t matter how it got there or what its genetic background was. A woman’s rights in her pregnancy are absolute and unimpeachable. Her body, period. ---
**Author:** ![Enkel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/df705f/32.png) [@Enkel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Enkel)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2013, 12:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-believe-mandatory-abortion-should-be-a-legally-enforceable-contractual-clause/652706/66 "2013-03-15T00:24:54Z")
> [@Nawth\_Chucka](#): > > Enkel, I don’t know if the surrogates you talked to are you having you on or where you live, but this all runs counter to the experiences of the surrogates at the surrogacy [board](http://www.surromomsonline.com/support/forum.php)I’ve frequented since 2008. Maybe it has something to do with the way the agency markets their services. I’m not deeply involved, these are just women that I talked to at softball games over the course of a couple summers. ---
**Author:** ![StGermain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stgermain/32/2868_2.png) [@StGermain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/StGermain)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2013, 1:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-believe-mandatory-abortion-should-be-a-legally-enforceable-contractual-clause/652706/67 "2013-03-15T01:25:48Z")
I am pro-life, and yet I think the woman should be required to return all money paid to her (with the exception of the medical bills incurred to that point). I do not agree that the woman should be forced to have an abortion, because I am of the opinion that abortion should be illegal. StG ---
**Author:** ![Nawth\_Chucka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/c57346/32.png) [@Nawth\_Chucka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nawth_Chucka)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2013, 1:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-believe-mandatory-abortion-should-be-a-legally-enforceable-contractual-clause/652706/68 "2013-03-15T01:38:34Z")
> [@Enkel](#): > > Maybe it has something to do with the way the agency markets their services. I’m not deeply involved, these are just women that I talked to at softball games over the course of a couple summers. Considering the agencies are very much for-profit, that’s certainly possible! [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-believe-mandatory-abortion-should-be-a-legally-enforceable-contractual-clause/652706.md?page=3)