# Do you believe most Americans are stupid? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [September 9, 2008, 1:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-believe-most-americans-are-stupid/462717 "2008-09-09T01:29:26Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Pyper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Pyper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pyper)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2008, 4:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-believe-most-americans-are-stupid/462717/21 "2008-09-09T04:49:34Z")
While many Americans can be stunningly ignorant, I lived in Spain and found many Spaniards to be stunningly ignorant. (Sorry, Spanish dopers! You’re a wonderful people!) In my experience, Americans are actually _more_ knowledgeable of foreign countries and cultures than many other groups as a function of immigration and America’s place on the world stage. ---
**Author:** ![Gorgonzola](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e480ec/32.png) [@Gorgonzola](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gorgonzola)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2008, 5:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-believe-most-americans-are-stupid/462717/22 "2008-09-09T05:25:17Z")
> [@EddyTeddyFreddy](#): > > Obama’s using what I think is a brilliant rhetorical tactic lately. [Here’s one YouTubed example.](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TVWuZE-OPgQ) First he runs through a litany of how McCain = Bush on policy after policy. Then he hammers the McCain and Palin lies, e.g., Bridge to Nowhere, “She was for it before she was against it.” Then: "I mean, you can’t just make stuff up. You can’t just recreate yourself. You can’t just reinvent yourself. _The American people aren’t stupid."_ From there he runs in summary form through all the ways he’s for change, has been for change consistently, in a crescendo of passion climaxing in his fiery “And that’s why I’m running for President of the United States!” peroration. > > The pivot from their falsehoods and flip-flops to his steadfast adherence to a coherent set of positions is the message: “You, the American people, _you’re not stupid._ You can see through the crap. You can see who’s phony and who’s genuine.” He’s not just calling his opponents liars; he’s praising the perspicacity of his listeners, he’s making them feel smart and discerning and no fools when it comes to seeing through a load of bull, while stoking resentment at the McCain ticket for treating them like idiots. > > Maybe I’m wrong, but I think it’s a masterful bit of rhetoric (no matter what opinion you may hold of the public’s intelligence). Being “for change consistently” is at best a non-message (“Whatever you don’t like? Oh, yeah, we’ll change that! Because you know, we _invented_ change!” – hmm yes and my generation invented intercourse) and at worst a cheap carnival tactic when approval ratings for the incumbent run almost but not quite as low as the full scale IQ score necessary to come up with that sort of masterful rhetoric. ---
**Author:** ![Indistinguishable](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/90ced4/32.png) [@Indistinguishable](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Indistinguishable)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2008, 5:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-believe-most-americans-are-stupid/462717/23 "2008-09-09T05:30:09Z")
> [@sailor](#): > > What I find truly appalling is that no one so far in this thread knows the difference between the average and the median. Well, the median is one kind of average, arithmetic mean being but another; however, given the nature of intelligence, while it is dubious to begin with to assume it to be a linearly ordinal quantity, even granting that, it is yet more dubious to suppose it to be significantly cardinal, so as to allow calculation of the latter. Thus, it is not so unreasonable to suppose that when one speaks of average intelligence, one means thereby to use the median. (Though, I don’t think that’s what these people are doing. Rather, they _are_ thinking of intelligence as a cardinal quantity, if they consider such details at all, but also presuppose its distribution to be symmetric, thus identifying the mean and median) I have no further contribution to this thread. ---
**Author:** ![Lakai](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/9de0a6/32.png) [@Lakai](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lakai)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2008, 6:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-believe-most-americans-are-stupid/462717/24 "2008-09-09T06:01:39Z")
> [@sailor](#): > > Listen to any random conversation between two people and they are talking rubbish. Boring, uninteresting rubbish. I am sure when I am talking about my plan to solve the world’s problems, end all wars, erradicate corruption from the government, etc. people who might hear me can’t believe the utter, boring, crap I am talking about. They would rather be talking about their kid who is the cutest kid in the world. Exactly, most will worry about things they have control over, unlike national politics. Conversations about how to change the world are reserved those special people sitting in coffee shops across America. Those middle class young adults who have no problems, but have lots of time and energy. It is usually these people that get the country back on course after everyone else stopped caring about where it was going. The politically inclined half (maybe less) of America will always have to pick up the slack for those who don’t closely follow politics. Things will get wonky, but at least we have enough people watching to scream if things start to get really bad. I think the rest of the country is smart enough to understand that bad things are happening when they’re pointed out to them, but not smart enough to figure it out on their own. ---
**Author:** ![Grumman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/43a26b/32.png) [@Grumman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grumman)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2008, 6:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-believe-most-americans-are-stupid/462717/25 "2008-09-09T06:10:31Z")
> [@Birdmonster](#): > > So then, the rub: Do you believe most Americans are stupid? There is at least a vocal minority that I would consider stupid and/or insane. > [@](#): > > If so, what do you base this belief on, beyond the fact their opinion differs from yours? There are people I disagree with, and then there are people I disagree with whose line of reasoning is completely alien. ---
