Thing is, kids don’t develop ideas like that in a vacuum. Either something he saw, or experienced has inspired that outburst of malevolence, and his parents sound a big part of his problems on the scanty evidence available.
I hope you take this as a compliment… Der Trihs, I am amazed that I can so thoroughly agree with you here.
Yes. I’ve come across enough people who are just plain nasty through and through, and when you look at their histories, they’ve been nasty from the start.
I remember once seeing some afternoon afternoon-tabloid style talk show (Maury Povich or something), and there was this little girl (about 9 or 10) who I think was, for all intents and purposes, evil. I don’t believe that this little girl was sociopathic, as sociopathy is a mental illness that can be treated. Plus, most sociopaths don’t like pain if they can avoid it (read on). No, I think she was just plain evil.
This little girl’s parents were at their wits’ end. She terrorized her siblings (as in, beat the shit out of them, with her fists, with her shoes, with kitchen utensils, with whatever was handy). She had hospitalized each of her siblings on numerous occasions. She beat the shit out of her parents; when they would try to restrain her to protect themselves, she would bite them. All of the doors and windows to their house were locked with two or three locks, because she had tried to run away scores of times (several times per night, ISTR). Whenever her parents would try to discipline her through non-abusive means (time-out, whatever), she (the child) would scream at them to use the belt instead, because it hurt more and she liked it better.
They had tried counseling dozens of times; it never worked because she would either tell the counselor to go fuck himself, or beat the shit out of him, or both. She had been hospitalized multiple times; each time she wound up being put into restraints. Medications worked, to a point; as in, she would be manageable if and only if she were drugged to the point of catatonia.
I watched that TV show simply amazed that a human being (and a child at that) could be rendered so full of hatred; for herself, for others, for her parents. And simultaneously completely incapable of receiving love. Perhaps she had been made this way due to abuse; I don’t know. Her parents swore that they weren’t abusive, but on this point we have nothing more than their word. If they’re telling the truth, then I’m left with no explanation for this girl’s state of mind other than pure evil.
This little girl would probably be 19-20 years old now. Probably in a prison somewhere, I would assume.
Yes, I belive some people are innately evil.
Sociopathy cannot be treated in most causes. In order to treat mental illness, the person has to want to change. Sociopaths are perfectly happy with heir status quo. They don’t see anything wrong with how they feel abou what they do. The rest of the world is at fault for not letting them do what they do.
There is nothing absolute about human beings - no absolutely evil people, and no absolutely good people.
To me, evil exists. I define it as the act of harming others (though not in self-defense or defense of others). At its core, I think evil is the lack of empathy.
Perhaps it can be inborn, but it’s hard for me to imagine a newborn baby with the capacity of evil.
There are certain mental conditions that lend themselves to evil - sociopathy, psychopathy, borderline personality disorder - and as these mental conditions are the direct result of some pathology of the brain, I don’t know how much they can be considered free will. I wish we had more ongoing studies of people with these conditions so that we could understand them better and develop treatments.
Of course, there are those who don’t fall into any diagnostic category. They don’t suffer from any disorder or pathology. They’re aware of the consequences of their actions - that other people get hurt - and they just don’t care.
M. Scott Peck, in his book People of the Lie, tells the story of a teenage boy he counseled. The boy had been sent to him for misbehavior at school. Part of the history was that his older brother had committed suicide - shooting himself with a rifle. Bad enough, right? It took him weeks to gain the boy’s trust, and when he did, he got more of the story.
The following Christmas, his parents gave him one gift. A rifle. Not just the same kind of rifle that his brother used to kill himself, but the very same rifle. When Peck questioned the parents about it, they admitted that, yes, they had, but that was better than not giving him a present, right? They’d been very resistant about bringing the boy to counseling, saying that it “looked bad.” But either they brought him to counseling or he was expelled from his school, and they’d be looking at lots of tuition bills for a private school.
The boy had an aunt he liked, and she’d already offered to take him, but the parents wouldn’t allow it, because it looked bad. IIRC, Peck had to threaten to report them to child welfare and see it go to court before they would relent.
That, my friends, is evil. (And, on the flip side, the aunt and Dr. Peck were shining examples of good.)
No, I don’t believe that there are people born evil. But I think any child is capable of evil. Half-way decent parenting and other civilizing influences on children are what mold them into caring human beings. I don’t believe that consideration for others is the default setting, which is why we spend so much time teaching toddlers to share, not to hit, and that things they do can hurt other people; even then it doesn’t really click until they realize that others might retaliate when abused but respond positively to niceness, so being nice is often rewarded and therefore worthwhile. Without this training in civility, or with the addition of some sort of mental condition, some kids aren’t going to develop empathy for other people.
Skald, as a long-time subscriber to the Dope, I’ve followed your family’s history (I cheered for your wife’s success w/ her ex-employer)
Per your child, I’m not privy to any answers as to why children die. I’ve lost two preborn children, as well as one granddaughter (Eveanna was a Potter’s baby who died a little after six hours after she was born). God knows. I don’t. When I get to Heaven, I’ve lots of questions for anyone who’ll answer; foremost among them have to do with why those I loved the most left Earth soonest. (The old question: God, why did you make misquitoes? will be low on my list)
All I know, Skald, is that God’s in charge, & I’m not.
Love (in Christ, Skald), Phil
I wonder if you mean born evil, or learned evil.
There are certainly evil individuals, its not at all hard to find such folk, here’s a couple,
Jeremy Bamber - shot and killed his adoptive parents, and their daughter, then attempted to frame the latter by staging evidence and then suggesting that this was due to severe depression - his motivation - he killed them all in order to inherit the family estate.
Robert Black - Just one look at his picture screams evil, raped and murdered 3 children, but suspected of many more, his was definately a troubled childhood.
Ian Brady - One of the moors murderers - a sexual sadist, tape recorded one child victim undergoing the torture he was inflicting - so he could play it back for more kicks later - His childhood was fairly mundane, yes he was living in a poor part of town, but then so did thousands of others.
Here are some others, most have mental issues, some have other backgrouind problems, but look at Arthur Hutchinson, or John Duffy.
These are among the worst of our worst, Harold Shipman was of particular note, I doubt he could be described as anything but evil, and from the things I have read, its something he achieved through a process of self development, so although you wouldn’t say he was born that way, he seems to have gone to some lengths to become evil.
We have seen killers of extreme evil, who have lived steady family lives, who simply grew into their role, they were not born evil, but they certainly learned it, you can travel the world and the history of the last century to find them.
In those cases its a process of indoctrination and a change of the rules of what is acceptable.
The term ‘evil’ has religious or hollwood movie connotations for me that make it difficult to discuss without thinking about demons and devils.
But there are people out there who are just ‘bad’. People who take pleasure in other people’s pain, and even more pleasure if they are the cause of the pain. I’ve had the misfortune to meet a couple of people like that. But in my experience, they don’t know that they are bad, in the same way that we think an ‘evil’ person would supposedly understand their evilness. i.e., Dr. Evil knows he is evil, and wants to be evil.
The real life people actually have profound and detailed justifications for what they do, and they consider themselves to be OK people. It’s just my experience though.