**Author:** ![Sophistry\_and\_Illusion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b3f665/32.png) [@Sophistry\_and\_Illusion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sophistry_and_Illusion)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2008, 6:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-believe-most-americans-are-stupid/462717/26 "2008-09-09T06:20:52Z")
First, average intelligence isn’t very smart. Face it; humans may be the smartest animals on the planet, and the smartest humans are very smart, but average human intelligence is, in absolute terms, not great. Second, [humans are wired to think irrationally about political issues.](http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/11009379/) And as has been pointed out in other threads (I think \*\*Sam Stone \*\*made this point in the why is the media the suXX0r thread), the profusion of political blogs, etc., means people can (and do) just choose to go places where their views are reinforced. So their ignorance is reinforced and rewarded, seldom challenged. ---
**Author:** ![robby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robby/32/11048_2.png) [@robby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/robby)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2008, 12:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-believe-most-americans-are-stupid/462717/27 "2008-09-09T12:40:56Z")
> [@sailor](#): > > What I find truly appalling is that no one so far in this thread knows the difference between the average and the median. I was planning to say the same thing, but you beat me to it. ---
**Author:** ![Dinsdale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/97f17d/32.png) [@Dinsdale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dinsdale)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2008, 1:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-believe-most-americans-are-stupid/462717/28 "2008-09-09T13:14:49Z")
**Stupid** is such a loaded word. I have no reason to believe Americans are any more or less “stupid” than any other humans. I do, however, think that a huge percentage of Americans lack curiosity, as well as critical thinking and planning skills. They seem to believe they are inherently and perpetually entitled to a more comfortable standard of living than the majority of the globe. Moreover, the historical power and safety of the US has encouraged a great many Americans to be quite critical of other countries, while blindly defending US actions. Finally, a majority of Americans seem extremely interested in consumption with little regard to the costs, and seem allergic to most forms of sacrifice or self restraint. ---
**Author:** ![Critical1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/3e96dc/32.png) [@Critical1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Critical1)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2008, 1:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-believe-most-americans-are-stupid/462717/29 "2008-09-13T01:35:16Z")
ignorance combined with lack of critical thinking ability is the shortest way for me to sum it up. from a conversation I had with a student and her parents. (she initiated it by asking who I wanted to win the upcoming election then gave her choice instead of waiting for my answer) McCain was her choice, so I asked her why hes the christian candidate, Obama isnt hes anti abortion, Obama isnt hes willing to keep fighting the war on terror in Iraq. I coulndt pass on all of that so I asked her if McCain is a christian candidate what has he done thats so christian to prove that? besides cheat on his wife. no answer what do you think he will do about abortion? she of course thought he would try to make it illegal again, I pointed out that there is absolutely no chance that abortion will ever be made illegal in Americas current society and that McCain can say all he wants about it but the truth is hes just talking to say things you want to hear and then the war in Iraq…the one about terrorism? yeah I had to infor both her and her parents that according to every investigation conducted by both our government and those of other countries there IS NO CONNECTION BETWEEN IRAQ AND TERRORISM. Bush lied. you were lied to, if you think I am lying to you now Google it and read the report for yourself. I aint trying to say Obama is some kind of angel, I am not trying to sway opinions here I just want you to turn your brain into the ON position before you go and vote for 4 more years hell. ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2008, 1:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-believe-most-americans-are-stupid/462717/30 "2008-09-13T01:37:55Z")
> [@Critical1](#): > > ignorance combined with lack of critical thinking ability is the shortest way for me to sum it up. > > from a conversation I had with a student and her parents. > (she initiated it by asking who I wanted to win the upcoming election then gave her choice instead of waiting for my answer) > > McCain was her choice, so I asked her why > hes the christian candidate, Obama isnt > hes anti abortion, Obama isnt > hes willing to keep fighting the war on terror in Iraq. > > I coulndt pass on all of that so I asked her if McCain is a christian candidate what has he done thats so christian to prove that? besides cheat on his wife. no answer > what do you think he will do about abortion? she of course thought he would try to make it illegal again, I pointed out that there is absolutely no chance that abortion will ever be made illegal in Americas current society and that McCain can say all he wants about it but the truth is hes just talking to say things you want to hear > > and then the war in Iraq…the one about terrorism? yeah I had to infor both her and her parents that according to every investigation conducted by both our government and those of other countries there IS NO CONNECTION BETWEEN IRAQ AND TERRORISM. Bush lied. you were lied to, if you think I am lying to you now Google it and read the report for yourself. > I aint trying to say Obama is some kind of angel, I am not trying to sway opinions here I just want you to turn your brain into the ON position before you go and vote for 4 more years hell. Have you some antipathy to capital letters and punctuation, like e.e. cummings? ---
**Author:** ![Critical1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/3e96dc/32.png) [@Critical1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Critical1)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2008, 1:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-believe-most-americans-are-stupid/462717/31 "2008-09-13T01:45:09Z")
> [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > Have you some antipathy to capital letters and punctuation, like e.e. cummings? not sure if its like e.e. cummings or not but yeah, english in general gets on my nerves and its even worse with a wrist brace making you miss type all over hell and back ---
**Author:** ![Chief\_Pedant](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a6a055/32.png) [@Chief\_Pedant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chief_Pedant)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2008, 1:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-believe-most-americans-are-stupid/462717/32 "2008-09-13T01:45:58Z")
If we are stupid we have certainly bumbled our way into creating a pretty darn good place to live. More folks clawing to get in than out. There are days when I’m convinced we’re wrecking the place but somehow I haven’t been persuaded any other nation has done as good a job with such a heterogeneous population. ---
**Author:** ![A\_shameful\_cracka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ebca7d/32.png) [@A\_shameful\_cracka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/A_shameful_cracka)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2008, 1:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-believe-most-americans-are-stupid/462717/33 "2008-09-13T01:46:07Z")
Well, half of them have to be less intelligent than average, right? And average isn’t very bright. (yes, I know the difference between average and median, but they aren’t that different in this case) ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2008, 1:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-believe-most-americans-are-stupid/462717/34 "2008-09-13T01:48:58Z")
> [@TWDuke](#): > > Everyone is stupid, in their own way. His own way. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2008, 1:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-believe-most-americans-are-stupid/462717/35 "2008-09-13T01:51:20Z")
A sidenote, but since it was brought up, statistically as intelligence grows people’s politics move right. ---
**Author:** ![gaffa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e68b1a/32.png) [@gaffa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gaffa)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2008, 2:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-believe-most-americans-are-stupid/462717/36 "2008-09-13T02:00:40Z")
> [@A\_shameful\_cracka](#): > > Well, half of them have to be less intelligent than average, right? And average isn’t very bright. **American Splendor:** _Average! Man, average is dumb!_ ---
**Author:** ![gaffa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e68b1a/32.png) [@gaffa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gaffa)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2008, 2:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-believe-most-americans-are-stupid/462717/37 "2008-09-13T02:04:40Z")
> [@Sage\_Rat](#): > > A sidenote, but since it was brought up, statistically as intelligence grows people’s politics move right. You’ll have to provide a cite for that one. \* I never meant to say that the Conservatives are generally stupid. I meant to say that stupid people are generally Conservative. I believe that is so obviously and universally admitted a principle that I hardly think any gentleman will deny it.\* - John Stuart Mill ---
**Author:** ![Phlosphr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c68b51/32.png) [@Phlosphr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Phlosphr)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2008, 2:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-believe-most-americans-are-stupid/462717/38 "2008-09-13T02:06:59Z")
\*\*American Splendor \*\*- I don’t know _HARVEY_, do you think your a _ **Nerd** _? Anyway. Some people need to start giving some cites here or chill out with the statistically this statistically that talk. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![diggleblop](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ac91a4/32.png) [@diggleblop](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/diggleblop)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2008, 2:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-believe-most-americans-are-stupid/462717/39 "2008-09-13T02:07:59Z")
I think Americans are lazy mostly. I also think the ones who have the power to make change are greedy and selfish. Stupid? Well, drive on the Beltway here in DC and you’ll see stupid. Trust me. ---
**Author:** ![BrainFireBob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e495f1/32.png) [@BrainFireBob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainFireBob)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2008, 2:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-believe-most-americans-are-stupid/462717/40 "2008-09-13T02:11:12Z")
J.R.R. Tolkien: Most folks are smart enough on their own ground. Corrolary: They are not smart enough off their own ground, yes? Someone wise once told me that not everyone has the luxury to consider everything in depth. She was right. Everyone, no matter how bright, uses heuristic algorithms in their decision-making process. So, is that wrong? At what cost does it become right or wrong- either way? It’s a decision we each make. If you mean stupid in the sense of “lacking in intelligence,” we must first define intelligence. The ability to solve problems quickly with a low chance of error would seem to be the best definition, since most “learning quickly” metrics are dependant on retaining large amounts of information with low exposure- a trait linked to, but not solely coupled with, intelligence. I think most Americans have more pressing issues. It’s where Trotsky and Lenin erred- the proletariat wants three square meals a day, a roof that doesn’t leak, to leave something to his heirs and hopefully have enough left for a few creature comforts. Once one has the luxury to have all that secured, one is free to solve problems and think. Or: Bad damned question, of course a large percentage of people are objectively “stupid” if stupid is defined as “of less than average intelligence,” since intelligence follows a non-symmetric distribution. Obviously, that’s not what the OP meant. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-believe-most-americans-are-stupid/462717.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-believe-most-americans-are-stupid/462717.md?page=3)